1845  Complicated Figures and Dancing at Milongas

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:04:08 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Complicated Figures and Dancing at Milongas

Sergio wrote:

>Riccardo's experience is very common. You learn all sort of complicated
>and very interesting tango steps and figures that require space that is
>not available when you go dancing to a milonga.

>You attempt to perform a complete figure, no way! there is no room. ...
>Now you realize that the type of tango that you learned is not fit to
>be danced on crowded floors. Most likely nobody ever told you that.

I agree with Sergio that learning to execute a complicated figure doesn't
prepare one to dance at successful milongas because successful milongas
are crowded.

If the goal is to dance at milongas, that would leave many questioning the
value the of learning complicated figures. My thought is that the ability
to execute the complicated figures learned in a workshop is the beginning
of learning rather than the end. To develop a mastery of the material in
a figure, the dancer who wants to learn must find ways to cut the figure
into small elements, digest those elements and be able to use the small
elements from which the figure is composed. This is largely accomplished
through focused practice and dancing.

As Robert Hauk wrote:

>Then dance, dance, dance. Dance until you forget who taught you
>what steps. Dance until the steps happen to you because of the
>changing situation around you and the music you are hearing.
>Dance until you don't have to think about dancing any more so
>that you don't just dance, you interpret every song as though
>you were a member of the orchestra. Dance until you don't know
>how to answer when someone asks you what style of tango you dance.

>We can talk forever but if people don't dance we will never know
>more than we know about tango today.

With best regards,
Steve

Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/

home of the style wars... ;-)

Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 01:31:54 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Complicated Figures and Dancing at Milongas

Steve wrote:

>
> I agree with Sergio that learning to execute a complicated figure doesn't
> prepare one to dance at successful milongas because successful milongas
> are crowded.
>

Speaking of taking lessons with stage dancers-
today I participated in a group lesson with Jorge Torres. The best one ever,
but I may just feel like that because my enthousiasm last time he was here
has become a distant memory...
He started off making us practise little steps with little pivots and
crosses alone, then doing a lot of vueltas in place, starting them with feet
crossed in one way, and finishing them with feet crossed the other way, in
the same place.
I found that after all that hard work in Sevilla I still am a raw beginner
at flamenco, but I can at least do Jorge's balancing exercises now, and
enjoy them, ha !
After that he taught us some steps, incorporating these moves. The
interesting thing about those steps was, that they were very intricate,
sometimes I felt like we were trying to play cat's cradle with our legs ; )
but after a while, I noticed that we kept turning and spinning and stepping
over each other's feet, but all that on a space no bigger than 70x70cm or so
!
I started to get an idea what milongueros in Argentina are like, who can do
an interesting dance using up no more than one tile on the floor for
themselves and their girl.
Then he told us to form a ronda and improvise, but before that he warned us:
"Remember, you are dancing inside a ronda, so do not use any backstep in
your salida ! And protect each other's backs, and slow down your partner
when you see him getting too close to people behind him or her."

Over the last years Jorge has become one those rare and precious teachers
who can explain every little technical detail of a step. The lead, how to
turn exactly, how to make space for the partner, why some movements do not
work if you make certain mistakes... He kept putting some couple in the
middle of the floor, and had us all analyse together what mistakes, hardly
visible to the untrained eye, they were making.
"Any questions, any problems?",he would say. "Please, do not hesitate to
ask. Use me, this is your chance ! Don't wait til I'm gone."


After the lesson, we chatted in the bar a bit, and I heard him say to one
girl:"Yo no bailo!"
I asked him what he meant. He told me:"She wants to see me dance. But I
can't do it anymore, I am too old."
"Aaw, Jorge, come on..." Of course, I knew he meant his Forever tango days,
and thought how lucky I am to still have seen him. "No, really, I can't do
it, I have been dancing for 33 years", he said. "33 years ?? At what age did
you start?" (Jorge is still young.) "At the age of three", he said.
Now Jorge has become one those rare and precious teachers who can explain
every little technical detail of a step. The lead, how to turn exactly, how
to make space for the partner, why some movements do not work if you make
certain mistakes... He kept putting some couple in the middle of the floor,
and had us all analyse together what mistakes, hardly visible to the
untrained eye, they were making.
"Any questions?",he would say. "Please, do not hesitate to ask. Use me, this
is your chance ! Don't wait til I'm gone."

Then he left. I sure hope, he will be back in Japan some time soon.

Astrid

Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:14:07 -0700
From: Ricardo Tanturi <tanturi999@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Complicated Figures and Dancing at Milongas

Sergio and Steven wrote about the difficulty of
applying complicated figures from classes to dancing
in milongas. I agree, but let me add this for what
it's worth:

Some years ago Metin Yazir gave a class on dancing
in crowds. One of the exercises was this: dance the
8-count basic in as small a space as you can.
(You can dance it pretty much in place.)
The point, I guess, is that you can dance a lot of
figures, even (by extension), complicated ones, by
adjusting your technique to crowded conditions:
take very small steps or even just change your weight
rather than stepping, and change the direction of
your steps so that you dance in a small circle
rather than progressing. (I mean a really small
circle - rotate around the center between you
and your partner so you are just changing places
with her.)

Another "technique" worth mentioning in passing, is
that the leader should protect his partner. If you
see some moron about to crash into her, make
a quick turn so that you are between the offending
couple and your partner - they crash into your
(presumably strong and solid) back rather than
into your delicate and innocent follower.
(Practice this turning step so you can do it
quickly.)

Hopefully the teachers on the list devote
some part of their classes to dancing in crowds:
adapting figures to a small space, protecting the
partner, figures for small spaces, exercises with
the space restricted by chairs or whatever, etc.)

(Astrid wrote about the same thing, in different
words, in her post about Jorge Torres.)

"Ricardo"

--- Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG> wrote:

> To develop a
> mastery of the material in
> a figure, the dancer who wants to learn must find
> ways to cut the figure
> into small elements, digest those elements and be
> able to use the small
> elements from which the figure is composed. This is
> largely accomplished
> through focused practice and dancing.
>

Astrid wrote:

> He started off making us practise little steps with
> little pivots and
> crosses alone, then doing a lot of vueltas in place,

. > starting them with feet

> crossed in one way, and finishing them with feet

> crossed the other way, in

> the same place.
> After that he taught us some steps, incorporating

these moves. The

> interesting thing about those steps was, that they

were very intricate,

> sometimes I felt like we were trying to play cat's

cradle with our legs ; )

> but after a while, I noticed that we kept turning

and spinning and stepping

> over each other's feet, but all that on a space no

bigger than 70x70cm or so
!