1887 Dancing to vocal tangos
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:12:29 +0400
From: Konstantin Kozlov <kkozlov@MAIL333.COM>
Subject: Dancing to vocal tangos
Hi, List
Greetings from Moscow, Russia. Tom Stermitz gave a nice review
of our festival a month ago (thanks, Tom!), so you get the picture.
Having started DJing recently I was greatly surprised with some
objections from our local tangueros about vocal tangos being meant
for listening and not played(??!) in BA milongas. While lurking on
this list for almost 2 years together with reading a lot about AT
on the web, I never heard the fact and wonder where this belief might
come from.
I personally think that hardly any purely instrumental tango music
would touch your feelings as deeply as, say, Calo/Beron, Tanturi/Castillo,
D'Agostino/Vargas and some other orchestra/singer pairs from the
Golden Age. Of course, I am not some kind of vocals fanatic and prefer
music selection with about 50/50 of each genre (I'm biased towards
1940s in general - close embrace and all the stuff, you know :-))
I am aware of some of the restrictions like:
- Gardel is meant for listening (and Goyeneche is too, imho)
- some of the lyrics speak about things too grievous (death or the
like). The rule here is simple - see if you would dance it, if the
song is translated into your native tongue
Otherwise, if the music is danceable, the singer is an additional
instrument in the orchestra. So why the heck not.
I would appreciate list members to share their views on the subject
Best regards,
Konstantin mailto:kkozlov@mail333.com
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:01:28 +0200
From: Peter Bengtson <peter.bengtson@MUSIKELIT.NU>
Subject: Re: Dancing to vocal tangos
Isn't the idea of not dancing to vocal tangos a misunderstanding by
some present-day tango dancers of the Golden Age custom of not dancing
to LIVE performances of vocal tangos, i.e. when a great singer was
physically present?
/ Peter Bengtson
On måndag, okt 6, 2003, at 14:12 Europe/Stockholm, Konstantin Kozlov
wrote:
> Hi, List
>
> Greetings from Moscow, Russia. Tom Stermitz gave a nice review
> of our festival a month ago (thanks, Tom!), so you get the picture.
>
> Having started DJing recently I was greatly surprised with some
> objections from our local tangueros about vocal tangos being meant
> for listening and not played(??!) in BA milongas. While lurking on
> this list for almost 2 years together with reading a lot about AT
> on the web, I never heard the fact and wonder where this belief might
> come from.
> I personally think that hardly any purely instrumental tango music
> would touch your feelings as deeply as, say, Calo/Beron,
> Tanturi/Castillo,
> D'Agostino/Vargas and some other orchestra/singer pairs from the
> Golden Age. Of course, I am not some kind of vocals fanatic and prefer
> music selection with about 50/50 of each genre (I'm biased towards
> 1940s in general - close embrace and all the stuff, you know :-))
>
> I am aware of some of the restrictions like:
> - Gardel is meant for listening (and Goyeneche is too, imho)
> - some of the lyrics speak about things too grievous (death or the
> like). The rule here is simple - see if you would dance it, if the
> song is translated into your native tongue
>
> Otherwise, if the music is danceable, the singer is an additional
> instrument in the orchestra. So why the heck not.
>
> I would appreciate list members to share their views on the subject
>
> Best regards,
> Konstantin mailto:kkozlov@mail333.com
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:43:45 -0700
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Dancing to vocal tangos
Konstantin,
Vocal tangos are very danceable and preferred because of the "extra
feeling" the voice adds. I think you summarize it very well:
"I am aware of some of the restrictions like:
- Gardel is meant for listening (and Goyeneche is too, imho)
- some of the lyrics speak about things too grievous (death or the
like). The rule here is simple - see if you would dance it, if the
song is translated into your native tongue
Otherwise, if the music is danceable, the singer is an additional
instrument in the orchestra"
I must say that I don't understand the "rule" about lyrics too grievous,
why not dance it if it has a danceable rhythm?
In Latin America there is a huge difference between music for dancing
and music for listening. I see a lot of people in the US that don't
understand this difference, and therefore is very difficult or
impossible to dance when they DJ. I also notice that in tango
communities where they play a lot of "listening" music at the milongas,
the dance level does not improve over time.
I look forward to your next Moscow fest, I am already saving for the
trip. I could not go this year because of work.
Hope to see you in Portland, I hear that we are expecting 400 to 500
dancers from out of town. Sweet.
Regards,
Carlos Rojas
Portland, OR
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 4:12 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] Dancing to vocal tangos
Hi, List
Greetings from Moscow, Russia. Tom Stermitz gave a nice review
of our festival a month ago (thanks, Tom!), so you get the picture.
Having started DJing recently I was greatly surprised with some
objections from our local tangueros about vocal tangos being meant
for listening and not played(??!) in BA milongas. While lurking on
this list for almost 2 years together with reading a lot about AT
on the web, I never heard the fact and wonder where this belief might
come from.
I personally think that hardly any purely instrumental tango music
would touch your feelings as deeply as, say, Calo/Beron,
Tanturi/Castillo,
D'Agostino/Vargas and some other orchestra/singer pairs from the
Golden Age. Of course, I am not some kind of vocals fanatic and prefer
music selection with about 50/50 of each genre (I'm biased towards
1940s in general - close embrace and all the stuff, you know :-))
I am aware of some of the restrictions like:
- Gardel is meant for listening (and Goyeneche is too, imho)
- some of the lyrics speak about things too grievous (death or the
like). The rule here is simple - see if you would dance it, if the
song is translated into your native tongue
Otherwise, if the music is danceable, the singer is an additional
instrument in the orchestra. So why the heck not.
I would appreciate list members to share their views on the subject
Best regards,
Konstantin mailto:kkozlov@mail333.com
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:55:47 -0700
From: Kos Zahariev <Kos.Zahariev@EC.GC.CA>
Subject: Re: Dancing to vocal tangos
>I am aware of some of the restrictions like:
> - Gardel is meant for listening (and Goyeneche is too, imho)
I like tangos with a singer, and I like to play them as a DJ, with a few
limitations. The tangos with singing that I would play would generally have
singing start between 1:00 and 1:30 minutes into the song, last for about a
minute, and then the tango finishes the way it started - as an instrumental
piece. Sort of like the estribillistas except that I am not only refering to
the late 1920s.
However, I can't stand tangos with 'club' sound (if I am using the right
term), where the singer is very much in the foreground, sings all through the
number from start to finish, (might) vary the tempo, and there is a heavy amount
of reverb added to the vocals - that would be a lot of 1960s and beyond
material. Examples are the last few songs on the Troilo y sus Cantores disk (BMG
88870; RCA Victor 100 Anos series).
I am also careful with singer stars from the 1930s (and later?) who, while not
having this awful reverb added and not so much in the foreground, still sing
throughout the whole number (that's not bad in itself) and might vary
tempo. With these, I have to choose every song individually - certain
Mercedes Simone can be danced to, some other numbers have too much tempo
variation to be suitable for dancing.
To sum up, in playing tango numbers with singing, I avoid, from worse to bad:
o vocals with heavy reverb added;
o singer dominating in the mix, very much in the foreground;
o singer varying the tempo;
Regards,
Konstantin, a.k.a El Búlgaro
(not to be confused with Konstantin from Moscow who started this thread :-) )
