3382 Dear Jean-Pierre
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 02:12:58 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Dear Jean-Pierre
Dear Jean-Pierre,
I do not have any objection about anyone giving
his opinion in a clear proper form under his own name or under any
pseudonym.
But here we have a prominent member of our tango community, to whom I give
credit for creating a useful, practical web page and periodical, for
teaching tango, organizing fairly important events and also for originating
a Tango forum which is probably the second most important one in existence
at the present time.
Achievements for which anyone could be proud of, who on the other hand, and
I understand nobody is perfect, a few years ago as a member of our list
abused, denigrated, humiliated and ridiculed anyone that showed some degree
of spark or dissent. My feeling at the time was that he should have used his
position of authority to educate, guide, assist in a proper, polite form. We
had many private, heated discussions then(I keep them on file). He decided
to leave our list and founded his own , to which I was invited to
contribute . It is supposed to be an unmoderated forum where there is total
freedom to express yourself...yet my privileges to participate were
unilaterally terminated without too much fundament...but then you know how
abusive I could be.:))
He has been absent from Tango-L for all these years and now (history repeats
itself) he reappears using pseudonyms, not to educate, not to assist or to
guide but to create hatred and resentment among the members of our group
with messages full of anger, in a very aggressive form that most of us are
unable to understand. I still do not know the reason he is so angry about.
He sent messages , modifying slightly the name of a member to insult another
contributor.
He was disrespectful to an important lady or our group, making fun of her
age (called her "viejita") and implied that she had some degree of
alcoholism (.."go easy on the margaritas"). He sent an Easter congratulation
note wishing us "Muchos huevos" ( meaning many
easter eggs, but... in vulgar Argentine slang huevos=testicles), etc, etc.
Then if I urinate in the toilet, in the bathroom this is proper but if I
execute the same action from the top of the springboard into the public
swimming pool, this would be not. There is a place and a time for
everything; this is a tango forum, I am sure we can find other venues where
to discuss politics.
Summary: If you have an opinion send it the proper way, if you sign it with
your own name it will have more strength and authority. I wish to invite you
and your teacher to explain his points of view more in detail, so that we
can all understand. I apologize in advance for being somewhat slow.
Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:34:41 -0700
From: Jean-Pierre Sighe <jpsighe@SIGHES.COM>
Subject: Re: Dear Jean-Pierre
Sergio,
Alberto Paz is a very articulate person. He certainly does not need me to
defend him. Please believe me.
Ok...a couple of points :
1/ Someone advised the list to not take things too seriously. I agree with
that.
2/ Let's remember that in our online "conversations" we are actually using a
very "cold" medium called the computer. We do not have the facial
expressions... the tone of the voice...the hands movements and
expressions...of the other person to fully comprehend the message conveyed
to us. We should therefore be slow in jumping to the conclusion that some
body has insulted us.
In a normal conversation where we are face to face, I might say : "gee! You
talk like an idiot!". If I say it smiling or chuckling or laughing with no
aggressiveness, you won't get mad or feel insulted because of all these
other components of my persona accompanying the message... In an online
communication, some people might take sharp humor as an insult...Helas!
3/ May be I should offer myself as the "name-calling" receiver for 6 months
(automatically renewable if I'm still alive :)). That way, people can truly
say what they want to say with no fear of offending someone...:)
Jean-Pierre
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 7:13 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] Dear Jean-Pierre
Dear Jean-Pierre,
I do not have any objection about anyone giving
his opinion in a clear proper form under his own name or under any
pseudonym.
But here we have a prominent member of our tango community, to whom I give
credit for creating a useful, practical web page and periodical, for
teaching tango, organizing fairly important events and also for originating
a Tango forum which is probably the second most important one in existence
at the present time.
Achievements for which anyone could be proud of, who on the other hand, and
I understand nobody is perfect, a few years ago as a member of our list
abused, denigrated, humiliated and ridiculed anyone that showed some degree
of spark or dissent. My feeling at the time was that he should have used his
position of authority to educate, guide, assist in a proper, polite form. We
had many private, heated discussions then(I keep them on file). He decided
to leave our list and founded his own , to which I was invited to
contribute . It is supposed to be an unmoderated forum where there is total
freedom to express yourself...yet my privileges to participate were
unilaterally terminated without too much fundament...but then you know how
abusive I could be.:))
He has been absent from Tango-L for all these years and now (history repeats
itself) he reappears using pseudonyms, not to educate, not to assist or to
guide but to create hatred and resentment among the members of our group
with messages full of anger, in a very aggressive form that most of us are
unable to understand. I still do not know the reason he is so angry about.
He sent messages , modifying slightly the name of a member to insult another
contributor.
He was disrespectful to an important lady or our group, making fun of her
age (called her "viejita") and implied that she had some degree of
alcoholism (.."go easy on the margaritas"). He sent an Easter congratulation
note wishing us "Muchos huevos" ( meaning many
easter eggs, but... in vulgar Argentine slang huevos=testicles), etc, etc.
Then if I urinate in the toilet, in the bathroom this is proper but if I
execute the same action from the top of the springboard into the public
swimming pool, this would be not. There is a place and a time for
everything; this is a tango forum, I am sure we can find other venues where
to discuss politics.
Summary: If you have an opinion send it the proper way, if you sign it with
your own name it will have more strength and authority. I wish to invite you
and your teacher to explain his points of view more in detail, so that we
can all understand. I apologize in advance for being somewhat slow.
Keep unwanted email out.
Visit www.spamsubtract.com for more information.
