1107 Discussion of the war
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:54:59 -0500
From: Steve Freeman <steven.f.freeman@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Discussion of the war
I would not agree to avoid discussing of these events. Annette and
Wolfgang's posting was written directly to the group and
well-articulated. Everything they say is correct, including the
"demagogic, onesided and brainwashing coverage in most of the US mass
media."
For many people on this list, tango represents the sole international
connection, and for that reason, it is very important that Annette and
Wolfgang express the outrage of the world at what our administration has
done.
Tangueros are an exceptionally cosmopolitan group. (Consider that only
15% of US adults even have a passport.) We are also, on average, far
more educated. I think it's important that we as a group understand the
full impact of our government's actions, and if we are so-disposed, to
try to do something about it, if only to help inform the majority of
Americans who have no exposure to international opinion and unbiased
information.
Steve Freeman
Philadelphia PA
-----Original Message-----
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:08:25 -0500
From: Reuven <tango@THEBEST1.COM>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
Without addressing the underlying issues mentioned here, let's stick with
what this mailing list was created for - TANGO. We have enough
bombardment of information and opinions everywhere else about the war and
politics, and we need a place to be free from all these. Any interesting
Milongas are going on?
Reuven
On Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:54:59 -0500, "Steve Freeman"
<steven.f.freeman@VERIZON.NET> said:
> I would not agree to avoid discussing of these events. Annette and
> Wolfgang's posting was written directly to the group and
> well-articulated. Everything they say is correct, including the
> "demagogic, onesided and brainwashing coverage in most of the US mass
> media."
>
> For many people on this list, tango represents the sole international
> connection, and for that reason, it is very important that Annette and
> Wolfgang express the outrage of the world at what our administration has
> done.
>
> Tangueros are an exceptionally cosmopolitan group. (Consider that only
> 15% of US adults even have a passport.) We are also, on average, far
> more educated. I think it's important that we as a group understand the
> full impact of our government's actions, and if we are so-disposed, to
> try to do something about it, if only to help inform the majority of
> Americans who have no exposure to international opinion and unbiased
> information.
>
> Steve Freeman
> Philadelphia PA
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
> [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of St. Thomas, Carlene
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:20
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] TANGO-L Digest - 15 Mar 2003 to 17 Mar 2003
> (#2003-69)
>
>
> This is in response to Annette and Wolfgang's A-List posting:
>
> How about we all agree NOT to use the A and L-Lists (and tango
> especially) as a political soapbox? Let's keep our pro-war and anti-war
> views to ourselves. For those of us who look to tango as a way to
> express and enjoy ourselves, the last thing we want to deal with are the
> politics of war.
>
> PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, let's reserve the lists for tango ONLY.
>
> Tango bliss to all,
>
> Carlene
> Portland, Oregon USA
>
> *************
>
> A SPECIAL NOTE TO ALL OUR PAST AND FUTURE TANGO-GUESTS FROM THE U.S.A.
> > AND GREAT BRITAIN:
> >
> > Tonight the Bush administration, supported by the British government,
> > is going to break international law launching a war against Iraq. This
>
> > is happening without the legitimation from the UN security council and
> against
> > the will of the majority of the world's population.
> > To justify this act of aggression Bush and his helpers have lied, have
> given
> > false evidence and manipulated facts. They exerted pressure on their
> allies
> > and the entire community of nations in a way unheard of before.
> > Instead of accepting their responsibility as superpower to keep peace
> > and follow democratic rules the Bush administration has obstacled a
> > peaceful disarmament of Iraq through the work of the UN-inspectors.
> > Bush, Blair, Aznar and all those who support them prefer to sacrifice
> > thousands of innocent lives. We are deeply shocked and disgusted by
> > this abuse of military power. We are
> > even more appalled by the demagogic, onesided and brainwashing
> > coverage in most of the US mass media. We have many good friends in
> > the United States and Great Britain and surely
> > are not anti-American or anti-British.
> > To all our friends in the United States and Great Britain we send the
> > warmest greetings and look forward to welcome them here in Italy, this
> year
> > or some time later. All those however who support this war should be
> > aware that they will mainly face a negative reaction when coming to
> > Europe, to Italy and to La Rogaia.
> >
> > Annette and Wolfgang
> > La Rogaia
> > Castel Rigone
> > I - 06065 Passignano sul Trasimeno (PG)
> > Italia
> > Tel/ Fax 0039-075-845457
> > e-Mail: info@rogaia.de
>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 12:38:34 -0800
From: Marisa Holmes <mariholmes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
I'm with Reuven. I think it's important to discuss
the war, and I think it's important to pay attention
to the opinions of the worldwide community. But when
you sign onto a list with a given focus, you have
entered into an agreement with the other members of
the list to discuss that topic. Suppose you were
reading and contributing to a list that was organized
to discuss international politics, and I kept posting
about tango - would you welcome my postings? To offer
a tango analogy, suppose I came to your regularly
scheduled milonga and kept playing swing music on a
boombox. Nothing the matter with the music - it's
just out of place there.
It seems to me that our agreement is to discuss one
particular topic that is important to all of us, and
not the hundreds of topics that are important to some
(or even all) of us.
Marisa
--- Reuven <tango@THEBEST1.COM> wrote:
> Without addressing the underlying issues mentioned
> here, let's stick with
> what this mailing list was created for - TANGO. ...
>
> Reuven
>
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:27:42 -0500
From: Varvara Kountouzi <varvarak@POBOX.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
I agree with Steve. I understand that this is a focused list, but this is
war, for Christ's sake! don't you think it deserves an exception? we cannot
be oblivious to what's going on and think only about the 'new milongas
around'. I vote for the labelling of messages about the war in the subject
line so that the carefree folks can delete them and go on living their
merry lives.
Barbara
At 02:54 PM 3/20/2003 -0500, Steve Freeman wrote:
>I would not agree to avoid discussing of these events. Annette and
>Wolfgang's posting was written directly to the group and
>well-articulated. Everything they say is correct, including the
>"demagogic, onesided and brainwashing coverage in most of the US mass
>media."
>
>For many people on this list, tango represents the sole international
>connection, and for that reason, it is very important that Annette and
>Wolfgang express the outrage of the world at what our administration has
>done.
>
>Tangueros are an exceptionally cosmopolitan group. (Consider that only
>15% of US adults even have a passport.) We are also, on average, far
>more educated. I think it's important that we as a group understand the
>full impact of our government's actions, and if we are so-disposed, to
>try to do something about it, if only to help inform the majority of
>Americans who have no exposure to international opinion and unbiased
>information.
>
>Steve Freeman
>Philadelphia PA
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
>[mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of St. Thomas, Carlene
>Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2003 12:20
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] TANGO-L Digest - 15 Mar 2003 to 17 Mar 2003
>(#2003-69)
>
>
>This is in response to Annette and Wolfgang's A-List posting:
>
>How about we all agree NOT to use the A and L-Lists (and tango
>especially) as a political soapbox? Let's keep our pro-war and anti-war
>views to ourselves. For those of us who look to tango as a way to
>express and enjoy ourselves, the last thing we want to deal with are the
>politics of war.
>
>PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, let's reserve the lists for tango ONLY.
>
>Tango bliss to all,
>
>Carlene
>Portland, Oregon USA
>
>*************
>
> A SPECIAL NOTE TO ALL OUR PAST AND FUTURE TANGO-GUESTS FROM THE U.S.A.
> > AND GREAT BRITAIN:
> >
> > Tonight the Bush administration, supported by the British government,
> > is going to break international law launching a war against Iraq. This
>
> > is happening without the legitimation from the UN security council and
>against
> > the will of the majority of the world's population.
> > To justify this act of aggression Bush and his helpers have lied, have
>given
> > false evidence and manipulated facts. They exerted pressure on their
>allies
> > and the entire community of nations in a way unheard of before.
> > Instead of accepting their responsibility as superpower to keep peace
> > and follow democratic rules the Bush administration has obstacled a
> > peaceful disarmament of Iraq through the work of the UN-inspectors.
> > Bush, Blair, Aznar and all those who support them prefer to sacrifice
> > thousands of innocent lives. We are deeply shocked and disgusted by
> > this abuse of military power. We are
> > even more appalled by the demagogic, onesided and brainwashing
> > coverage in most of the US mass media. We have many good friends in
> > the United States and Great Britain and surely
> > are not anti-American or anti-British.
> > To all our friends in the United States and Great Britain we send the
> > warmest greetings and look forward to welcome them here in Italy, this
>year
> > or some time later. All those however who support this war should be
> > aware that they will mainly face a negative reaction when coming to
> > Europe, to Italy and to La Rogaia.
> >
> > Annette and Wolfgang
> > La Rogaia
> > Castel Rigone
> > I - 06065 Passignano sul Trasimeno (PG)
> > Italia
> > Tel/ Fax 0039-075-845457
> > e-Mail: info@rogaia.de
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:32:16 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
I am with Carlene, Daisy, Reuven and Marisa. I think Tango-L should be
reserved for the discussion of Tango and Tango-A should be reserved for
the announcement of tango events and tango products.
Whether the remarks about war are well articulated, correct or more
important than tango is really beside the point. Because tango dancers
tend to be more cosmopolitan, they are quite likely to be seeking out the
information necessary to understand the full impact of actions undertaken
by their own government as well as other governments--and they are sure to
have used sources that are much more informative on the subject than
Tango-A or Tango-L. In fact, one might suspect the relatively low number
of postings to Tango-L in recent weeks owes partly to the fact that
people's attentions are appropriately elsewhere.
In addition, tango (and its more cosmopolitan participants) can build
bridges across political and cultural differences, whereas the politically
motivated shouting about the war across Atlantic has mostly polarized
people. Comments about who would face a negative reaction or might be
unwelcome at given tango events serves to further that polarization, and
certainly cannot be seen as very cosmopolitan.
With best regards and many happy tangos for all,
Steve
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:51:59 -0600
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
Friends,
When I write to you, I assume you are bright, talented, and beautiful. I
have rarely been wrong about that assumption when I have met any of you
personally. If I wanted to influence current affairs or bemoan them, I
would not choose this group as a forum. Without ignoring the ugliness in
the world around us, our mutual understandings are artistic: music and
movement.
Your opinions and emotions may have company here but they will have little
influence. I suggest you send your thoughts on current affairs someplace
where they can do more good.
That which only your hearts can express, take it onto the floor and dance
it.
Sadly,
Frank in Minneapolis
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:06:21 -0800
From: Rick FromPdx <bugs1959bunny@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
This discussion could be very germane to Tango, if it turns out this is the beginning of the end. No more Tango-L or Tango dancing? I dunnoo... I don't feel good about this. Sometimes I don't want to know people's political views, cuz I don't view them the same afterwards, & the v/v is probably true. Other civilizations have bit the dust, sometimes I wonder what's so special about this one.
Reporter: What do you think of western civilization?
Mahatma Gandhi: I think it would be a good idea.
PS: Swing music is most welcome at our mixed-music milonga on Wed nights.
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 23:38:59 +0100
From: "Ralph J. Hangleiter" <ralph.hangleiter@WEB.DE>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
Hi,
I am with Varvara and Steve.
If we say this group is about "all things Tango", and there surely have
been several discussions already about how external influences
effect one's dance, then this subject should be allowed to be discussed.
If somebody might not join in, he should be well able to do that by
reading the subject line.
If discussing helps coping with the situation, then those opinions and
emotions are doing some good.
Kind regards from Munich, Germany
Ralph
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 15:13:36 -0800
From: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
Last night I entered the milonga. I had just listened
to a translation of a speach given by Saddam Hussein
to the people of Iraq. I was deeply troubled. I
spotted my friend across the room and went over to
her. We embraced. We talked a bit about what we had
both heard. And then we smiled at one another, the
same thought crossing our minds as I told her what a
pleasure and comfort it was to walk into this room
full of love, to be embraced by everyone and to spend
these moments with people I admire creating something
beautiful.
What better way to create some positive energy in this
world than to gather together, as artists, as dancers
and to share our feelings, through movement. To dance
tango is to have complete acceptance of another
person, to collaborate, and to find the beauty within
your partner.
May each of you find peace in your dance,
Rose
Portland, OR
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 18:13:46 EST
From: Judy Tobin <TAngeltouch@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
If tango is all about ones experience of life through the dance, how on
earth do you separate out ones feeling of sadness. My hat is off to anyone
who can block off unpleasant emotions while tapping into the rich environment
that creates art. Tango and it's music is about life....all of it. The good
the bad and the ugly. War is ugly but still a part of our lives today. Sad to
say.
Judy
Mississauga
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 16:17:09 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
Steve Freeman writes:
> I would not agree to avoid discussing of these events. Annette
> and Wolfgang's posting was written directly to the group and
> well-articulated.
That it was well-articulated is completely irrelevant.
> Everything they say is correct,
Without necessarily disagreeing with your opinion, it
is still an opinion, and hardly a fact.
> For many people on this list, tango represents the sole
> international connection,
That's *their* problem.
> and for that reason, it is very important that Annette and
> Wolfgang express the outrage of the world at what our
> administration has done.
Oh I see. You and Annette and Wolfgang are the United
States of this group, and have decided that we all need to be
exposed to your imperial perception of political correctness
and "liberated" from our ignorance, whether we like it or not,
and most distressingly, even though this is a group whose
charter expressly forbids non-tango discussion.
I haven't seen such a pompous attitude since...well,
since George W. Bush decided Iraq needed to be "liberated."
> I think it's important that we as a group understand the
> full impact of our government's actions,
And clearly what *you* think is far more important than
something as trivial as a group charter. You're the
George W. Bush of Tango-L and those of us who stand for the
will of the group via the no non-tango discussion charter
are France. How fascinating. And how utterly hypocritical.
Huck
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 17:18:46 -0700
From: David Exum <dexum@SPINN.NET>
Subject: Discussion of the war
I agree with Stephen. I don't want a discussion of the war on this forum.
David
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:03:35 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
Now many of you may hate me, but I am with Varvara, Steve and Ralph. I am,
after all, European.
And I what I have observed this morning on tango-l, is
A: a flood of postings after almost complete silence for a few days
and B: the fact that, under the pretense of discussing whether tango-l is
only for tango or not, some people are having their opinions enter through
the back door, while writing a long, angry posting about those, who "abused"
tango-l" for expressing their political opinion.
My impression is, some of you feel, that political discussion is
inappropriate (ludicrous, arrogant, ill-informed, you-name-it) in those
cases where the US-administration is criticised. This must be forbidden
immediately, Tango-l is for tango ! Now, who is being hypocritical ?
As Rose and Judy already pointed out, dancing tango-l brings up your
feelings. Sometimes, tango particularly lends itself to experiencing and
expressing an inner sadness, or grief one is going through. And holding
another person in your arms during those times really helps.
I suggest, that those who cannot stand being faced with any criticism of the
US and the behaviour of it's present administration, take their propaganda
elsewhere, and those who'd rather close their eyes and ears to what is going
on in the world live it up at "any interesting milongas going on" instead of
the internet, but let's not turn Tango-L into a site suitable for the three
monkeys (ears closed, eyes closed, mouth closed, legs allowed to move). It
would feel ludicrous to pretend that one can just dance on merrily, thinking
about nothing, at a time like this. Tango is not tango with a certain amount
of emotional depth.
Astrid
a German living in Tokyo
------
> Hi,
> I am with Varvara and Steve.
>
> If we say this group is about "all things Tango", and there surely have
> been several discussions already about how external influences
> effect one's dance, then this subject should be allowed to be discussed.
> If somebody might not join in, he should be well able to do that by
> reading the subject line.
>
> If discussing helps coping with the situation, then those opinions and
> emotions are doing some good.
>
> Kind regards from Munich, Germany
> Ralph
>
>
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 01:13:40 EST
From: Randy & Lydia <TangoFantasy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war - "Milongas going on"
On 3/20/2003 3:09:41 PM EST "Reuven"
<tango@THEBEST1.COM> wrote:
<Without addressing the underlying issues mentioned here, let's stick with
<what this mailing list was created for - TANGO. We have enough
<bombardment of information and opinions everywhere else about the war and
<politics, and we need a place to be free from all these. Any interesting
<Milongas are going on?
I agree with what Reuven stated in his message and Yes, there is "The
Milonga del Pueblo" on Calle Ocho in Miami, Florida. We have beautiful
weather here "Summer time".
This Saturday we are celebrating the birthday of our favorite Tango Singer,
internationally known Dario Roca. He will sing beautiful Tangos for us. We
will have coffee and a big cake for all and other refreshments. Authentic
Argentine "empanadas" by Gustavo, the best in the country.
Come and dance at our Milonga, take a trip to Miami and enjoy the wonderful
weather and tango the night away at 6255 S.W. 8th Street. Call us for
reservations. Tel. (305) 266-1897.
Wonderful Milongas to all,
Lydia
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 01:27:49 EST
From: "Lydia H." <TangoLady@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
I also agree with Stephen Brown, Carlene, Daisy, Reuven and Marisa.
Listeros, there are many other forums that have been developed to discuss
war, this one is for Tango and should be respected by all participants.
Thank you.
Respectful and Just Forums to all,
Lydia Henson
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:15:09 +0200
From: Aydogan Arkis <aydoganarkis@SUPERONLINE.COM>
Subject: From the land that is close to the war - was Discussion of the war
Dear Friends,
As another perspective from Turkey, I think we should stop
discussing war. Considering the last 10 days E-mail flow here,
I cannot imagine what this list would be discussing if we had
included the war among the subjects.
What would have you been discussing; How ugly is the war ? How
ugly were the politicians ? Do you think war is the only ugly
think nowadays ? Do you think Bush, Blair, Erdogan, Saddam are
the only bad/good guys of politics/governments ? Do you *still*
need to discuss these ? NO !
Do not tell me, who is pushing how much on the war. You cannot
go anywhere by discussing how ugly the war is. War does not
mean only the weapon. War is relative; to me it may be the
tactics done in EU, or the tactics in Cyprus, or tactics in UN,
or tactics in Afghanistan, or tactics in Bosnia... The war is
everywhere. So, which war are going to discuss ?
One of the most important victories of the war makers/planners
is to see people discussing their executions in irrelevant
places. This would indicate how spread they were, how
influential they were.
Tango, like the other arts, is a tool to get rid of the
burdens. It is a tool to dance the life. So if you want to
discuss war in tango, do not ! Just dance it !
Try to devote your next milonga "against the war", with your
music, with your dance...
I do not want, Bush, Erdogan, Saddam, Blair, to interrupt my
tango. I already hear hell of a news, pictures, interviews on
them. So, please keep them away from here.
Yours,
Aydogan
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 20:48:27 -0800
From: Andrew Allison <Andrew@AALLISON.COM>
Subject: Discussion of the war
The list usage rules are very clear: "All articles should be related to the
Argentine Tango or a directly related dance or musical form." Clearly,
discussion of the war or the Bush administration are off topic and
inappropriate. However, the anti- crowd, as usual, argue that their issue
is much too important to be governed by the normal rules of behavior. So
let's get a few things straight:
First, Germany and the Germans, having drenched Europe in blood twice in
the past century, lack the moral authority to participate in the debate,
and should have the decency to keep the opinions to which they are, of
course, entitled to themselves.
Second, as Mark Twain put it: "France is a country with no summer, no
winter and no morals. . . . Mostly it is governed by prostitutes." Anybody
who doubts the truth of this should consider that France's interest in Iraq
is solely that it provides 22% of the goods imported by the current regime.
Chirac's statement at the EU meeting today that he would never agree to a
US/UK-led interim government (the poor fool apparently still not
recognizing that the US and UK no longer have the slightest interest in his
opinion on this or any other subject) is based solely on the fear that this
might change.
Third, if Neville Chamberlain had had the intestinal fortitude demonstrated
by Tony Blair and George Bush, instead of that of his natural successor,
Chirac, WW-II could have been over in two months, saving of the order of 15
million lives.
Fourth, the evidence that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction is
overwhelming, and comes not from the Bush administration but from the UN
inspectors, who keep unearthing evidence of the supposed destruction of
weapons which Iraq has sworn it doesn't have.
Fifth, ask the Kurds about Saddam's willingness to use such weapons, on his
own people for crying out loud. And the Iraqis as a whole how many of them
he has killed.
Finally, hysterical charges of propaganda and falsehood are easy to make
but, in the absence of the evidence to back them up, not worth the powder
to blow them to hell.
Now, can we all please get back to Tango.
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 22:59:14 -0800
From: Rick FromPdx <bugs1959bunny@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
The US is not an innocent country & it is duplicitous to suggest otherwise. Ask the indigenous people of North & South America, Africa & other places. As well as people in SE Asia, Central America & on & on. We can't have it both ways.
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2003 10:48:11 -0500
From: Reuven <tango@THEBEST1.COM>
Subject: Is it Tango? Was - Re: [TANGO-L] Discussion of the war
Forgive me Rick, but exactly in which way is your posting related to
Tango??????
Reuven
On Fri, 21 Mar 2003 22:59:14 -0800, "Rick FromPdx"
<bugs1959bunny@YAHOO.COM> said:
> The US is not an innocent country & it is duplicitous to suggest
> otherwise. Ask the indigenous people of North & South America, Africa &
> other places. As well as people in SE Asia, Central America & on & on.
> We can't have it both ways.
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2003 23:21:13 -0700
From: SkiNDance for Tango-L <skindance@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Discussion of the war
The Italian tangueros of La Rogaia had a moral obligation to issue a
warning to those visiting Europe may suffer repercussions based on their
government's pro-war actions. Some of their commentary would seem
explanation for their warning, but it was clearly excessive. One
sympathizes with the Italian tangueros in breaching the Tango-L code
(but hardly being the ones to set a precedence in so doing), when they
have such difficulty
understanding the official US government position on the war. After all,
if the US is the leading world democracy, doesn't this government
position reflect the attitudes of its people? The answer is simply: the
times have changed. One understands the need of some to vent their
frustration. Nevertheless, it would seem that those who wanted to comment
on the war could have done so by private email rather than through
Tango-L, reenforcing the breach!
What offends me most in this and related threads are those who castigate
others for their war remarks and then proceed to carry on about their own
war beliefs.
I am especially incensed when a respondent -clearly historically
challenged- sophomorically commented on the history of the last century
in order to denigrate certain European governments, who recently chose
not to be supportive of the US. One possessing the requisite expertise
would never have demonstrated such extreme insensitivity for subject
abuse and for unnecessarily insulting European tangueros..
The hypocritical respondent severely abused his list privileges.
