3100 Elusive Nuevo style
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 06:16:34 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Elusive Nuevo style
To summarize the Nuevo discussion so far:
There is no Nuevo Tango dance style because a) the Nuevo is teaching
approach, not the dance style, b) the dance styles of Nuevo system
instructors are too diverse to fall under one style and c) everyone is using
crossfeet steps anyway.
However if there were Nuevo Tango dance style it would be concerned more
with placement of partner's feet than with connection with a partner to the
point where embrace would be flexible enough to open to execute especially
exciting back sacada. It would also seem to be less concerned subtle rhythm
changes than traditional tango. The hypothetical Nuevo tango dancers would
go to Fusion Tango milongas and share there joy on Tango-L (hey Joe, virtual
you, I went to authentic milonga on the same day and was satisfied too; do
dance with men if that s your thing; in fact from the written above it
follows that Nuevo tango is not very intimate dance really, so dance your
heart away with men even if it is not your thing).
Cheers, Oleh K.
https://TangoSpring.com
PS Another thing about Fusion Tango milongas (I wrote about it before I
believe). Swing music is bouncy. That's why Swing, Lindy Hop and Charleston
are bouncy dances too. Why force smooth tango steps to swing music?
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:49:08 -0600
From: el turco <shusheta@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
Oleh Kovalchuke summarized the Tango Nuevo discussion in his latest
message, although i agree with him about the preservation of
authenticity of argentine tango, I should say that The Tango Nuevo
systems are NOT only training methodologies but also a CHOICE for any
tango dancers who may interest trying new moves for themselves on the
dance floor.
Actually we all do use Tango Nuevo systems when we are practicing time
to time. However some of us choose to dance by taking advantage of
"tango nuevo" systems.
It's true that "Tango Nuevo" is becoming a style of tango dancing at milongas.
- When we watch people dancing at milonga, it's easy to distinguish
who is using Tango Nuevo systems while they are dancing. There are
certain number of characteristics of TangoNuevo that you can notice on
the dance floor, such as using salsa arms, loosen-shifted frame,
legato-smooth and large steps mixed with staccato- cut and short
steps, more pauses than traditional, frequent transitions between
close embrace and open embrace etc. but the most important
characteristic is for me personalized dance style as result of using
TangoNuevo. When you go to milonga if there is any Tango Nuevo dancer
(of course good ones) watch them, you will see that each Tango Nuevo
dancer is dancing unique.( if they understand the idea behind the
Tango Nuevo systems of course). Tango Nuevo dancers don't have
"leader's blind spot syndrome" when they are dancing in close embrace.
The Tango Nuevo systems became a style due to denial and anger against
it. Some dancers preferred to employ TangoNuevo systems. Some people
don't like to see them on the dance floor, people call them "nuevo
kids", yes, this is sad but true. Why do we care about other's dance
style? Why criticize them if everybody is following "Milonga
etiquette".
In a narrow minded and old fashioned learning environment, TangoNuevo
systems offer numerous possibilities not limitations (e.g "leader's
blind spot syndrome", and "ocho cortado").
However Tango is a living culture, hence it evolves. The essence of
Tango is in you not in your favorite teacher's style. I strongly
believe that Tango Nuevo presents great opportunities for everybody
who wants to create their own dance style.
( Fight Commonism!)
Best Regards
Burak Ozkosem
Minneapolis
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 20:44:05 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
Burak, your shots are misguided. Personally I do recognize Nuevo style when
I see someone dancing it at milonga: "...Mostly good close and some open
embrace dancers with one nuevo couple doing their stuff"
(https://www.tangospring.com/tangoBlogArchive12-2004.htm#dec52004).
Moreover, when I DJ next week at Mercury in Denver, I will include at the
end of milonga about 50 minutes of alt tangos which I like to dance to in
close embrace but suitable for Nuevo tango too (the milonga is 4.5 hour long
and post 1 a.m. music experiments are welcome in Denver).
I also think that any advanced dancer has his/her own distinct style
regardless of type of embrace. So "Fight Commonism!" slogan is somewhat
common place except in the sense that everyone should become great dancer as
soon as possible.
What is "leader's blind spot syndrome"?
Curiously, Oleh K.
https://TangoSpring.com
>From: el turco <shusheta@GMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: el turco <shusheta@gmail.com>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Elusive Nuevo style
>Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:49:08 -0600
>
>Oleh Kovalchuke summarized the Tango Nuevo discussion in his latest
>message, although i agree with him about the preservation of
>authenticity of argentine tango, I should say that The Tango Nuevo
>systems are NOT only training methodologies but also a CHOICE for any
>tango dancers who may interest trying new moves for themselves on the
>dance floor.
>Actually we all do use Tango Nuevo systems when we are practicing time
>to time. However some of us choose to dance by taking advantage of
>"tango nuevo" systems.
>It's true that "Tango Nuevo" is becoming a style of tango dancing at
>milongas.
>- When we watch people dancing at milonga, it's easy to distinguish
>who is using Tango Nuevo systems while they are dancing. There are
>certain number of characteristics of TangoNuevo that you can notice on
>the dance floor, such as using salsa arms, loosen-shifted frame,
>legato-smooth and large steps mixed with staccato- cut and short
>steps, more pauses than traditional, frequent transitions between
>close embrace and open embrace etc. but the most important
>characteristic is for me personalized dance style as result of using
>TangoNuevo. When you go to milonga if there is any Tango Nuevo dancer
>(of course good ones) watch them, you will see that each Tango Nuevo
>dancer is dancing unique.( if they understand the idea behind the
>Tango Nuevo systems of course). Tango Nuevo dancers don't have
>"leader's blind spot syndrome" when they are dancing in close embrace.
>
>
>The Tango Nuevo systems became a style due to denial and anger against
>it. Some dancers preferred to employ TangoNuevo systems. Some people
>don't like to see them on the dance floor, people call them "nuevo
>kids", yes, this is sad but true. Why do we care about other's dance
>style? Why criticize them if everybody is following "Milonga
>etiquette".
>In a narrow minded and old fashioned learning environment, TangoNuevo
>systems offer numerous possibilities not limitations (e.g "leader's
>blind spot syndrome", and "ocho cortado").
>
>
>However Tango is a living culture, hence it evolves. The essence of
>Tango is in you not in your favorite teacher's style. I strongly
>believe that Tango Nuevo presents great opportunities for everybody
>who wants to create their own dance style.
>( Fight Commonism!)
>
>Best Regards
>Burak Ozkosem
>Minneapolis
>
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 15:36:43 -0800
From: Joseph Camel <joseph_camel@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
I mostly dance with girl camels, a couple times a month with boy camels,
just for fun! heh heh... West Coast Swing & Smooth Lindy are well-grounded
into the floor & don't bounce. Same idea with Rumba, Cha-Cha, etc, etc, etc...
Some wiseguy showed me this:
https://adbusters.org/spoofads/tobacco/jc2/
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 22:43:23 -0800
From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
Thank you, Oleh, for bringing attention to my article
"Tango Nuevo and Argentine Tango. What is the difference?"
which can be found here:
https://www.virtuar.com/tango/tango_weblog.htm#tangonuevo
and starting the discussion which I think is very important.
That is why I wrote the article at the first place.
Many of you agree that of course, Tango Nuevo is a style of Argentine Tango.
It is a fabulous style. Very well developed by talented people and moving
full speed forward.
I am also noticing that there is "denial and anger against it" as Burak
mentioned
especially now when more and more people start to recognize values of close
embrace styles.
Why?
At the time I wrote my article I felt that there was "denial and anger"
against other styles of tango
very well felt in communities populated mostly with Tango Nuevos.
The reason why my article has negative inclining against Tango Nuevo is not
because the Nuevo is bad.
The style is as good as others. It is because many teachers of Tango Nuevo
forget to tell their students
that Nuevo is only one of many Argentine Tango styles.
Instead they say: "This is Argentine Tango". It misleads.
That is why we see those energetic "fighters" on the crowded dance floor
which sometimes mess the things up.
They do not know what to do! They have not been taught other things!
How one can be taught sacadas if he does not know yet how to walk around the
circle and have fun out of it!?
Oh, yes, yes, in the style which proclaims that rotation or turn is the
basis of all it is really tricky.
Interesting, that experienced dancers and teachers of Tango Nuevo know all
that.
They do change their style in accordance to situation,
but it looks like they do not teach enough of it to the followers of their
school.
Well, I can say that it is not about Tango Nuevo only.
When the floor is really very very crowded, as I have experienced it in
Portland lately,
even modern Salon style ( there is also salon of 1920 which is very
different ) becomes an obstacle.
Essentially any open embrace style.
The situation becomes suitable only for close embrace. This is what you see
in Buenos Aires.
So, tango dancers should be able to dance in all styles,
because it is not the matter of personal preference, but necessity of the
dance floor.
Tango Nuevo - for large open spaces, other open embrace - for regular
milongas,
close embrace - for a small or crowded floor.
The advantage of Tango is that it can be danced everywhere.
On the rough floor, between tables and chairs. Cool, eh?
We just should know how.
Igor Polk
San Francisco Click,
Photo Virtual Tour Magazine: https://www.virtuar.com/click.htm
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 12:16:38 -0800
From: Iron Logic <railogic@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
As a teaching methodology, I like Nuevo, probably they are the only ones who I have a teaching method at all to offer. At least I do not know of any other. There are many great dancers with a secret or two to pass on. It appears like they expect you to learn for tens of years before you become a decent dancer, that is ridiculous, perhaps this why Gustavo and others came up with Neuvo Tango.
Having said this Gustavo, for instance danced for ages and knows his stuff. The problem I think is with the new comers with hardly any understanding trying to "innovate". Then we have so called "martial arts tango" etc etc. For instance a salsero can learn from a Nuevo tango teacher and dramatically improve his possibilities in salsa, challenges of a tango dancer are valid for him as well. Now the question is which is tango and which is salsa.
Like many art forms, there is a cultural context to Tango, there is form, posture and the meditative quality. Some of the ballroom dances are differ only posture and form ...with the same steps.
Bottom-line, I think to modify something we should know what is it that we are modifying. If one has sensitive skin, no circus is necessary, ...in general. But I have to admit I am impressed with physical skills of some the Nuevo tango dancers, lot of women will surely find it attractive;)
...my 2 cents.
Rai
Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM> wrote:Thank you, Oleh, for bringing attention to my article
"Tango Nuevo and Argentine Tango. What is the difference?"
which can be found here:
https://www.virtuar.com/tango/tango_weblog.htm#tangonuevo
and starting the discussion which I think is very important.
That is why I wrote the article at the first place.
Many of you agree that of course, Tango Nuevo is a style of Argentine Tango.
It is a fabulous style. Very well developed by talented people and moving
full speed forward.
I am also noticing that there is "denial and anger against it" as Burak
mentioned
especially now when more and more people start to recognize values of close
embrace styles.
Why?
At the time I wrote my article I felt that there was "denial and anger"
against other styles of tango
very well felt in communities populated mostly with Tango Nuevos.
The reason why my article has negative inclining against Tango Nuevo is not
because the Nuevo is bad.
The style is as good as others. It is because many teachers of Tango Nuevo
forget to tell their students
that Nuevo is only one of many Argentine Tango styles.
Instead they say: "This is Argentine Tango". It misleads.
That is why we see those energetic "fighters" on the crowded dance floor
which sometimes mess the things up.
They do not know what to do! They have not been taught other things!
How one can be taught sacadas if he does not know yet how to walk around the
circle and have fun out of it!?
Oh, yes, yes, in the style which proclaims that rotation or turn is the
basis of all it is really tricky.
Interesting, that experienced dancers and teachers of Tango Nuevo know all
that.
They do change their style in accordance to situation,
but it looks like they do not teach enough of it to the followers of their
school.
Well, I can say that it is not about Tango Nuevo only.
When the floor is really very very crowded, as I have experienced it in
Portland lately,
even modern Salon style ( there is also salon of 1920 which is very
different ) becomes an obstacle.
Essentially any open embrace style.
The situation becomes suitable only for close embrace. This is what you see
in Buenos Aires.
So, tango dancers should be able to dance in all styles,
because it is not the matter of personal preference, but necessity of the
dance floor.
Tango Nuevo - for large open spaces, other open embrace - for regular
milongas,
close embrace - for a small or crowded floor.
The advantage of Tango is that it can be danced everywhere.
On the rough floor, between tables and chairs. Cool, eh?
We just should know how.
Igor Polk
San Francisco Click,
Photo Virtual Tour Magazine: https://www.virtuar.com/click.htm
Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:26:34 -0600
From: el turco <shusheta@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
Oleh, I didn't mean that you don't recognize Nuevo dancers on the
dance floor. Any good and innovative tango dancer is Tango Nuevo
dancer in my eyes. i forgot to mention that Tango Nuevo will be most
affordable tango style to learn, unfortunately at the moment this is
opposite.
What is "leader's blind spot syndrome?" Oleh asked;this is issue
related to Dance floor management skills.
I call this as syndrome because leaders get frustrated about it, and
their instructors limit them.
as you know in close embrace, leader's right side is due to his/her
partner creates blindspot. Therefore, if you are dancing close embrace
you-leader don't see your right side, so everybody uses their left
side to step. If you ask many tango instructors, they will say NO!
don't go that side! it's blindspot.I'm not saying that there is NO
blins spot, however i say that leaders can control it. ( But How?, you
have to be innovative, Welcome to Tango Nuevo systems)
If somebody is left-handed why do they have to dance as right handed
people? what are the guidelines for that?
you can ask numerous questions to yourself in Tango Nuevo, and seek
for the answers.
Unknowns of Tango Nuevo systems:
- Tango Nuevo systems still primitive on some concepts such as milonga.
I don't know anybody who has Nuevo milonga dancing methodology.
Mostly Tango Nuevo concepts fit to Tango and Vals wvery well , but
what about milonga? (after my message some people hopefully will start
working on this issue)
- dance floor managament skills such as Formation of tango nuevo
"ronda" awareness.
- narrowminded musicality issues, (Tango Nuevo= Alternative Tangos)
Why this is NOT true? Tango Nuevo doesn't require particular type of
Tango music, however many Tango Nuevo dancers prefer alternative songs
to dance Nuevo. This problem may lead lack of tango musicality among
Tango Nuevo dancers. This must be avoided.
- Earlier i said Tango Nuevo systems became Tango dance style due to
denial and anger from other tango dancers. Meanwhile, Tango Nuevo
dancers creeated their identity not only by the way they dance but
also by changing their tango dance outfit. Ballroom shoes replaced
with dance sneakers, slick skirts and pants transformed into baggy
pants, funky outfit The holy colors (red-black) of traditional Tango
disappeared. The first beloved color of Tango, orange, came back to
power along with many other vivid colors. These elements that Tango
Nuevo dancers present DON"T mean they are dancing Tango Nuevo of
course. This must NOT be an isolation issue among tango dancers at
all.
Bests,
Burak Ozkosem
Minneapolis
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:11:11 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
Igor Polk summarized:
So, tango dancers should be able to dance in all styles, because it is not
the matter of personal preference, but necessity of the dance floor. Tango
Nuevo - for large open spaces, other open embrace - for regular milongas,
close embrace - for a small or crowded floor.
There is more to choosing particular style than available space. I will
dance in close embrace in an empty ballroom because it is a matter of my
personal preference.
Cheers, Oleh K.
https://TangoSpring.com
>From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
>Reply-To: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Elusive Nuevo style
>Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 22:43:23 -0800
>
>Thank you, Oleh, for bringing attention to my article
>"Tango Nuevo and Argentine Tango. What is the difference?"
>which can be found here:
>https://www.virtuar.com/tango/tango_weblog.htm#tangonuevo
>and starting the discussion which I think is very important.
>That is why I wrote the article at the first place.
>
>Many of you agree that of course, Tango Nuevo is a style of Argentine
>Tango.
>It is a fabulous style. Very well developed by talented people and moving
>full speed forward.
>I am also noticing that there is "denial and anger against it" as Burak
>mentioned
>especially now when more and more people start to recognize values of close
>embrace styles.
>Why?
>At the time I wrote my article I felt that there was "denial and anger"
>against other styles of tango
>very well felt in communities populated mostly with Tango Nuevos.
>
>The reason why my article has negative inclining against Tango Nuevo is not
>because the Nuevo is bad.
>The style is as good as others. It is because many teachers of Tango Nuevo
>forget to tell their students
>that Nuevo is only one of many Argentine Tango styles.
>Instead they say: "This is Argentine Tango". It misleads.
>That is why we see those energetic "fighters" on the crowded dance floor
>which sometimes mess the things up.
>They do not know what to do! They have not been taught other things!
>How one can be taught sacadas if he does not know yet how to walk around
>the
>circle and have fun out of it!?
>Oh, yes, yes, in the style which proclaims that rotation or turn is the
>basis of all it is really tricky.
>Interesting, that experienced dancers and teachers of Tango Nuevo know all
>that.
>They do change their style in accordance to situation,
>but it looks like they do not teach enough of it to the followers of their
>school.
>
>Well, I can say that it is not about Tango Nuevo only.
>When the floor is really very very crowded, as I have experienced it in
>Portland lately,
>even modern Salon style ( there is also salon of 1920 which is very
>different ) becomes an obstacle.
>Essentially any open embrace style.
>The situation becomes suitable only for close embrace. This is what you see
>in Buenos Aires.
>
>So, tango dancers should be able to dance in all styles,
>because it is not the matter of personal preference, but necessity of the
>dance floor.
>Tango Nuevo - for large open spaces, other open embrace - for regular
>milongas,
>close embrace - for a small or crowded floor.
>
>The advantage of Tango is that it can be danced everywhere.
>On the rough floor, between tables and chairs. Cool, eh?
>We just should know how.
>
>Igor Polk
>San Francisco Click,
>Photo Virtual Tour Magazine: https://www.virtuar.com/click.htm
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:37:34 -0800
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
Dear Oleh:
You are right about choosing your own personal style
to dance tango. There are no rules in tango. I would
point out however that most dancers will always try to
use up the available dance floor space when they can.
This is why "milongita" or close embrace style became
a "have to" in the crowded milongas in BA, not
necessarily a "want to". Later on it became a "want
to".
Personally I like to see dancers use up the space they
are given. Seeing a couple in close embrace in one
corner of a huge empty room does not do it for me.
Like wise a couple bumping into people in a crowded
milonga doing big steps does not do it for me either.
I try my best to adjust "like a bandondeon" the size
of my dance according to the conditions at hand. I
personally think a flexible approach to tango is more
fun and more interesting. This is why I love close
embrace, but not all the time. My humble opinion and
preference.
Derik
--- Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Igor Polk summarized:
>
> So, tango dancers should be able to dance in all
> styles, because it is not
> the matter of personal preference, but necessity of
> the dance floor. Tango
> Nuevo - for large open spaces, other open embrace -
> for regular milongas,
> close embrace - for a small or crowded floor.
>
> There is more to choosing particular style than
> available space. I will
> dance in close embrace in an empty ballroom because
> it is a matter of my
> personal preference.
>
> Cheers, Oleh K.
> https://TangoSpring.com
>
>
> >From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
> >Reply-To: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
> >To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> >Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Elusive Nuevo style
> >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 22:43:23 -0800
> >
> >Thank you, Oleh, for bringing attention to my
> article
> >"Tango Nuevo and Argentine Tango. What is the
> difference?"
> >which can be found here:
>
>https://www.virtuar.com/tango/tango_weblog.htm#tangonuevo
> >and starting the discussion which I think is very
> important.
> >That is why I wrote the article at the first place.
> >
> >Many of you agree that of course, Tango Nuevo is a
> style of Argentine
> >Tango.
> >It is a fabulous style. Very well developed by
> talented people and moving
> >full speed forward.
> >I am also noticing that there is "denial and anger
> against it" as Burak
> >mentioned
> >especially now when more and more people start to
> recognize values of close
> >embrace styles.
> >Why?
> >At the time I wrote my article I felt that there
> was "denial and anger"
> >against other styles of tango
> >very well felt in communities populated mostly with
> Tango Nuevos.
> >
> >The reason why my article has negative inclining
> against Tango Nuevo is not
> >because the Nuevo is bad.
> >The style is as good as others. It is because many
> teachers of Tango Nuevo
> >forget to tell their students
> >that Nuevo is only one of many Argentine Tango
> styles.
> >Instead they say: "This is Argentine Tango". It
> misleads.
> >That is why we see those energetic "fighters" on
> the crowded dance floor
> >which sometimes mess the things up.
> >They do not know what to do! They have not been
> taught other things!
> >How one can be taught sacadas if he does not know
> yet how to walk around
> >the
> >circle and have fun out of it!?
> >Oh, yes, yes, in the style which proclaims that
> rotation or turn is the
> >basis of all it is really tricky.
> >Interesting, that experienced dancers and teachers
> of Tango Nuevo know all
> >that.
> >They do change their style in accordance to
> situation,
> >but it looks like they do not teach enough of it to
> the followers of their
> >school.
> >
> >Well, I can say that it is not about Tango Nuevo
> only.
> >When the floor is really very very crowded, as I
> have experienced it in
> >Portland lately,
> >even modern Salon style ( there is also salon of
> 1920 which is very
> >different ) becomes an obstacle.
> >Essentially any open embrace style.
> >The situation becomes suitable only for close
> embrace. This is what you see
> >in Buenos Aires.
> >
> >So, tango dancers should be able to dance in all
> styles,
> >because it is not the matter of personal
> preference, but necessity of the
> >dance floor.
> >Tango Nuevo - for large open spaces, other open
> embrace - for regular
> >milongas,
> >close embrace - for a small or crowded floor.
> >
> >The advantage of Tango is that it can be danced
> everywhere.
> >On the rough floor, between tables and chairs.
> Cool, eh?
> >We just should know how.
> >
> >Igor Polk
> >San Francisco Click,
> >Photo Virtual Tour Magazine:
> https://www.virtuar.com/click.htm
>
>
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:54:34 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
Derik shared his personal preferences:
>Personally I like to see dancers use up the space they
>are given. Seeing a couple in close embrace in one
>corner of a huge empty room does not do it for me.
See, Derik, that's the difference in my and yours understanding of tango: I
do not dance for you, the spectator; I dance for me and my partner. The
available room is important only insofar as it allows me to not bump into
other people. Hence empty ballroom is as good as crowded club (with an
enjoyable partner).
Cheers, Oleh K.
https://TangoSpring.com
>From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
>Reply-To: d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Elusive Nuevo style
>Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 10:37:34 -0800
>
>Dear Oleh:
>
>You are right about choosing your own personal style
>to dance tango. There are no rules in tango. I would
>point out however that most dancers will always try to
>use up the available dance floor space when they can.
>This is why "milongita" or close embrace style became
>a "have to" in the crowded milongas in BA, not
>necessarily a "want to". Later on it became a "want
>to".
>
>Personally I like to see dancers use up the space they
>are given. Seeing a couple in close embrace in one
>corner of a huge empty room does not do it for me.
>Like wise a couple bumping into people in a crowded
>milonga doing big steps does not do it for me either.
>I try my best to adjust "like a bandondeon" the size
>of my dance according to the conditions at hand. I
>personally think a flexible approach to tango is more
>fun and more interesting. This is why I love close
>embrace, but not all the time. My humble opinion and
>preference.
>
>Derik
>
>--- Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> > Igor Polk summarized:
> >
> > So, tango dancers should be able to dance in all
> > styles, because it is not
> > the matter of personal preference, but necessity of
> > the dance floor. Tango
> > Nuevo - for large open spaces, other open embrace -
> > for regular milongas,
> > close embrace - for a small or crowded floor.
> >
> > There is more to choosing particular style than
> > available space. I will
> > dance in close embrace in an empty ballroom because
> > it is a matter of my
> > personal preference.
> >
> > Cheers, Oleh K.
> > https://TangoSpring.com
> >
> >
> > >From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
> > >Reply-To: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
> > >To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> > >Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Elusive Nuevo style
> > >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 22:43:23 -0800
> > >
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 11:07:02 -0800
From: Joseph Camel <joseph_camel@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
Oh I don't know. it doesn't seem that elusive at al really.
Especially at the weekend of this month...here in Portland.
.
Come to a new event in Portland at the end of
January, 2005! The first Portland Fifth, a regular
event that will recur every time there are five
weekends during the month, will take place January
28th-30th.
This event will include:
An all-nighter on Friday, January 28th with DJ
Homer Ladas from San Francisco.
Workshops with Homer and his partner Charity Lebron.
Open discussions on Tango: past, present and
possibilities.
This event promises to draw dancers from all over
the west coast and the
rest of the country. Make your travel plans now!
Full Schedule
Milongas:
Friday, January 28th: All-nighter with DJ Homer at
Studio Berretin
(6305 SE Foster St, Portland OR)
Sunday, January 30th: Fusion Practica with Homer s
mix of traditional and
alternative music at Studio Berretin.
Friday:
Class A, 8-9:30 pm: Intro to two kinds of
colgadas: one designed for close embrace and a
sideways open colgada from a soltada.
Saturday:
Discussion 1, 1:30-2:30 pm: Traditional versus
alternative DJing: artistic,
technical and community impacts.
Class B, 3-4:30 pm: The fusion of open and close
embrace tango through colgadas.
Class C, 4:30-6 pm: The sacada experimentation
laboratory; a guided voyage through
the simple, interesting and unexpected.
Sunday:
Discussion 2, 7:30-8pm: The choices we make and
why: open vs close embrace (the history,
evolution, fusion and future of the tango dance
structure).
Class D, 8-9:30 pm: Getting serious: another take
on the open tango molinete (intro to alterations
and the molinete's musical revenge!)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:54:51 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
Oleh wrote:
>[An] empty ballroom is as good as crowded club (with an
>enjoyable partner).
I agree. With the right partner, dancing in an empty ballroom is just as
good as dancing in a very crowded club.
(Except there is no one to see if her eyes are closed.) ;-)
It's the in-between conditions that can be less fun. When the floors are
becoming moderately crowded, invariably a few dancers will try to expand
their dances to fill the available space. Making mistakes at this
activity, they create collisions and near misses all over the dance floor.
--Steve (de Tejas)
Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 15:09:36 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: Elusive Nuevo style
On Jan 12, 2005, at 11:37 AM, Derik Rawson wrote:
> Dear Oleh:
> You are right about choosing your own personal style
> to dance tango. There are no rules in tango. I would
> point out however that most dancers will always try to
> use up the available dance floor space when they can.
> ...Personally I like to see dancers use up the space they
> are given. Seeing a couple in close embrace in one
> corner of a huge empty room does not do it for me.
> ...
> Derik
This is a very North-American sensibility. Maybe it is particularly
cultural for the Western US where we have big open spaces and suburbs
stretching one or two hours from the city. Maybe it has something to do
with modern alienation and the TV culture of isolation.
Even the way the observation was framed is interesting. Derik speaks of
using up empty space of the open floor instead of seeing the social
dance space defined by the PERIMETER of the dance floor delimited by
tables or walls.
It is common enough.
You put 30 average tango dancers into a medium room (or 100 into a big
room), and notice that they have all spread out as far from each other
as possible. Each leader seeks enough space to complete their 8 or 16
count sequences rarely interacting with the other dancers.
To me, this isn't a milonga; it is a practice.
You don't get the electric, high-energy feel of a "real" milonga until
the density on the floor arrives to a certain point. It has to do with
rhythm, intuitive decision making, feeling the people around you,
reacting to changing floor situations.
If beginners are accustomed to navigation and improvisation in a more
crowded space from the very start, then they are less likely to become
wooden, analytical dancers.
One of the best ways to teach rhythm is to work with a tighter crowd,
let's say 40 or 80 students in a group constrained by chairs or tables.
Even the most rhythmically challenged beginning guy starts to get
double-time rhythms by picking them up from everyone around them.
Even bigger, flowing movements of nuevo are more spontaneous and
creative when the dancers have learned to interact with others on the
floor. They become capable of adjusting their pivots, rebounds, ideas
to changing situations which teaches them to become more intuitive. The
best of these dancers can handle very crowded situations.
Yes, I know many leaders who are really bugged by having other dancers
get in the way of their ideas.
Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org
