equitable treatment for both sexes!!!


628 equitable treatment for both sexes!!!	ARTICLE INDEX
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 07:53:51 -0500 From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG> Subject: Re: equitable treatment for both sexes!!! Linda Allred wrote: >But, IMHO, this is hypocritical if you will not cross the line >in the milonga to invite the local students of another local >teacher to dance. This is probably the most common form of cliquishness in tango, but I doubt the intentions are cruel. Most people are more comfortable interacting with people they already know. Also if there is a gender imbalance, it is very difficult for the men to leave the women who they know and having practicing with to go dance with others. Most men owe a great debt to the women who were their partners when they learned to dance tango. In addition, the dancing styles may be somewhat incompatible across teachers. One teacher may teach milonguero, another salon and another fantasia. One teacher may teach a particular set of memorized figures, another a different set of memorized figures, and another lead and follow skills and improvisational techniques. Linda wrote: >Let the men experience sitting around waiting for the dances >they want all evening for a change. A dance floor it not really the place for retribution. As Astrid points out, it is the gender imbalance that keeps women in their seats, not attitudes of the men. Astrid wrote: >On the other hand, even in Europe, the overload of women longingly looking >at them while patiently waiting can get to a man's head, and I have been >turned down with a haughty "No, thank you" that would beat a 19th century >high class virgin, a couple of times in Berlin, when I tried asking myself. Some men do become haughty, and a gender imbalance may encourage such behavior. But one reason that men may respond poorly when turning down an invitation to dance is that they have not developed their skills for saying no. Women have much more experience at being asked to dance, being asked out on dates, etc. They have learned how to say no. On evenings where there are a lot more women than men, I will end up spending the evening dancing a lot more than I really wanted to or had intended to when I got to the milonga. I usually only get to sit out a tanda or two the whole evening. Nonetheless, I frequently find women are asking me to dance during those few breaks I am taking. I wonder how many women would be comfortable spending the whole evening feeling like they have to dance because there are significantly more men than women. I know some women would relish in it, just as some men relish being in the position of being able to dance every dance even when they lack many skills... I think many would not. Helene wrote: >Why do the milonga organizers not decide, at some point in the milonga, >that women should invite men? ... it could be a sort of game, they would >do it for one tanda, 2 tandas... more .. and they could end up one day >announcing that women are welcome to invite men during the whole evening !!!! Another way to address this issue would be to have the women line up and the men line up. When a couple finishes dancing, the woman returns to the end of her line, and the man to his. (Susan and I sometimes conduct our classes this way.) What will happen, however, is that men and women who are barely capable of dancing or are creepy will be more encouraged to attend milongas... Imagine what it would be like if no one was allowed to say no... With best regards, Steve Stephen Brown Tango Argentino de Tejas Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 09:58:10 -0400 From: rtara <rtara@MAINE.RR.COM> Subject: Re: equitable treatment for both sexes!!! Hereąs the deal on who gets the most dances. 1 - Gorgeous, Young, Great Dancers 2. - Gorgeous, Young 3. Gorgeous 4 Great Dancers We canąt do much about our age or looks, but we can all become better dancers. As we get better we will dance more. Personally, I enjoy being chosen as a partner more than I enjoy doing the choosing. Itąs true that by just waiting I miss dancing with many men Iąd like to dance with, but I assume that eventually they will notice my dancing and decide for themselves whether or not they would enjoy dancing with me. There are many reasons people decide against dancing with a particular person: Height difference Jealous mate Varying dance abilities Fear of rejection Differing styles Uninspiring music Exhaustion Aching feet The list goes on . . . For everyone, it helps to dress as well as you can and wear a smile. Donąt hide in a corner waiting to be discovered, make yourself available. If there is a bar or concession in the room, place yourself near it. If thereąs no concession, place yourself near the entrance to the dance floor or in the path to the bathrooms. Be outgoing and friendly. Remember, A tango dance is not a competition to see who gets the most dances, but a social event to be enjoyed. There is much to be learned by watching. Watch the floor. See who is dancing well. Watch the successful dancers. Notice how they connect with potential partners. Iąve heard a lot of women tell me that they never ask a man to dance, however I have overheard many of these same women saying things to potential partners such as: Hey, we havenąt danced all night. Or Gee, you promised youąd dance with me tonight. Or Can you just show me that little combination we did in class today? Or Oh, I just love this orchestra. All are invitations to dance. I donąt necessarily endorse these tactics, but they are effective and you can retain the pretense of łnot ever asking men to dance˛. The bottom line is that if you dance well and are pleasant, you will dance. You donąt really need tricks, and you can enjoy the evening because you feel confident that the men who enjoy dancing with you will find you and ask you. Robin Tara Tara Tago Shoes www.22tangoshoes.com Toll Free in US: 1-877-906-8272 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:31:36 -0400 From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: equitable treatment for both sexes!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "rtara" <rtara@MAINE.RR.COM> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] equitable treatment for both sexes!!! Robiun said: Here9s the deal on who gets the most dances. 1 - Gorgeous, Young, Great Dancers 2. - Gorgeous, Young 3. - Gorgeous 4 - Great Dancers While this might indeed be true for the general public, it is not true as far as I'm concerned. I will only agree with the first ranking: to a point. For me the the list goes like this: 1. Great dancers 2. Good dancers 3. Adequate dancers Gorgeous and young are a plus to any of the above categories. The gorgeous and / or young only get lots of dances if they are also at least average dancers. For me the factors that most affect me negatively so that I'll not dance with a particular person are: 1. standoffishness or unfriendliness 2. poor dancers who are actually painful to dance with 3. I just might not want to dance with a particular person for my own reasons too. The single biggest reason for me not to dance at a particular time is lousy music. Great dancing for all, Manuel Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:55:50 -0400 From: Nicole Dowell <bailadora2000@EXCITE.COM> Subject: Re: equitable treatment for both sexes!!! I really don't understand - First of all, why is it so hard for a woman to ask a man to dance? Maybe it's because I'm used to having to as a teacher but, it's not that hard. I think it relieves the guy's pressure to do so. And...yeah, even as a professional, I've been turned down before too...but hey, you pass it off as a grain of salt...you don't take it personally. Secondly, here in Miami, we have a close knit group of tango people...I don't understand how in these other tango communities friendships haven't developed enough to feel comfortable asking each other (whether you are male or female) to dance. If you haven't become a "friend" to your other local tangueros...well, then YOU are the problem. There's too much intimacy and warmth in this dance (and in the tango community itself) that if you aren't feeling it then you need to look to where the problem most likely stands - in yourself. What have you done as a person and your personality and presence at the tango community to turn people off from asking you to dance? Maybe I'm being harsh, and granted, I understand beginners in tango are intimidated to ask others to dance...and at that point I think the teachers need to take charge and get the student out there dancing. But if you've gone past the beginner beginner stage and you still aren't finding the warmth and friendliness in tango...and not getting danced with...then it's not everyone else... you need to reexamine yourself. I came from the ballroom community and one of the first things that impressed me in tango when I started was how warm everyone was, and how it felt like a big family. Sometimes I feel so obligated to dance with people at the milongas now because they are my friends and family, that I feel selfish when I do sit down for a while. Nicole Miami, Fl Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 14:20:48 -0500 From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU> Subject: Re: equitable treatment for both sexes!!! Robin and friends, I like clear ideas well stated! Like this: rtara wrote: > > Here1s the deal on who gets the most dances. > 1 - Gorgeous, Young, Great Dancers > 2. - Gorgeous, Young > 3. – Gorgeous > 4 – Great Dancers Robin makes some great points about managing social interactions without hitting leaders upside the head for dances. But this is about her perception of leader's priorities, listed above. Let me address the followers here - particularly those who prefer an apilado or near-apilado frame when they dance tango. When I dance with you, what do I see? 1. Your ear and your neck, out of focus, and your hair 2. A portion of your right shoulder, depending on your height 3. Your right hand and arm What is that? About 5% of the package that you spent an hour preparing before you arrived? I take that to mean that your appearance is so carefully groomed for a) (hopefully) your own satisfaction and b) the appreciation of people who are NOT dancing with you. When I dance with you what do I feel? This loaded question needn't be taken too deeply to make my point. 1. Your balance 2. Your lightness from the posture you've been practicing so long 3. Your sense of musicality 4. Probably at least once per tanda, your sense of humor 5. ... something about your personality? When I hear women complain that they don't get dances because they are not as physically attractive as so-and-so, I am immediately suspicious. First of all, women are their own worst enemy when it comes to understanding beauty. Second, I suspect that they may also not be the best judges of their dance ability as it may or may not contribute to the FUN of the leader. With only 5% of your charms (well, you get the idea...) exposed to the leader's eye, we're far more receptive to appreciate another kind of beauty! ...not something you slithered into, painted or sprayed or brushed on, or even strapped to those pretty feet. Sorry ladies, but unless you are willing to give a peek into your psyche, open your heart a little, go ahead and TRUST to make 'the connection', the leaders can't appreciate you. Forget about that pesky strap that won't stay on your right shoulder. Forget about dust on those sexy burgundy suede shoes. Forget about that whole hour you spent before you arrived. They have nothing to do with whether I will want to dance with you again. There is no substitute for a tango connection. When it comes to dancing tango, if quantity of dances equals quality of your milonga experience, then ... I'm sorry. Un besito, Frank - Minneapolis Frank G. Williams, Ph.D. University of Minnesota frankw@mail.ahc.umn.edu Dept. of Neuroscience (612) 625-6441 (office) 321 Church Street SE (612) 624-4436 (lab) Minneapolis, MN 55455 (612) 281-3860 (cellular/home) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 14:36:15 -0700 From: Tango B i t c h <latangobitch@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Re: equitable treatment for both sexes!!! ******** What many women believe.... ******* --- rtara <rtara@MAINE.RR.COM> wrote: > Here9s the deal on who gets the most dances. > 1 - Gorgeous, Young, Great Dancers > 2. - Gorgeous, Young > 3. - Gorgeous > 4 - Great Dancers ****** But, wait! ******* > The bottom line is that if you dance well and are pleasant, you will dance. > You don9t really need tricks, and you can enjoy the evening because you feel > confident that the men who enjoy dancing with you will find you and ask you. > ****** Ahhh, now she's got it. I've seen excellent followers not get asked to dance because of their judgmental attitude, and provocatively-dressed beginners get asked to dance only by predators and self-appointed teachers (which can scarcely be called "dancing"). And, at the same time, out on the floor are scores of average-looking average-dancing women. What gives? I suspect most men dance with women whose company they enjoy. Pure and simple. The women who smile at them and compliment them; The women who walk over to them and ask them how they've been without putting pressure on them to dance; The women who offer sincere praise when they lead well; The women they would want to spend time with -- as friends. Hey, what do you know? Just like real life. Yes, it's wonderful to have a woman who is a perfect follower, gorgeous, and the envy of all the other dancers. But she's out of the country this week, and so many other women are still being asked to dance. Go figure. latb Continue to Tango in Venezuela ?? \| ARTICLE INDEX**

628 equitable treatment for both sexes!!!