135  falling speakers and videocameras

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 21:03:26 -0400
From: Jim Hudson <jhudson@CC.GATECH.EDU>
Subject: Re: falling speakers and videocameras

> If there is any moral in the story as it relates to tango, I guess it
> would be that milonga orgnizers should do a better job of
> securing the loudspeakers...

(Just to put my comments into context, I was one of the friends who was
there when Manuel had the speaker landed on him.)

The falling speaker incident was tragic, but maybe we can chalk the safety
problems up to carelessness. Everyone knows that it was inexcusable and I'm
sure it will be corrected next time. What happened afterwards, though is
one of the reasons that I have not been back to a milonga in NYC even though
I'm currently living in the area.

A number of people were videotaping the performance in which the speaker
fell. After the initial confusion wore off, videotaping did not stop.
Instead, those individuals kept their cameras trained on those who had been
injured. They taped the paramedics; they taped the police; they taped the
victims; they taped the friends. In fact, they taped everything they could
about the incident. While you could make a number of arguments about
videotaping the speaker fallout as a form of legal protection, these same
videographers had not put down their cameras all night. They would simply
stand on the side and closely videotape couples as they went by.

The next day, we all went to the Central Park milonga and videocameras were
again out in full force. Different individuals; same scene. Not only were
individuals standing on the side of the "floor" to tape and photograph
everything they could, some were even following dancers through the dance
floor in order to record them. I even had one lady cursing me and calling
me names because I got in the way of her wide angle lens when she was
standing next to my bookbag. As she told me, she had gotten there first (an
hour after I did!) and I needed to move.

These cameras severely offended me on a number of levels. I go to milongas
to dance, not to perform. If I'm going to perform, I want to get paid. I
don't know how these individuals plan to use the videos, but I do not want
someone following me around with a video camera while I dance for pleasure.
It sucks all of the fun out of the dance for me.

More to the point, however, these cameras were part of the NY dance culture.
If it were just one rude individual, I could again forgive it.
Unfortunately, it was more of the rule than the exception. As the woman at
the Central Park milonga illustrated, cameras come first, dancers second.
NYC, where no one hears you scream, is the ultimate rubberneck culture.
(Don't get me wrong. I love NYC, but the dance culture certainly needs some
work.)

Video cameras are perfectly appropriate for a performance in which the
performer allows videoing. (Not all do, of course. When they don't, that
should be respected.) At an event for pleasure, however, respect those who
are there. If you must record the dance, tape only those who allow you to
do so. Do not assume that everyone likes you recording them. If you must
be obnoxious and videotape anyway, don't follow people through the dance
floor, especially not an incredibly crowded one. Finally, don't threaten
those who get in the way of your camera.

As organizers of events, we should be careful of the types of activities
that we promote in these events. Whatever anyone says, the organizer of an
event has the right and power to set their own standards. If we want to
promote enjoyable events, we should all seriously consider how things like
videocameras affect the comfort of those attending the events. If you like
to run people off, however, by all means, pull out that camera!

Jim

PS. Kudos to Danel and Maria (in NYC) at whose milongas I've always had
wonderful dances with wonderful dancers and no video cameras.

Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:12:16 EDT
From: Shirley Kwan <SKisaichi@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: falling speakers and videocameras

>More to the point, however, these cameras were part of the NY dance culture.
>If it were just one rude individual, I could again forgive it.
>Unfortunately, it was more of the rule than the exception. As the woman
>at
>the Central Park milonga illustrated, cameras come first, dancers second.

A bit of an overgeneralization from someone who obviously doesn't dance
regularly in New York. Firstly, let me say I didn't attend the NY tango
festival nor am I affiliated with it; I was, however, present and dancing in
Central Park that day. I'm also a film and TV producer.
1. Cameras are NOT part of the NYC dance culture. Cameras ARE part of the
experience of visiting a memorable location/having memorable experiences,
participatory or not. I did see a camera or two in the park that day, but
passers-by, tourists and and others often are entranced and feel moved to
make mementos of what they've seen during their visits to our fair city (and
other locations as well). Haven't you ever done the same?
2. I can only speak for myself, but I do find that out-of-towners and
visitors (perhaps having different standards) will often stake claim to a
particular bench, table, chair, whatever, and actively defend it. Generally
speaking, New Yorkers understand that tango is a group activity, a communal
activity, and that in our fair city, real estate is at a premium, and
therefore understand that chairs, etc are to be shared because everyone needs
to sit sometime during the milonga. When I'm really annoyed--or tired--I'll
just move a bag on a chair to the floor and use the chair--those who don't
understand the local mores, take note.
That day in Central Park, when I sat to change shoes, a woman and her
husband, whom I hadn't seen before or since, told me I couldn't sit there
because she was saving it for her friend. I told her I'm sure her friend
wouldn't mind if I used it for a short time until he returned. Then she told
me he had a bad back (well, where was he, then? Not dancing, surely!) and I
told her that if he's in pain, I'm sure that, being a friend, she would be
more than happy to give him her seat.
3. There is the matter of consent. Video and still photo shooting for
personal use is a right guaranteed by the U.S. constitution. Courtesy is a
different matter altogether, and is a matter between private parties. In
private milongas in the U.S., the space is considered private and what
happens there is considered to be private, so private-use photography and
videography are permissible with the consent of the parties concerned
(including the milonga host). Public use and/or commercial use are not
permitted without written consent of the subjects and venue--for private
spaces.
Public spaces are another matter. The law assumes that public space
users are there out of choice, and therefore private use
photography/videography/filmmaking/image-making is allowed without consent
(again, courtesy is another matter entire). Public use/commercial use of
such images must have the prior written consent of the subjects and the
venue-owner (park authority).


As a New Yorker, I don't need or want to photograph/video images I can
see any time I want. However, I do know those who do, for artistic/personal
reasons. I hope this clears things up a bit. What you experienced were
breaches of etiquette by people who may or may not have been familiar with
the local rules-of-thumb. We live in an industry city and tend to be careful
about treading on others' space and privacy; on the other hand, those
boundaries tend to be well-defined here precisely for that reason.

sincerely,

shirley kwan

Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:27:53 EDT
From: Shirley Kwan <SKisaichi@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: falling speakers and videocameras

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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 16:26:49 EDT
Subject: Re: falling speakers and videocameras
To: SKisaichi@aol.com
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Addendum: Newsgathering with purpose of dissemination over public
airwaves/broadcast is generally exempt from the requirements of consent as
I've described in my previous post.

shirley kwan

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Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:19:14 -0700
From: Deborah Holm <deborah.holm@PRODIGY.NET>
Subject: Falling speakers and videocameras.

Jim Hudson wrote:

>>I even had one lady cursing me and calling
>>me names because I got in the way of her wide
>>angle lens when she was standing next to my
>>bookbag. As she told me, she had gotten
>>there first (an hour after I did!) and I needed
>>to move.

I spent 11 years living in Alaska, and during that
time for awhile working for Fish & Game, once
I was on a Boston whaler going up through the
iceberg-filled waters to Hubbard Glacier, which
is an active glacier. The Boston whaler has a flat
bottom, and we just pulled up the engine, used
the oars, and managed to get over all the broken
icebergs. I looked over to the shore and saw a
few wreckages of big fishing boats. Apparently,
when there are so many active little icebergs in the
water, they just "push" anything too big to go over
them to the side and beach them...
Deborah
San Francisco, California, USA

Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:39:07 -0700
From: Judith Farkas <judith@PARACEL.COM>
Subject: Re: falling speakers and videocameras

Hello all,

I have some comments to Jim Hudson's assumption that the falling speaker
was a result of carelessness on the part of the milonga hosts. Although it
is possible that there was some carelessness on the part of the milonga
hosts, it is also quite possible that the milonga hosts bear zero or
partial responsibility for the falling speaker. At some Tango venues,
sound systems including suspended speakers are provided by the site and are
not under the auspices of of the milonga hosts in any way. In other
cases, entire sound systems are schlepped in and set up in the safest
possible fashion by the milonga hosts, but are nonetheless on stands that
by necessity must sit on the floor. Thus, the speakers on stands are
available to be danced into by dancers who are not paying much attention to
their surroundings including speaker stands in the corners of the
room. Under such circumstances, it behooves the dancers to NOT dance into
speaker stands, to not move chairs that are deliberately placed in front of
speakers to prevent them from doing so, etc. We do the best that we can
to place the speakers as far into the corners of the room as possible and
to place chairs in front of the speakers to block dancers from coming into
contact with the stands, but more we cannot do. Some responsibility rests
with the dancers to pay attention to their surroundings and the floor
movements in regards to other dancers, tables, chairs, and sound equipment.

Best Regards,

Judith

>(Just to put my comments into context, I was one of the friends who was
>there when Manuel had the speaker landed on him.)
>
>The falling speaker incident was tragic, but maybe we can chalk the safety
>problems up to carelessness. Everyone knows that it was inexcusable and I'm
>sure it will be corrected next time. What happened afterwards, though is
>one of the reasons that I have not been back to a milonga in NYC even though
>I'm currently living in the area.

Judith Farkas
Senior Account Manager
Paracel
3833 North First Street
San Jose, CA 95134
510.583.6175 Phone
650.766.7328 Cell
judith@paracel.com
www.paracel.com

Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:29:39 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: falling speakers and videocameras

Shirley Kwan writes:

> 1. Cameras are NOT part of the NYC dance culture. Cameras ARE part of the
> experience of visiting a memorable location/having memorable experiences,
> participatory or not. I did see a camera or two in the park that day, but
> passers-by, tourists and and others often are entranced and feel moved to
> make mementos of what they've seen during their visits to our fair city (and
> other locations as well). Haven't you ever done the same?

The original poster mentioned people going onto the dance floor itself
to follow people around and videotape them. I think think that's going
a bit further than "feeling moved to make momentos," wouldn't you agree?

It's hard enough to navigate around other dancers on the floor without
having to navigate around some clown with a video camera.

Having spent much of my earlier life in and around New York (where there
is a very low tolerance for BS), I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't
"accidentally" bump the guy off the floor in the course of dancing. I know
I would.

Huck

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:05:11 -0400
From: Ronda P <rondap@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: falling speakers and videocameras

In regard to Judith's message questioning what happened in NYC and whether
carelessness was involved, I would like to say a couple of things as an
eyewitness. First of all, it is clear that no one wanted anyone to get
hurt. Everyone was mortified, terrified and aghast at the noise, the blood,
and the extent of the disaster. We are all grateful no one was paralyzed or
killed. The truth is that the speaker was not secured at all. The speaker
was so heavy that it had casters on the bottom (to be rolled and not
lifted), it was on a very small shelf which actually could have broken in
two. The chairs placed under the speaker were the last to be filled. The
accident took place during a performance during which there was a tremendous
bass vibration that probably helped inch the speaker forward. People were
politely sitting watching the performance, then the speaker crashed onto
them. The organizers responded by calling 911, etc. They have been very
attentive to the needs of the accident victims. However, it is believed
that this speaker may have fallen at a previous event at this same studio.
The point is that it is the responsibility of organizers to provide a safe
environment for their patrons, just as a restaurant cannot serve you rotten
food, etc. We all love tango and want to have fun, happy events.
Organizers need to not make assumptions and be sure to be professional about
providing a safe space. I am grateful the three men are ok, and agree with
Jim that anyone taking a look at the room ahead of time, could have seen
that this was a disaster waiting to happen (whether they knew about the
previous accident or not). Safe milongas and tango journeys to all! Ronda

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 15:43:18 EDT
From: Shirley Kwan <SKisaichi@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: falling speakers and videocameras

In a message dated 8/8/1 3:02:22 AM, LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU writes:

> Having spent much of my earlier life in and around New York (where
>there
>is a very low tolerance for BS), I wouldn't be surprised if someone didn't
>"accidentally" bump the guy off the floor in the course of dancing. I
>know
>I would.
>

Please DON'T. It's called social dancing for a reason. The woman in your
dance embrace has entrusted you with her safety and protection She is a
human being who is connected to you physically and thus feels every jar and
jolt through you. She is NOT your personal weapon, either.
If you have problem with someone on the dance floor--talking,
road-hogging, whatever--there are two time-honored pro-active options. One
is to dance away. The other is to express yourself verbally--preferably
between dances. We created language for a reason. This, IMHO, would be an
appropriate use of it.
A "low tolerance for BS" generally translates into direct, clear language
and a clear-cut regard for other persons so as to avoid miscommunication.
IMHO. It does not mean violence is resorted to or condoned, in the short run
or over time, on or off the dance floor.

shirley kwan

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 08:52:26 -0700
From: Judith Farkas <judith@PARACEL.COM>
Subject: Re: falling speakers and videocameras

Hi all,

You folks have to some degree misunderstood me. I was not speaking to the
specific New York incident as much as commenting in general, simply that
milonga hosts are not always in control of items such as speaker placement
and securing as well as the actions of all of the guests. At our milonga,
guests often do things themselves that are unsafe and unbeknownst to Ruddy
and myself. We try to put things right as soon as possible, but
attempting to control 60 - 100 people at all times is too much to expect
out of any hosts. At any rate, I believe that most milonga hosts do
attempt to provide a pleasant and safe environment for all. We also
rely on our guests to alert us if unsafe conditions arise. In other
words, safety if a concern and a responsibility for everyone. My
apologies for confusing so many though with my previous message.

Judith

Judith Farkas
Senior Account Manager
Paracel
3833 North First Street
San Jose, CA 95134
510.583.6175 Phone
650.766.7328 Cell
judith@paracel.com
www.paracel.com

Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 18:48:42 -0700
From: Ruddy Zelaya <ruddy.zelaya@ENG.SUN.COM>
Subject: Re: falling speakers and videocameras

For what is worth, it is illegal (at least in California) to "fly"
speakers, i.e., anytime loudspeakers
are suspended above an audience, without a safety cable. You must have
adequate hardware
to support the weight of the speaker (that can weight anywhere from 40
pounds to several
hundred punds) AND in addition there has to be a steel cable (or chain)
independent of the supporting
hardware strong enough to prevent total collapse to act as a safety in
case there is a hardware failure.
A falling loudspeaker is a serious matter. Someone can be crippled for
life or even killed by one.
Don't be deceived by size either. A B52 subwoofer (very popular in
dance clubs) that measures
22"h x 22"w x 24"d weights in at 90 pounds. Lift it up 10 feet and drop
it on someone's head
and you can ruin their whole day.

While I agree with Judith that patrons to an event should not abdicate
their responsibility
to keep themselves safe at all times, falling speakers fall (pun not
intended ;-) in the realm
of negligence if the supporting mechanism was inadequate or a safety
cable was not provided.
It is the responsibility of the organizers of any event to provide and
maintain a safe environment. Tango
events are not exempt from the law as any two bit lawyer would be happy
to demonstrate if
the speaker had fallen on him/her.
--
ruddy