317 female leaders
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:46:24 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: female leaders
Ingrid,
you know that I have even asked you to dance with me instead of a young
handsome guy who I usually like a lot, so you already know where I stand in
regard to your leading skills.
I would like to let you and everyone else know, that in the Fabian Salas
workshop in Tokyo last weekend there very four women too many. Still
everybody got to dance, thanks to the generous cooperation of two ladies who
had meanwhile learned how to lead too. On the 3rd day there were 7 women too
many. One of my friends asked the organiser: "As what did I apply today ? As
a leader again, or as a follower ?" "As a leader", he replied and smiled. I
was so glad to hear that, and to know she would help us out again. And
actually, these women had gotten so good both ways, that I felt, it can be
more fun to dance with skillful female leader, than with a poor male leader.
(For me this is not a matter of course, it is a new realisation after I met
Ingrid at a milonga.)
Astrid
----- Original Message -----
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:52:16 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: female leaders
Ingrid,
you know that I have even asked you to dance with me instead of a young
handsome guy who I usually like a lot, so you already know where I stand in
regard to your leading skills.
I would like to let you and everyone else know, that in the Fabian Salas
workshop in Tokyo last weekend there very four women too many. Still
everybody got to dance, thanks to the generous cooperation of two ladies who
had meanwhile learned how to lead too. On the 3rd day there were 7 women too
many. One of my friends asked the organiser: "As what did I apply today ? As
a leader again, or as a follower ?" "As a leader", he replied and smiled. I
was so glad to hear that, and to know she would help us out again. And
actually, these women had gotten so good both ways, that I felt, it can be
more fun to dance with skillful female leader, than with a poor male leader.
(For me this is not a matter of course, it is a new realisation after I met
Ingrid at a milonga.)
Astrid
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:42:43 +0100
From: "Lagrana, Fernando" <fernando.lagrana@ITU.INT>
Subject: Re: Female leaders (Ingrid's message)
I would like to give some encouragements to Ingrid, provided this message comes through.
I was born and grown up in the South of France, a wonderful city called Biarritz, in the Bask country. People dance very often in this area : village festivals, family celebrations of all kinds, etc. you can dance all year long. During a typical dance evening, you could hear two kinds of music : for the "young" (jerk, rock, slow, twist, disco, and now hip-hop, trance, etc.) and for the "others" (paso doble, rumba, polka, waltz, bolero, tango, and now salsa, cumbia, etc.)
Real difference is not the age of the dancers but rather the way they dance. Typically, the "young" dance "alone" (although this not really true for rock) while the "others" dance in couple. And I always witnessed the same : there were two many female dancers... or two few men who really wanted- or knew how to dance.
As a result, to make sure they could dance, women danced together, and no one was surprised, shocked, ironic, or expressed whatever negative attitude : this was considered natural. And this is still so. Every Wednesday evening, my wife Elisa and myself do "los ayudantes" to help animate a practica close to Geneva (Switzerland) where we now live : I lead, she leads, I follow, she follows, we both do the two roles, we both dance with men or women, depending on what our fellow dancers and friends are willing to practice, review, learn, etc.
So Ingrid, go on. As Metin Yazir says, mistakes don't exist in tango, you can transform them into new steps. Obviously perception, feelings, will not be the same. As a leader, will you try to seduce your female follower in the same way you would do as a follower with a male leader ? This is another debate, which touches deep inside... and that you may be willing to launch as well !
Cheers,
Fernando De Jota
AlmaTango
Geneva, Switzerland
fernando@almatango.com
PS - If this message doens't come through, Ingrid may be willing to post it for me.
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 06:12:56 -0500
From: elizabeth telson <telsone@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Female Leaders
Ingrid, Astrid, and Everyone Else,
I just finished reading your posting regarding female leads, and I am one of those who had an unfortunate experience regarding this issue. In =
fact, it almost destroyed my commitment to stick with this dance.
It was pretty much the same scenario -- dance class with more women than men. Since I attend class to learn, I decided to take the initiative =
and volunteered to learn how to lead so we all would benefit from the lessons being taught that particular day.
I learned a lot. Because I cared enough, I asked my female partners for feedback which I took to heart and incorporated, and by the end of the =
class, my classmates complimented me on what a good lead I became (smiles).
However, on the other side of the coin, the male leaders glowered and expressed their annoyance with body language and nonverbal gestures.
Well, when the teaching assistant arrived (she had been delayed due to traffic), I took her arrival as an opportunity to practice the =
follower's step of that particular lesson just to make sure I had it correctly.
As a matter of fact, I indicated to her what I was doing...that I was learning to lead that day, but that I wanted to make sure I had the =
follower's role of that particular maneuver correctly.
Well, at that very moment, the instructor happens to glance over and made some rather unpleasant comments. One would think that would be the =
end of it...Oh, no....
Later on, when I was having a chat with a fellow classmate, the instructor asked could he have a word with me and the assistant who was =
helping me. I will not relate what was said. One would think that was enough.... Oh, no.
Well, when I arrived home and decided to check my e-mail, I found an e-mail from the instructor apologizing, which was the appropriate action =
to take on his part, but in the closure of the message, I was urged to take classes with the other fine instructors in the area, which, of =
course, I have done and I have no regrets about the move. I love my new instructors and their teaching methods.
I feel I will become a much better dancer under their tutelege. Plus, they have no problem with the switching back and forth because the =
objective is to ensure everyone gets the opportunity to practice.
I find an interesting double-standard here...If the history was one where men danced with men to ensure the ability to dance the dance, what =
is the problem with women dancing with women to help ensure their ability to dance this dance?
Yes, it is nice to dance with a male leader, but if there aren't enough available and, particularly in the class environment, what is the =
problem with another woman dancing lead so the class stays on target and everyone benefits? After all, these lessons are not gratis.
Now, I haven't dealt with the issue of same sex couples in the milonga environment. That is a matter of personal preference I would assume. =
Therefore, no comment is necessary.
That's my two cents. Wishing you a blessed day and applauding your courage for exploring this topic,
Sincerely,
Truewater2
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 14:22:41 -0500
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Female Leaders
It seems that the tango started as a dance between men and women.
Apparently, at the beginning, men learned with other men (and I presume
women also leaned with other women as well as with men). Culturally, the
tango is all about the relationship between a man and a woman on the dance
floor (at least this would seem to be the prevalent dogma amongst the
majority of tango aficionados). Even a cursory search will reveal many
articles and posts about "the connection", "the passion", "the embrace",
"the intimacy", etc. of the tango. All these things would lead one to think
of tango as romantic, if you will, endeavor. From this perspective, same sex
partners would not be the norm at a traditional milonga (e.g. in Buenos
Aires)
Now, in a lesson environment or in a practica, there would seem to be very
little controversy about one's choice of learning the leading or the
following parts of the dance. Here in Atlanta, it is fairly common to see
women dance with women even in public milongas. The reverse is not true
however. From the standpoint of learning and practicing, it is quite OK for
men to dance with men and I suppose the same applies to women. I have on
occasions, danced with my men students as the leader and the follower too.
However, at a traditional milonga, it would not do to dance with another
guy. It just isn't done. I guess in North America people are more relaxed
about those things and most milongas are small, almost intimate, affairs
where people already know each other and it's easier to do something like
that. I'm sure that in Buenos Aires, that would cause some degree of
controversy.
All that aside, there are some problems that can arise out of the
women/women or men/men dances. Often times, the gender balance does not
support women dancing with women and many guys stand around with nobody to
dance with. The reverse is also true, I've seen guys dance together while 4
or 5 women warm up their chairs! In our classes we encourage people to
switch partners, we also try to make sure that everybody gets a chance to
dance and to practice the things learned in the class. Sometimes, a woman
who asks other women to dance is doing more harm than good by reducing the
number of potential followers by 2! As for women leading men, well...
Leading and following are very different skills. While some women are
consumate leaders and can lead anybody to do anything, most women as leaders
are much more light and tentative than the men (they will use less brute
force and less body mass). Men, on the other hand, tend to be poor followers
as they are heavier and do very little of the technique required for
following (back ochos, pivoting, turns, etc.). This makes the whole thing
considerably more challenging. Men are much harder to lead and women are
generally smaller and lighter and have more of a challenge to lead.
Personally, I don't think there is much to be gained by women leading men
around in tango. I think that while it is useful for men as leaders to feel
what the follower feels, the reverse is not necesarily true. The skills of
the follower are very difficult to master and are considerably different
than those required to lead. I don't believe that a woman can become a
better follower by learning to lead. I do believe that a leader can become a
better leader by experiencing the leads himself.
As for people's personal preferences? I guess everybody is free to do
whatever they desire as long as the others involved go along with it.
Whatever gets you through the night......
Partners of their choice to all,
Manuel
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 20:56:29 +0100
From: Petra Starmans <petra.starmans@BEFREE.CH>
Subject: Re: Female Leaders
Hi Manuel :-)
Hi list
I know you Manuel will forgive me for being very european in my reaction
from Zurich here... ;-). (Hope you and Ronda are fine, by the way!)
> Leading and following are very different skills. While some women are
> consumate leaders and can lead anybody to do anything, most women as leaders
> are much more light and tentative than the men (they will use less brute
> force and less body mass). Men, on the other hand, tend to be poor followers
> as they are heavier and do very little of the technique required for
> following (back ochos, pivoting, turns, etc.). This makes the whole thing
> considerably more challenging. Men are much harder to lead and women are
> generally smaller and lighter and have more of a challenge to lead.
The weight and size thing does play a role, the lead will even more have to
be a body motion lead, impulse clearly generated from inside. Not to
mention, that the woman should be advised to change shoes, it is quite a
different stand leading on heels.. making the weight problem more acute,
especially in those figures where the man offers a central axis to the
couple.
The challenges of both partenaires not knowing the roles is equal to the
standard beginner situation, seems like no argument to me.. Beginning
whatever role is challenging. Maybe there is an aspect that it is hard on
the ego to 'fall back' to a beginner level.
> Personally, I don't think there is much to be gained by women leading men
> around in tango. I think that while it is useful for men as leaders to feel
> what the follower feels, the reverse is not necesarily true. The skills of
> the follower are very difficult to master and are considerably different
> than those required to lead. I don't believe that a woman can become a
> better follower by learning to lead. I do believe that a leader can become a
> better leader by experiencing the leads himself.
I believe that in all senses practicing the lead does help me become a
better follower!
I perceive better, what the effect is when followers lose balance, are too
slow and heavy or too quick and advance before a lead.. all 'theoretical'
concepts offered to a follower in many classes, of course one tries not to
do it, but it does help proud women like me to personally sense how terrible
followers can behave ;-). and that is a great motivation to work on things
even more.
Knowing the challenge of the navigation on the floor, I have a great deal
more patience with my leaders than before!
If I lead a talented and skilled follower woman, I can also learn a lot of
things from her body language and position, from her special style. It can
really clarify to feel somebody moving like you would be supposed to move
and sense that within the music as well. What type of embellishment is
possible within the music, which not, things like that as well.
If I lead a beginning man (or woman) I maybe understand that there are quite
some things i learned to master as a follower already. Nice for the ego ;-),
so to say, especially when my leading means going back to the beginner
stage, like mentioned above. Nice also because I can help my following
partenaire with rather qualified tips, having been there myself.
All experience gathered when leading, also adds to the work one can do with
partners in workshops when returning to the traditional role.
>
> It seems that the tango started as a dance between men and women.
> Apparently, at the beginning, men learned with other men (and I presume
> women also leaned with other women as well as with men). Culturally, the
> tango is all about the relationship between a man and a woman on the dance
> floor (at least this would seem to be the prevalent dogma amongst the
> majority of tango aficionados). Even a cursory search will reveal many
> articles and posts about "the connection", "the passion", "the embrace",
> "the intimacy", etc. of the tango. All these things would lead one to think
> of tango as romantic, if you will, endeavor. From this perspective, same sex
> partners would not be the norm at a traditional milonga (e.g. in Buenos
> Aires)
You are surely right about Buenos Aires.
I just think that connection, intimacy, embrace, and even excitement, I can
find that dancing with a great woman lead. If my woman lead is of that
level, I of course cannot / dare not say..
And in the end: let me be honest, it is great to be on the steering wheel
sometimes, picking the rhythm and the steps, a more outward, more poignant
creativity, being one with the music in an other sense, which at some
evenings suits my mood much more. I know quite some male dancers who like to
relax and be 'carried' around once in a while.
Nice tangos to all..
--
Petra Starmans
Neptunstrasse 21
8032 Z+APw-rich
tel/fax: ++ 41 (0)1 262 06 55
e-mail: petra.starmans@befree.ch
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 13:22:08 -0800
From: Benjamin Koh <benkoh@STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: role reversals and tango history (was: Female Leaders)
It is unfortunate that Elizabeth had an unpleasant experience with role
reversal. However we must always keep in mind that even the best tango
instructor is merely human like you and I. He is not a higher form of
human being. That is to say, he can be a wonderful tango instructor, but
that does not make him immune to being prejudiced, narrow-minded, rude,
or arrogant. He/She is just as likely as the next person to have
characteristics we do not find pleasant.
All a tango instructor is, ultimately, is someone who has mastered a
skill (tango dancing) that you haven't. That doesn't mean that he/she
has mastered diplomacy, a liberal outlook, tolerance or any other
virtues.
In other words, if the instructor is not treating you in a way you like,
move on to another instructor. It does not reflect poorly on instructors
as a whole but merely on he/she if you are made to feel uncomfortable.
Just like in every other profession, there will be some teachers who are
very traditional and some who are open to new ideas. Bigotry and heresy
in the tango context are merely opposing extremes on the scale of
innovation and creativity. Remember, you always have the choice not to
study with someone.
As for role reversals in milongas, I cannot speak for Buenos Aires, but
in some German milongas I attended, same-sex dancing was obvious, both
male-male and female-female, despite there being more women than men.
Men leading women were still the predominant pairings, though there were
also a few women leading men. No one I met batted an eyelid or said
anything. So the bias towards traditional pairings is not always carved
in stone.
Regarding Manuel Patino's statement about the dance originating between
men and women, according to some reading I did a while back, it started
off in the 1880s-1900s as a type of contest between men who were showing
off to win women (the male:female ratio in BsAs at the turn of the 20th
century was 14:1 on one official census). The skewed ratio can be
explained by BsAs' history as a port city - the vast majority of sailors
were men.
There were some homosexual men who took advantage of this opportunity to
meet other men, and as a result the authorities decided to encourage
female prostitution (no kidding) in the hopes of stopping such male
gatherings. The reverse effect occurred and the dance took off between
female prostitutes and their male clients instead, which is where
today's show themes of pimp/whore come from.
Tango went to Paris around the 1920s and became popular there before
becoming socially acceptable in BsAs itself ("if it's good enough for
the French it must be OK"). From then on tango developed the male/female
connection we like to talk about so much today. It was also at this time
that boys learned to dance by first following older boys, and later
learning to lead by practicing with their sisters and cousins, plus
other boys who were in turn younger than themselves. The older
milongueros alive today date from this period (1930s-1950s). Meaning,
they entered the tango scene during this period ie they were born in the
1920s-1940s.
There are many books published about tango history, and books that cover
the history of BsAs itself are also good. Most of these are in Spanish,
but enough have been translated into English and other languages that
you'll get a good overview of how the tango developed.
In dancing with reversed roles, my personal experience has been that I
love dancing with good partners, whether male or female, whether as
leader or follower. Not all men are comfortable leading men, of course,
so I only ask people I know quite well. Likewise for women - not all
women who do lead prefer to lead, so sometimes I follow, sometimes I
lead. And there are women I'd rather follow than lead, and vice versa.
For myself, learning to follow has made me more aware of how critical
the leader's job is in helping the follower maintain balance. A good
leader makes many things easy, but many more things remain difficult.
They are merely *easier* with a good leader, but not effortless. And a
bad leader really makes things so much harder... and it makes me better
able to figure out why stuff isn't working when I'm leading. Because of
the different skills involved, role reversal is also an interesting
technical exercise, and it keeps me humble whenever I see a good female
follower (in high heels, no less) lead better than I do...
Much tolerance and many enjoyable tangos to all,
Benjamin
elizabeth telson wrote:
>
> Ingrid, Astrid, and Everyone Else,
>
> I just finished reading your posting regarding female leads, and I am one of those who had an unfortunate experience regarding this issue. In fact, it almost destroyed my commitment to stick with this dance.
<snip>
> Well, when I arrived home and decided to check my e-mail, I found an e-mail from the instructor apologizing, which was the appropriate action to take on his part, but in the closure of the message, I was urged to take classes with the other fine instructors in the area, which, of course, I have done and I have no regrets about the move. I love my new instructors and their teaching methods.
<snip>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 00:00:15 -1000
From: Ingrid Peterson <georgous1@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Female Leaders
Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote that he feels as though women
have nothing to learn from leading- with relation to following better.
Hmmm. . . I would, of course, have to disagree with that. Honestly, I
beleive that most of what you said in your last email was quite vague and
already assumed by most people who dance tango.
Of course there are circumstances where I would NEVER lead another woman
around the dance floor, I understand that there are some traditions that are
much bigger than I can imagine, and I respect them. I just think that women
shouldn`t have to deal with male macho jerks frothing at the mouth demeaning
the experience of learning to lead. God knows they don`t get it when they
learn to dance with other men. It`s a double standard and it sucks!
There is a saying that goes, don`t let one rotton apple spoil the entire
basket. And that is what I apply to women leads and male follows. Of
course, not every dancer is at the same level . . . of course, I like to
dance with some of my female friends who lead because they are BETTER at it
than a lot of men I know. The same applies to men that I know who follow.
It shouldn`t be a matter of sex when you are just trying to dance. . .
I want you all to know the reasons why I lead. First, and foremost, my
teacher insisted that women learned to lead and that men learned to follow.
Of course, not all women and men liked the idea, but I feel as though these
students have a better understanding of the dance that we call tango.
Secondly, I love to dance. I don`t care if I`m leading, following, frickin`
dancing by myself in the corner, as long as I can dance. I`m tired of
having to wait for some guy to come over and ask me to dance! Too much time
is spent warming up the bloody seats by women at milongas. . . men, how many
of you would like to go to a milonga only to find out that before 99% of the
women actually get around to asking you to dance is only after one soul is
brave enough to ask you to dance and show off your skills. . .but it isn`t
until people have seen that you actually can dance, will they take the
chance to ask you to dance??? Welcome to what women do every bloody day all
around the world. I got fed up, so I dance to dance. . . man, woman, alien,
I don`t care!!
I just won`t stand for the bloody abuse that we women get for standing up
for ourselves!
Ingrid.
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 00:03:34 -1000
From: Ingrid Peterson <georgous1@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Female Leaders
And in the end: let me be honest, it is great to be on the steering wheel
sometimes, picking the rhythm and the steps, a more outward, more poignant
creativity, being one with the music in an other sense, which at some
evenings suits my mood much more. I know quite some male dancers who like to
relax and be 'carried' around once in a while.
Petra- bravo my dear!!!! * clapping wildly *
Ingrid.
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:35:29 -0800
From: Marisa Holmes <mariholmes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Female Leaders
Petra says:
> And in the end: let me be honest, it is great to be
> on the steering wheel
> sometimes, picking the rhythm and the steps, a more
> outward, more poignant
> creativity, being one with the music in an other
> sense,
And Ingrid agrees. And so do I. Brava! As a dancer
who did improvisational dance before, I have been very
interested in the possibilities of the lead in tango.
And I just plain like it. I like following, too, but
(speaking as a new-ish tanguera who mostly dances with
other newish dancers) when I lead I at least feel that
I'm making my own mistakes.
As an additional point, I actually feel I'm getting my
money's worth from lessons when I pay to study the
lead. I am getting pretty tired of going to a class
as a follower, paying the same as the leaders, and not
getting one single word of personal advice from the
instructor in a lesson that runs an hour and a half.
Can she not so much as tell me (*again*) to reach back
from my hip? Can she not give me some piece of advice
about how to correct the balance problem she
identified three weeks ago when she used me as a demo
dummy?
For goodness sakes! When I study the lead, the
instructor is all over my posture, my timing, my
balance, my breathing. When I study the follow, I may
as well not be present. And I am talking about three
separate regular instructors and a number of visiting
teachers, so the immediate answer is not to change
teachers. I am currently convinced that the problem
exists throughout the American tango scene (at least).
There is no question in my mind why women study the
lead. I only wonder why any of them persist in
following long enough to learn to get any pleasure out
of it.
In irritation,
Marisa
Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 22:32:25 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG>
Subject: Re: Female Leaders
Marisa Homes wrote:
>
>As an additional point, I actually feel I'm getting my
>money's worth from lessons when I pay to study the
>lead. I am getting pretty tired of going to a class
>as a follower, paying the same as the leaders, and not
>getting one single word of personal advice from the
>instructor in a lesson that runs an hour and a half.
>Can she not so much as tell me (*again*) to reach back
>from my hip? Can she not give me some piece of advice
>about how to correct the balance problem she
>identified three weeks ago when she used me as a demo
>dummy?
>
>For goodness sakes! When I study the lead, the
>instructor is all over my posture, my timing, my
>balance, my breathing. When I study the follow, I may
>as well not be present. And I am talking about three
>separate regular instructors and a number of visiting
>teachers, so the immediate answer is not to change
>teachers. I am currently convinced that the problem
>exists throughout the American tango scene (at least).
> There is no question in my mind why women study the
>lead. I only wonder why any of them persist in
>following long enough to learn to get any pleasure out
>of it.
I would encourage you to continue with the lead. It helps you
understand the dance better, and makes you less dependent on the
leaders, especially when you get someone inexperienced who does
something wrong. You can at least turn him around and show him what
it should be.
The issue of instruction directed at leaders is definitely real, but
beware, because it is also a little misleading. There are several
angles to this.
(1) We always need more leaders and it is a longer road, so perhaps
instruction IS better directed at creating more leaders...
(2) The initiating or directing aspect of tango comes from the
leader. It is structural; without the leader initiating something,
nothing happens. A teacher is somewhat dependent on imposing some
kind of structure or style on the leaders, even if they hope it goes
further than that.
(3) What the leader does is EXTERNAL. It is easy for an
un-imaginative teacher to teach "things"...steps, figures, patterns,
etc. This is especially true for those who learned with the dreaded 8
Count Basic. Their leads to a structural vision of tango; they can't
imagine it being done otherwise. Look at the high percentage of
traveling teachers who come from a stage background. They learn
choreography very easily, so they teach to their strengths...perhaps
not what the students need.
(4)Teaching to followers is completely different from teaching to
leaders. If we lived in mature tango communities with lots of good
male dancers, the women could just get passed from one great leader
to the next, and take a few privates with good teachers.
(5) The follower's role is more intuitive, more internal by nature.
It is very possible to learn a ton of stuff visually and
kinesthetically without ever having explicit words of correction. I
have heard precisely your complaint from a "relatively experienced"
woman who had just sat through a weekend workshop where she had 6
hours in which to watch a truly beautiful argentine dancer show just
how exquisite the dance can be. I wondered to myself why she hadn't
been using those six hours to extract every nuance of style from the
visitor.
All the above things are sort of an apologia or justification of
teaching toward the leaders, but it needn't be that way. In the end,
your criticism is correct, but perhaps not for the reasons you were
compelled to write.
Tango is an intuitive, lead-follow dance for both men and women. If
the teachers focus on steps for the guys, or just "technique", they
are failing both the men and the women.
Watch truly gifted teachers. What they offer is how to DANCE, not how
to execute steps. The deep learning is about connection, lead-follow,
getting into your body, finding the music.
Tango in this sense is NOT about teaching the guys how to "do" stuff.
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:33:10 -0800
From: Elemer Dubrovay <dubrovay@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Fw: Female leaders
--- Brian Taylor <briantaylor990@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> The 'coldest' dancers in my opinion are "some of"
> the female leaders. They
> seem to be cold while leading other women but
> frequently they are even worse
> when dancing as followers with a man. They go
> through the motions as
> described by Astrid but without any feeling.
*******
Two or three ladies in this area started leading some time ago and Brian
Taylor describes perfectly what happen to them; I even have some video
tapes that show how well they where dancing before they started with the
leading, now when dancing with a man their mind is occupied in learning
what he is doing when he is leading and when dancing with a woman in
trying to remember how to lead.
Elemer in Redmond
