2712  Flat Footed walk

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:42:00 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Flat Footed walk

Bernhard says: "i agree with your comparison of salon and
milonguero style in every other aspect, except I'm not sure about the
flat footedness..."

Other members have asked what do I mean by "flat footed".

You know that in tango salon most people walk caressing the floor with the
feet, brushing heels as one foot passes the other. There is some external
rotation of the entire leg that causes the toes to point out about 30
degrees, the foot lands on its toes.

A minority of people (Jose Vazquez, Lampazo, for instance and his school)
walk without external rotation of the leg and land on the heel . This form
of walking is as, or perhaps more elegant than the other one but increases
problems with equilibrium (mostly in the elderly dancers).

Milonguero, According to Susana Miller, walks flat footed and with some
separation of the feet (the feet do not brush as they pass each other).

Flat footed means that (as it is done in many Latin Dances) as you walk you
land on the whole of the foot (ball of the foot and heel).

My impression (other dancers may have a different opinion) is that if you
learn Milonguero style first, you will remain dancing that style for ever.
It will be very unlikely that you will have interest or ability to dance in
any other style.

If you learn Salon first, this gives you the base to learn any of the other
styles with ease.

Many dancers that do milonguero (like myself) learnt salon first and have a
tendency to do milonguero with Salon style walk.

Summary: many dancers of milonguero style dance in a different way than the
one by me described before. I find irrelevant to mention the differences
existing among " milonguero style" teachers at this time.

There is some tendency on the part of dancers that are
familiar with different styles to mix and combine. It seems to me that, in
this respect tango is like a river that starts having one course then it
branches into several channels to recombine again into one different course
than the one it started with. I have called this last process "Syncretism".

There is already one set of tapes by Elina Roldan and Julio Mendez, in
which they teach a combination of Salon Style with Nuevo Tango. They call
"Salon tango , in general" a close embrace style when compared with the
extremely open Nuevo Tango. :))

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:30:31 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Flat Footed walk

Sergio Vandekier defined the walk in milonguero and salon styles and then
wrote:

"Summary: many dancers of milonguero style dance in a different way than the
one by me described before. I find irrelevant to mention the differences
existing among "milonguero style" teachers at this time."

From what is written above it follows that the definition of the style might
fall apart hence the convenient irrelevance.

and

"It will be very unlikely that you will have interest or ability to dance in
any other style."

I agree with possible lack of interest but where does the lack of ability
come from?

Cheers, Oleh K.
https://TangoSpring.com

>From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: [TANGO-L] Flat Footed walk
>Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:42:00 +0000
>
>Bernhard says: "i agree with your comparison of salon and
>milonguero style in every other aspect, except I'm not sure about the
>flat footedness..."
>
>Other members have asked what do I mean by "flat footed".
>
>You know that in tango salon most people walk caressing the floor with the
>feet, brushing heels as one foot passes the other. There is some external
>rotation of the entire leg that causes the toes to point out about 30
>degrees, the foot lands on its toes.
>
>A minority of people (Jose Vazquez, Lampazo, for instance and his school)
>walk without external rotation of the leg and land on the heel . This form
>of walking is as, or perhaps more elegant than the other one but increases
>problems with equilibrium (mostly in the elderly dancers).
>
>Milonguero, According to Susana Miller, walks flat footed and with some
>separation of the feet (the feet do not brush as they pass each other).
>
>Flat footed means that (as it is done in many Latin Dances) as you walk you
>land on the whole of the foot (ball of the foot and heel).
>
>My impression (other dancers may have a different opinion) is that if you
>learn Milonguero style first, you will remain dancing that style for ever.
>It will be very unlikely that you will have interest or ability to dance in
>any other style.
>
>If you learn Salon first, this gives you the base to learn any of the other
>styles with ease.
>
>Many dancers that do milonguero (like myself) learnt salon first and have a
>tendency to do milonguero with Salon style walk.
>
>Summary: many dancers of milonguero style dance in a different way than the
>one by me described before. I find irrelevant to mention the differences
>existing among " milonguero style" teachers at this time.
>
> There is some tendency on the part of dancers that are
>familiar with different styles to mix and combine. It seems to me that, in
>this respect tango is like a river that starts having one course then it
>branches into several channels to recombine again into one different course
>than the one it started with. I have called this last process
>"Syncretism".
>
>There is already one set of tapes by Elina Roldan and Julio Mendez, in
>which they teach a combination of Salon Style with Nuevo Tango. They call
>"Salon tango , in general" a close embrace style when compared with the
>extremely open Nuevo Tango. :))
>

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:22:43 -0400
From: Jennifer Bratt <gwynhefaire@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Not brushing your feet (was: Flat Footed walk)

I liked Sergio's post on mistaken ideas and think he's right about most of
those fallacies. The different tango styles have much more in common with
each other than they have differences and it really is all one dance.

One thing I would like to clarify is that I don't know any good dancers of
any style who walk without brushing their their feet/legs past each other.
The only people who walk (waddle) with space between their legs are
beginners and babies with wet diapers ;)

Nor have I ever heard any teacher teach people to walk with their legs
apart, not even the infamous Susana Miller. She herself teaches people to
brush their legs as they walk and to quote her directly 'caress their own
axis'.

Certain 'milonguero' teachers (Cacho, Susana and others) teach the men to
sometimes stand on two feet when they pause (resting the free leg on the
ground like a kickstand) for increased stability. Gavito - King of the
Dramatic Pause - teaches this technique as well and says the man should use
the free foot on the ground the way a ballet dancer uses a hand on the barre
for increased balance. The more space between your feet the wider your base
and the more stable you will be. The more crowded the floor or the less
balanced your follower is, the more useful it is to have space between your
feet when you pause. You are forming a tripod between your two feet and
your follower's one foot. I don't think this is any less elegant than
standing with your feet right next to each other.

The follower never stands on two feet in any style of tango.

I would also like to add --

Fallacy # 12: "Milonguero" style tango is ugly, and people who do it don't
care about looking nice.

Again, it's all one tango and tango of any style when done right looks and
feels beautiful. I could watch a milonguero dance all night. And yes, the
number one concern of the guys who dance this style is the woman in their
arms (just like the good dancers of salon or whatever style), but you can't
tell me men of the milonguero persuasion never pay attention to their
'audience' -- the people on the sidelines who watch them. They're only
human after all and what human doesn't have a touch of vanity? I was at
Confiteria Ideal about a year ago and my friend had a video camera. You
should have seen Ricardo Vidort (one of the most well known milongueros) and
others showing off for us once they realized they were being filmed! (I
don't mean this in a bad way, and they were all amazing dancers by the way.)

abrazos,
Jennifer
NYC
* * * * * * * * *
www.close-embrace.com
jennifer@close-embrace.com

>From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: [TANGO-L] Flat Footed walk
>Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:42:00 +0000
>
>You know that in tango salon most people walk caressing the floor with the
>feet, brushing heels as one foot passes the other. There is some external
>rotation of the entire leg that causes the toes to point out about 30
>degrees, the foot lands on its toes.
>
>Milonguero, According to Susana Miller, walks flat footed and with some
>separation of the feet (the feet do not brush as they pass each other).

>Summary: many dancers of milonguero style dance in a different way than the
>one by me described before. I find irrelevant to mention the differences
>existing among " milonguero style" teachers at this time.
>
> There is some tendency on the part of dancers that are
>familiar with different styles to mix and combine. It seems to me that, in
>this respect tango is like a river that starts having one course then it
>branches into several channels to recombine again into one different course
>than the one it started with. I have called this last process
>"Syncretism".
>

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:38:04 EDT
From: Battbop@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Flat Footed walk

Does anyone on the list know where I may find a copy of the 1956 tango
recording called "Capricho de Amor" by Dizzy Gillespie and Osvaldo Fresedo?
Batt Johnson - New York