955 greetings; shoe dilemma
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:22:04 -0800
From: a tango newbie <tangaux02@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: greetings; shoe dilemma
Hello to all,
I'm a relative newbie to tango, and even newer to this list. I confess that I have been lurking for the past few weeks at Tango-L, and I enjoy what I have been reading. Keep it up!
Now, a story about shoes:
When I first started out in tango, after some heavy online research, I bought a pair of Dancesport T-straps in New York. They were the first dance shoes I owned, and I was taken with the flexibility of the soles. But, being a straight-up beginner, I had to admit that I was having trouble negotiating the slender 2.5" heels. But in time, I learned to work with them, and for many months, those shoes served me well.
I recently laid them aside in favor of a new pair of shoes for practice. With only an inch heel or so, they're great for stability. However, I now have the habit of not touching my heels to the floor when I dance (I guess because of placing my weight forward with the higher heel?). And I have to admit, although these shoes are great for comfort, I feel a little self-conscious bringing them to a milonga because their height so obviously marks them as practice shoes.
With the Dancesports, on the other hand, I don't feel that they are helpful anymore. Being a supinator, I wear out soles (and heels) on the outside edge. The result is that the DS shoe rocks from side to side, which negatively affects my balance. It's gotten to the point where I've actually tripped (!!) on the dance floor while wearing them.
The obvious choice, I suppose, would be to get tango shoes with a thicker heel. I have an idea of which kind I want to get. But tango shoes are not a cheap investment, so I'm trying to save up for them. At the earliest, I might buy them in a couple of months. But in the meantime, what should I do?
On one hand, I feel some nostalgia for my Dancesports because hey, these are the shoes I started my addiction with. But I feel like they're a bit dangerous. I've considered heel savers and possibly, re-soling them. But is it worth it? Would it help anything?
As for my other shoes, I'm learning to put my heel down with them (not transferring weight to the heel, of course), but I have the sneaking suspicion this would be easier with a higher heel? Is it true? And like I mentioned before, there's the self-consciousness-at-milongas bit, although I imagine that could be easily surpassed. As long as the shoes are comfy and I can pivot in them, what else matters?
Whew! Sorry this was so long. It's possible I might have answered a lot of my own questions, but any advice would be appreciated.
Till then, I remain (hopefully for not too long),
ATN (A Tango Newbie)
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:23:46 -0800
From: Rick FromPdx <bugsbunny1959@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: greetings; shoe dilemma
I get a good quality pair of walking shoes (~$50 or so) & using construction
adhesive &/or contact cement, glue leather to the bottoms. The shoes are
good for about 4,5 years if you dance 5x/week. I've danced 10 hours straight
3 days in a row at the NW Folklife Festival in Seattle every year & my feet
are in great shape. If I can't dance almost every night, this current life
comes screeching to a halt. Hope this helps...
Rick
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 23:12:40 -0900
From: Dan Boccia <redfox@ALASKA.NET>
Subject: Re: weighting your heel (was: greetings; shoe dilemma)
A Tango Newbie wrote:
"> ...As for my other shoes, I'm learning to put my heel down with them
(not transferring
> weight to the heel, of course)..."
Any particular reason NOT to put weight on your heels? Especially when
walking and not doing pivots?
As a leader, I love to feel the floor through my follower's feet, and
that's not possible if they're not getting their heels on the floor. I
like the quality of the walk when the follower is placing their whole
foot on the floor - it feels stable and secure and transmits an air of
confidence that is much to my liking.
When I'm following, I love the stability and solid quality of movement
that is achieved by having the entire foot on the ground.
When pivoting (as a leader or follower), I like to feel my heel brushing
the floor, so in fact, ideally, my heel never leaves the floor, and I
can weight the heel to stop the pivot instantly. Conversely, if I am in
the habit of pivoting with the heel brushing the floor, the transition
from fully weighted to pivoting is nearly instantaneous.
Dan
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 17:39:10 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: greetings; shoe dilemma
I am watching in growing amazement men giving a woman advice how to dance in
high heels.
Have you ever actually tried wearing women's shoes, you guys, do you know
what it feels like, and what kind of movements it necessitates from the
wearer in tango?
Before we even start trying to get into a discussion of whether there is a
difference or not between wearing high heels and dancing in a flat men's
shoe, let me tell you there is. A huge difference.
And yes, dear Newbie, flat shoes, dancesneakers and all that are
comfortable, but you will end up walking with your heels in the air, because
you are walking backwards most of the time, and keeping your body in a
diagonal position too.
Being able to keep your heels on the floor is facilitated by wearing 3 inch
heels, which, on the other hand, will more or less damage your feet and give
you bunions eventually, unless your are one of those few lucky people with
indestructible feet, high arches, short toes, strong bones, strong tendons,
and years of experience wearing high heels without much damage.
Also, 3 inches or 7,5cm is a dizzying (and painful) height for someone who
has never worn high heels before, and your ankles will wobble when you try
to stand up, usually, which gets worse, when you walk and try to dance, and
you end up leaning on the man for support, which is not appreciated by most,
even if they do not tell you..
Still, there are ways to facilitate an elegant, balanced way of dancing
without having to walk in pain for two days after every practica, and my
solution which I eventually came to has been this:
> You should consider getting shoes from www.tarashoes.com
> For me,they are the best,and I have tried dance shoes from Argentina,
England, Italy and Japan.
> They are having a clearance sale, 100$ per shoe,right now, Tara wrote to
the
> list.
> I highly recommend the suede malenas with the 2,5" antique heel (wide
enough for a beginner
> to not stumble nor wobble.)
> Do take care of your feet, they can easily get ruined by dancing tango AND
> wearing bad shoes, so invest in a good pair of shoes, and do foot
exercises (toe spreading, ankle rolling etc.) after you come home.
> Read all the Q&A stuff on Tara's website about how the shoes are made for
> more comfort. They keep a long time. Most other shoes keep only 6 months
or
> so,they loosen, they become unstable, undone, etc. And even slightly too
loose shoes ruin your balance again.
> Malenas stretch a bit too, but only enough to accomodate your foot, and
you
> can put in a pad later.
> By the way, the Novia are brilliant, when you are a better dancer. The
> stilletto (tango) heel is amazingly stable, I would have never believed
it. > And they do not stretch. But they are 3" high, and you have to get
used to
> the height gradually, if you wear flat shoes like me, in a daily life.
However, it is extremely painful to get stepped on by a stiletto heel, so be
careful to keep enough distance from the people dancing near you at all
times,and stay away from leaders who navigate poorly and may walk you right
into the couple behind you.
>
> Astrid
>
P.S.
I have no business interest in any of this.
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 03:15:09 -0600
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: shoe dilemma
This isn't at all an answer to Tango Newbies question, but I've been
thinking of this lately as more people ask me where to buy shoes.
I somehow think that the idea of buying expensive shoes in the hopes that
this will be the answer to solving our tango dancing problems is a bit,
well... naive. Did the Argentines invest in expensive shoes exclusively for
tango dancing (before the rest of the world gave them the idea)? Did they
even think to wear anything other than their street shoes? Do those who
spend more on their shoes, or own Argentine shoes, dance better?
Lois
> The obvious choice, I suppose, would be to get tango shoes with a
> thicker heel. I have an idea of which kind I want to get. But
> tango shoes are not a cheap investment, so I'm trying to save up
> for them. At the earliest, I might buy them in a couple of
> months. But in the meantime, what should I do?
>
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 18:44:54 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: shoe dilemma
Lois wrote:
Did the Argentines invest in expensive shoes exclusively for
> tango dancing (before the rest of the world gave them the idea)? Did they
> even think to wear anything other than their street shoes? Do those who
> spend more on their shoes, or own Argentine shoes, dance better?
Ah, the art of citing information about foreign cultures with all the
(intentional or unintentional) omissions to get the point across...
You did not tell the list, that "tango shoes" are modelled on what the
Argentines wear, or wore, in daily life anyway. It is, e.g., quite common
for Argentine women to wear high heels all of the time and therefore they
can just walk into a milonga and dance in them, too.
On the other hand, women in Europe and other places wear "pumps" without
straps, sneakers, tennis shoes, mocassins, mules, clogs, Birkenstock health
sandals, low heeled strappy sandals, flip flops...
Do you suggest, we dance in those ?
And in my experience, a good, well fitting shoe can make quite a difference
in tango, esp. in performing pivots.
Astrid
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 12:23:50 -0600
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: shoe dilemma
Astrid wrote:
> On the other hand, women in Europe and other places wear "pumps" without
> straps, sneakers, tennis shoes, mocassins, mules, clogs,
> Birkenstock health
> sandals, low heeled strappy sandals, flip flops...
> Do you suggest, we dance in those?
Actually, I have tangoed in most of these - not intentionally, but when the
opportunity is there, I can't resist! Don't forget bedroom slippers and bare
feet! :)
As dancers, our feet are very important, and we should take care of them. I
just don't think we should place so much importance on shoe's ability to
improve our technique. I know country western dancers who think boots are a
requirement. They'll ask if I can dance in those, pointing to my ballroom
shoes. Requiring shoes ups the cost of entry into our community, which can
too often have an elitist reputation anyway.
Lois
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 10:07:43 -0800
From: Rick FromPdx <bugsbunny1959@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: shoe dilemma
Astrid has a really good point here. I dress up as a woman for Halloween &
go dancing, but NOT in heels. The short twirly skirt is very comfortable &
fun. The brassiere is not, ugh. It feels like a cage & all the guys have a
blast grabbing, pinching, ha, ha, ha... Although it does feel so good to
take the damn thing off at the end of the night. Ahhhhhhhh.... I don't think
I could make it as a girl, too much rigamorale & acoutrements & I don't even
have the complicated plumbing. Plus you have to deal with men.
wrt. people spending lots of $$ to get outfitted before really learning to
dance, I've seen this quite a bit. Better to start simple & see if its
something to do for the long haul...
Rick
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 13:19:55 -0500
From: rtara <rtara@MAINE.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: shoe dilemma
How can I resist adding my opinions, after all Iım the shoe woman. I have
written on this subject before and will probably regale you with my views
again.
Shoes DO NOT make the dancer. Shoes DO make the dancer more comfortable,
secure, attractive, responsive and stable.
The cost of tango shoes (or dance shoes, in general) is between $80 and
$180., but you can buy a simple character shoe for less than $50. They are
pretty sturdy, have leather soles and if you add some padding, are fairly
comfortable.
Like everything else, you should make sure you are getting what you pay for.
You can buy a $100. shoe that is cheaply constructed of inferior materials
that will last 6 months. You can buy a shoe in Argentina for $25. (these
days) that is fairly well made, of average materials, that is more or less
comfortable and pretty. You can buy ballroom shoes for between $80 and $150
that are very flexible (some think, too flexible) and fairly comfortable
(especially if your foot is narrow). Erxpect them to stretch a lot and last
about 6 months. You can buy really finely made shoes for between $140 and
$160 that are designed and engineered for comfort and performance. They will
be made of high quality leathers, and will last years with the proper care.
Generally, the price reflects the quality, but be careful, this is not
always the case.
Robin Tara
https://www.22tangoshoes.com
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 15:41:13 -0500
From: Nicole Dowell <bailadora2000@EXCITE.COM>
Subject: Re: shoe dilemma
Dear Tango newbie,
There shouldn't be any reason why you can't find a pair of 2.5 - 3 inch heels in street shoes, and you could still dance in those, but... take in mind that one of things that goes into the design of "dance shoes" is not just in the heel or the sole, but the fit and support of the arch, so will save some comfort (however it's an expensive comfort I know, but worth the investment) by using "dance shoes".
Option 1: DanceSport shoes now come in a variety of heels, from 2 - 4 inches, with thin, flaired and wide heels, and can be custom designed if ordered online from any shoe vendor. I will recommend Internationals or Coast as some of my favorite for durability, comfort and style (Supadance is popular but in my experience they fall apart easily). Now, this is coming from a dance teacher who lives at least 4-5 hours a day, 7 days a week in 3 inch heels. So, I've search high and low in good quality and comfort shoes. Now, with a dancesport shoe you will normally get a suede bottom, which has it's benefits for any type of dancing. Suede bottoms work better on wood floors for speed and rotation, but could hinder you if you don't have good balance or grip on the floor. But remember on suede bottoms, you CANNOT get them wet, and buy a metal shoe brush from where you bought your shoes to "brush the bottoms". This keeps them from becoming too slippery. And yes, you can resole them over and over and over again wi
th no problems. Cost: $75-$125
Option 2: "Tango Shoes", from a vendor like Tara shoes. Now, I've heard a lot of people swear by these, but I particularly didn't find them comfortable at all...but that's just because of my feet. They were traditionally too narrow around the toes for my comfort. But most tango shoes come in leather bottoms, which limits the flexibility. This is one of the things I don't like about leather bottoms, but again, it's up to the comfort of your feet. Of course, leather bottoms work better on concrete floors (especially rougher concrete) than suede bottoms. Cost: $100 - $150
Option 3:(BEST OPTION) Buy your tango shoes directly from Argentina. Flabella is supposed to be a very good shoe. But if you order online, you won't save money. Best bet I have found is if you have a tango friend who is travelling to Argentina anytime soon, give them a outline of your foot, your American size (they can convert it), and specifics of what you are looking for and your friend can buy them and bring them to you. It will save you so much money if you are on a budget. Shoes range from $25 - $60 down there. See...you can buy 2 pairs now!!
But definately get into a higher heel, even if it's just 2.5 inches. Becuase right now you are testing your balance buy standing up on your toes, and putting extra stress on your foot.
Good luck! (if you need any specific website info, email me personally and I'll try and help).
Nicole
Miami, FL
--- On Wed 01/15, a tango newbie wrote:From: a tango newbie [mailto: tangaux02@YAHOO.COM]To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDUDate: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:22:04 -0800Subject: [TANGO-L] greetings; shoe dilemmaHello to all,I'm a relative newbie to tango, and even newer to this list. I confess that I have been lurking for the past few weeks at Tango-L, and I enjoy what I have been reading. Keep it up!Now, a story about shoes:When I first started out in tango, after some heavy online research, I bought a pair of Dancesport T-straps in New York. They were the first dance shoes I owned, and I was taken with the flexibility of the soles. But, being a straight-up beginner, I had to admit that I was having trouble negotiating the slender 2.5" heels. But in time, I learned to work with them, and for many months, those shoes served me well.I recently laid them aside in favor of a new pair of shoes for practice. With only an inch heel or so, they're great for stability. However, I now have the habit of not touching my heels t
o the floor when I dance (I guess because of placing my weight forward with the higher heel?). And I have to admit, although these shoes are great for comfort, I feel a little self-conscious bringing them to a milonga because their height so obviously marks them as practice shoes.With the Dancesports, on the other hand, I don't feel that they are helpful anymore. Being a supinator, I wear out soles (and heels) on the outside edge. The result is that the DS shoe rocks from side to side, which negatively affects my balance. It's gotten to the point where I've actually tripped (!!) on the dance floor while wearing them.The obvious choice, I suppose, would be to get tango shoes with a thicker heel. I have an idea of which kind I want to get. But tango shoes are not a cheap investment, so I'm trying to save up for them. At the earliest, I might buy them in a couple of months. But in the meantime, what should I do?On one hand, I feel some nostalgia for my Dancesports because hey, these are the shoes I start
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 13:15:22 +0100
From: Eero Olli <eero.olli@ISP.UIB.NO>
Subject: Re: shoe dilemma
At 09:00 17.01.2003, you wrote:
Dear Newbie
1) High heals tend to create damage in your feet if you dance much (more
than 10 hours a week). Therefore you should get yourself both high heals
and flat shoes for training.
2) There is a difference in walking technique for flat shoes and high
heels. You can pretend you have high heals and keep your heels up, but that
is cheating, and very few women are skilled enough to fake it well enough.
I think it is much better two learn two different walking techniques: you
probably need to calculate a month with short daily walking practice for
truly learning to know where your balance is with the new heal hight, and
thus changing your technique.
I know that there are many people out there who think that the only right
tango estetique is women on high heels, but there are many gorgeous dansers
who dance in sneakers and keep grounded. However, there is no need to
argue about what looks best. I am merely saying that get both high heels
and the flat shoues, and learn the correct technique for both, and then
save your high heels for the special occacions. However, if you do not
dance much, and are not willing to invest in regular walking practices,
stick with one heel size.
Sincerely,
Eero
