1711  Hands, shest, body, axis, legs, styles

Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:11:55 -0400
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Hands, shest, body, axis, legs, styles

John said:

"And all the while I have been dancing Tango I was under
the impression that my style (#2 below) was known as "Salon/
open embrace" and #1 below was known as "Milonguero/
Appillado/Close Embrace"!

You learn something every day :<)"

***He thought that salon and open embrace are synonymous.

This is another misconception entrenched in wide circles outside Argentina.

The truth is that Salon Tango is danced in close embrace. The frame is off
to the man's left. His right nipple placed on the woman's chest bone.
This frame has a closed side (the right arm of the man on the back of the
lady) and an open side, (the left arm of the man and the right of the lady).
This is important as reference on stage for instance when you wish to show
the 'close' side or the 'open' side of the couple to the public.

There is close embrace, the chests remain in contact during great part of
the dance, but can be transiently opened to allow the execution of certain
figures.

An example: The dance starts in close embrace, the chests touching or with
a 'narrow light', the rt. arm of the man around the back of the lady beyond
the spine line and most frequently with the rt.hand placed in the
rt.axillary area of the follower. (this may not be possible due to the
lady's anatomical characteristics). The woman has her rt. arm around the
neck of the man. (if she is short this hand rests on the man's lt. shoulder
or lower, on his arm). The knees somewhat bent (arrugue). The feet caress
the floor. They walk, do ochos, change front, etc. When the leader needs
more space to execute a certain figure he opens the embrace releasing his
rt. arm and leading the lady to open the embrace, she slides her rt. arm
from around his neck to his upper lt. arm. The frame is suddenly wide
allowing comfortable space to move.
When the figure is finished he may retake a close embrace. The arms and
hands are placed where they were before. We could speak of an elastic
relationship that is closed most of the time but stretches as needed.

Summary: salon style allows all possibilities, including dancing 'Liso'
simple in close embrace, something not far from milonguero but with another
personality, or open with some 'light' during 'close embrace' and a wider
opening during the executions of certain figures.

Its lead has all the elements of the leads used in other styles but it is
richer, as it uses the body, the chest, and if you wish 'spiritually' or
otherwise 'your center' whatever that may be, something similar to feeling
with your heart or your soul, but also the arms, the hands and even the legs
to achieve the execution of more complex figures than the ones used in
milonguero. These leads are delicate, clearly perceived by the follower and
unnoticed by the rest of the dancers on the floor. The result is a magical
dance full of variations in character and personality, with stormy moments,
peaceful sunny mornings, diaphanous mildew droplets on the flowers and
quiet sunsets. Falling into a repetitive routine as it can happen in
milonguero is extremely difficult but it may occur. Some 'green' leaders
could be harsh when leading changes in embrace causing the lady to 'wake
up', this is very unfortunate.

Milonguero has many names, confiteria, apilado, del centro, club, close
embrace, salon, are some of them. Notice that salon used by people like
Tete, or close embrace could be very misleading.

This dance style is formed by certain moves taken from the wider repertoire
of Salon tango. Moves specifically selected so that dance in close, crowded
spaces is possible. This requires short steps (salon steps could be long,
short or in between), dancing in place, (salon can be danced in place or in
a progressive mood), close embrace (salon allows alternation of the
embrace), it is very limited with respect to choreographic options, it does
no matter what the instructor wants you to believe) (salon has unlimited
possibilities), etc, etc, etc.

Milonguero is necessary to be able to dance in crowded places and also to
interpret the music of certain orchestras, to dance to non-tango music. It
is important to know its technique, those that learn salon first (IMO) learn
milonguero very easily (except for the apilado). The apilado is a posture
and a frame typical of milonguero difficult to master.
Great number of those that lean milonguero first, (IMO) remain dancing
there for ever, unable to understand salon or to take the trouble to learn
the necessary skills to master it. Milonguero is easy, gets you dancing in
less time and it is very gratifying.
PS. did I day etc. yet?

Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 12:55:57 -0700
From: Robert Hauk <robhauk@TELEPORT.COM>
Subject: Re: Hands, shest, body, axis, legs, styles

Hey everybody,

There has been a lot of talk about whether one leads with hands, chest,
or whatever.

First I will say that a good leader leads with his or her whole body.
You use whatever is necessary to communicate clearly with your partner.
The movement must be natural and clear so that your partner doesn't have
to spend time figuring out what you want.

The term 'leading' may actually bring people to a misunderstanding of
what we are doing. A better description might be guiding and
accompanying. This explains better what both the leader and follower
are doing.

When I am leading well I spend much more time accompanying my partner's
movement, following her really, than I spend 'leading' or guiding her
movement. Often when I am moving my chest, I am not leading so much as
accomidating her movement, or making space for her movement.

As Jonathan said we have to be careful in what we say because there are
people reading who will take our words literally. Some people out there
are now trying to lead tango without using their hands at all, without
moving their hips at all, trying to lead only with their chests, or
tryint to lead using only their shoulders... These people will have
along and painful road. We have to understand how our bodies work, and
use natural movement to dance well. Our chests, shoulders, arms, hands,
hips, legs, and feet are all connected, and they move together. in
leading we are dancing with a partner trying to move the unit as a four
footed creature.

We have to remember Barbara Garvey's caution about trying to teach tango
on an e-mail list. The more we talk and try to get specific, the less
we may end up knowing. To learn the fine art of painting one must
paint. To learn the fine art of dancing one must dance. You must spend
time on the dance floor, and instead of trying to do what others have
told you that you have to do, remember that when the movement is
natural, it will be comfortable and easy.

Teachers simplify to communicate, but it is different when the teacher
is in the room for you to see. When the teacher tells you not to move
your hips, watch and see how they intend you not to move your hips and
see how they indeed do move their hips. When a teacher tells you not to
lead with your hands, watch them to see how they intend you to use your
hands, when they tell you to lead with your chest, watch how they do
it. The phrases they say are intended to help illustrate what they do.
If you take the phrase only without the visual feedback you are very
likely to get confused.

A written forum is good for talking about things like history, or which
orchestra played what song, or song lyrics and such. It has a limitted
use for discussing a physical activity.

Happy, comfortable, well lead, well followed, deep trance tangos to all,

Robert

Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 11:12:30 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Hands, shest, body, axis, legs, styles

Robert Hauk wrote:

>Teachers simplify to communicate, but it is different when the
>teacher is in the room for you to see. When the teacher tells
>you [something], watch and see how they intend you [to do it].

I think in most cases, Robert is right. However, I know a few cases where
one needs to be careful.

Many years ago, I was taking lessons from an instructor who had been a tap
dancer before he began dancing tango, and he liked to pump his feet upward
in his walk to keep time. After a week fo lessons with him, I began
copying his foot motion. After watching me one day, he said, "Keep your
feet closer to the floor. Where did you learn to pump your feet in the
air to keep time?"

There are also instructors who demonstrate their movements one way but
dance another. They will often insist that their students execute the
movements the way that they demonstrate rather than the way they dance.

With best regards,
Steve

Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/