580 how to dance fashionably (?)
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 17:41:37 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: how to dance fashionably (?)
Ok, can anyone tell me what steps are in fashion right now, so that I can
update my dance accordingly ?
By all means, we do not want to look old fashioned, when we dance to De
Caro, do we ?
Another question: Is there enough time to take my shoes off and put them
back on during a parada ? Can I still do amagues or are they out of fashion
too? How do I hide the soles of my shoes during boleos ? Oh, how unsettling
to think of committing one faux pas after another at tonight's milonga...
Astrid
glued to live TV, and not at ungodly hours like during the last FIFA
> It is just as much so to show the bottom of your shoes
> to another dancer, according to a few of the older
> "Tanguero's".
> D~
>
> > Stephen Brown wrote:
> > In a recent workshop I attended, the instructors
> > included this
> > embellishment among those that are considered out of
> > fashion in Buenos
> > Aires. They described some steps and embellishments
> > as being from the 80s
> > or 90s. They described the leg rub as never having
> > been in fashion.
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 12:35:05 +0200
From: Chris Luethen <christian.luethen@GMX.NET>
Subject: Re: how to dance fashionably (?)
On 2 Jun 2002, at 17:41, astrid wrote:
> How do I hide the soles of my shoes during boleos ?
From my non-boleo-performing-but-only-watching-them-male/leader-
position: I'd guess a boleo would have to be performed so fast that
the human eye would not be able to resolute "each frame", to say
when you want to catch a glimpse of the sole the foot would
allready be back on the ground.
Christian
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 11:04:17 -0700
From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM>
Subject: Re: how to dance fashionably (?)
>.Can I still do amagues or are they out of fashion
>too? How do I hide the soles of my shoes during boleos ?
Well, this at least is an easy one. The folks who don't want to see the
soles of your shoes when dancing tango are the same ones who wouldn't dream
of anyone doing a high boleo or high amague on the social dance floor. And I
imagine this still goes among the more traditional milongueros in BA, the
dozen or so that are left.
I have to feel that anyone who thinks the Golden Age tangos are dead must be
missing a lot of the essence of tango. Much of contemporary tango music is
great for listening, for which it was intended--I don't dance to Coltrane.
Having listened to and danced tango even longer than Larry I have never
tired of the great old standards and find that the milongas that play the
same music played in Buenos Aire are the most enjoyable. On the other hand,
we also love to dance to some of the bands that play their own versions of
dance music, NY Tango Trio, Dan Diaz, Color Tango. Of course I am a really
'old' milonguera myself, no doubt totally out of fashion, and never do high
boleos :-), but am not ready to quit yet !
Barbara
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 03:08:21 -0400
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Music, was: how to dance fashionably (?)
----- Original Message -----
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 09:47:41 -0400
From: Georgia Littleton <glit10go@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: how to dance fashionably (?)
>From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM>
>Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 11:04:17 -0700
>Well, this at least is an easy one. The folks who don't want to see the
>soles of your shoes when dancing tango are the same ones who wouldn't dream
>of anyone doing a high boleo or high amague on the social dance floor. And
>I
>imagine this still goes among the more traditional milongueros in BA, the
>dozen or so that are left.
Indeed, Barbara. I expect people to make assertions of style and taste.
It's a living art form, after all. I also expect tastes to change over
time. To say that such and such a step is "out of fashion" may seem
incongruous when relating it to old music, but nevertheless makes sense to
me considering that people are living and dancing right now. When there is
a consensus of taste, suddenly you have a fashion. It shouldn't be
surprising that there are fashions in Buenas Aires.
I like being exposed to ideas whether they are about clothes, hair or
dancing. Those ideas may even have an effect on me, although I'm not a
slave to fashion. I don't have to get in a snit when someone puts down
something I like. Their own expression may be something unique beautiful to
behold, even if I wouldn't embrace it myself. On the other hand, they might
pursuade me to evolve.
Ultimately, my dance is my dance, and my own taste also contributes to that
consensus called fashion.
That's what Georgia says.
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 15:34:32 -0300
From: SMC Administracion <adm@SMCAR.COM.AR>
Subject: how to dance fashionably
Georgia Littleton wrote:
" Ultimately, my dance is my dance, and my own taste also contributes to
that consensus called fashion.
o dance fashionably (?)
"
Yes ,Georgia, furthermore, your own taste is the confirmation of that
fashion or dance fashionably.
Is there a fashion in tango dancing ?? Janis "Pichi" Kenyon has made an
excellent description of the types of milonga venues in Buenos Aires : "
Salon de baile -Confiteria bailable-Club de barrio -Baile joven -Aire libre"
. This could give to the person that wants to assist a milonga ,what she/he
could expect once inside. Want to dance with strict codes, music from the
40´s ? Then check for Salon de baile .
Want to bring with you friends that do not dance tango , but would like to
see ´what is this tango bug´and dance some salsa ? Then check for Baile
joven. And so on .
Another posting at this list says that there is no way in introducing
another tang music than the "traditional" ones (i.e. the Big Eight
Canaro-Calo-D ´Arienzo-Di Sarli-Pugliese -Tanturi-Troilo-Los Angeles). But ,
once you start digging a bit on the "traditional", you find some queries to
yourself
a) What Di Sarli ?? He had three orchestras , the two previous one left him
alone due to his demanding insistence for perfection on playing .They sound
different one from each other.
b) What Canaro ? The one of the Quinteto Pirincho? The one of the tipica ?
The one with Gardel or Nelly Omar ?
c) Tanturi.Tanturi with Campos ? Or with Castillo ? And if you choose both ,
once you listen Castillo, how about some milongas candomberas?
d) Troilo .Allow me to stand up for a moment , friends (literally, I am
standing from my chair ,bowing , and sitting again ).His orchestras, singers
and compositions
e) Pugliese . Once again, a deeper bow . A master . But ... He played at the
Orchestra of Laurenz, should we miss some of this recordings in a dancing
night ??
As you may see, "fashion" becames a tricky word. You try to set some
"traditional" music , and it seems the "traditionals" musicians are russian
dolls, you open one , and find connections with another orchestras ,
musicians and singers.
It is very hard to be a DJ and fulfill all your audience at a dancing night
. I am just an amateur DJ, and I am preparing some material for june 29th ,
for an evening at the place that gently allows our tango school to use their
premises ( The Italian Society of San Martin). It is supposed that the
students of the school will take care of the music and dancing for the
meeting, and the members of the board of the Society wants tango music to be
the "music to dance" . So I bring every class some DJ´s from my house and
see what happens with the students , i.e. wether they like or not the music.
Surprisingly (or not) the basic students reacted ( reacted means that they
keep dancing four or five pieces , within the same ´tanda´, otherwise , if
they do not like or do not understand the music, they simply stop dancing).
I think it is very difficult to have everybody satisfied . Fashion is a
tricky word for tango music, there are people still resenting Piazzolla
being played at some milongas . But I brought some recordings from his first
orchestras (1946-1948) , and there were general aceptance.
Tango student, is another tricky word. Maybe they are learning to dance, but
some of them , are > 50 , and knows a lot of tango music, much more that
myself, that started with this tango bug out of Zero , so you have to listen
with patience, why this orchestra is better than the other one, and , " how
about that Milonga from D ´Arienzo ? Can you bring it for the next class ??"
.
I say patience, and not impatience. You have to listen carefully, this
people can bring you some pieces of information that makes your amateur work
of DJ a fascinating digging into this russian dolls that the tango musicians
and composers are.
Welll, I leave you know, I have to dig for some tangos from the Orchestra of
Pedro Laurenz, singer Linares, Pugliese member of the band , one of the
"students" says it sounds great for dancing . He may be right , and ,
anyway, it is worth the digging :):)
Warm regards
Alberto Gesualdi
Buenos Aires.
p.s. Coco Chanel used to say that fashion was a big truck , where the
clothes of each year were thrown. And once each 30 years , the truck was
turne upside down , and the clothes of the bottom were used for the new
fashion of the coming year :):):):)
P.S.1. Any idea where is the tango truck :):):):)
> >From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM>
> >Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 11:04:17 -0700
>
> >Well, this at least is an easy one. The folks who don't want to see the
> >soles of your shoes when dancing tango are the same ones who wouldn't
dream
> >of anyone doing a high boleo or high amague on the social dance floor.
And
> >I
> >imagine this still goes among the more traditional milongueros in BA, the
> >dozen or so that are left.
>
> Indeed, Barbara. I expect people to make assertions of style and taste.
> It's a living art form, after all. I also expect tastes to change over
> time. To say that such and such a step is "out of fashion" may seem
> incongruous when relating it to old music, but nevertheless makes sense to
> me considering that people are living and dancing right now. When there
is
> a consensus of taste, suddenly you have a fashion. It shouldn't be
> surprising that there are fashions in Buenas Aires.
>
> I like being exposed to ideas whether they are about clothes, hair or
> dancing. Those ideas may even have an effect on me, although I'm not a
> slave to fashion. I don't have to get in a snit when someone puts down
> something I like. Their own expression may be something unique beautiful
to
> behold, even if I wouldn't embrace it myself. On the other hand, they
might
> pursuade me to evolve.
>
> Ultimately, my dance is my dance, and my own taste also contributes to
that
> consensus called fashion.
>
> That's what Georgia says.
>
>
>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 20:06:34 +0200
From: andy Ungureanu <Andy.Ungureanu@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Re: Music, was: how to dance fashionably (?)
Dear List,
I cant remember any record to be mentioned or discussed on this List as
often as "The revenge.." So I listened a few of the songs and its fine,
it grooves, but it is not tango! I could even imagine to dance some of
them at 5 in the morning, but I would never dare to play them.
What Manuel writes is the opinion of almost every experienced (5Y+)
dancer. There are allways the beginners who ask for "something new",
"not allways this old stuff", "don't you have something by Piazzola?"
and so on. One could think experienced dancers get bored by "the same
old stuff" one day, but the oposite is true. Strange, isn't it?
Thank you Manuel!
Andy
Manuel Patino wrote:
>
> More than ever now I believe that the right music is of incalculable
> importance at a milonga. I have to wonder why anybody would play undanceable
> tangos at the milonga? The golden era tangos are the "only" suitable music
> for a milonga, period. One of the most frustrating experiences I've had is
> trying to dance a a milonga where the DJ does not know or understand tango
> music. It is not about how big your collectiuon of CDs is or how clever your
> MP3 setup is done. It is all about the right Darienzo, Tanturi, Rodriguez,
> Agostino, Troilo, etc. There is a reason why you hear the same music played
> at the best milongas in Bs As and elsewhere. It works! the other "clever"
> DJs that come up with obscure versions of old standards or weird
> interpretations of classical danceable tango standards are doing a terrible
> thing. Please wake up and smell the coffee. Your esoteric and unusual
> choices are not heard in the good milongas for a very good reason, they
> suck!
>
> There are tons of tango DJ wannabees out there but precious few good DJs. It
> takes more than a big collection of obscure tangos to play for a good
> milonga. I have had to walk off the floor on many occasions because the
> music was so bad. Nothing worse than hearing a great old standard only to
> realize it is a weird version that changes tempo and character half way
> through the song. Fooled again! :P Also, please try to understand the
> crowd, please play the music to suit the flow of the evening. Please do not
> be "clever" or show your erudition at the milonga. Have a heart, let the
> people dance! Not all "old tangos" are created equal, take time to go to
> good milongas as in Bs As and take note of what those DJs play. There is
> nothing wrong with old classic golden era tango music, I never tire of
> dancing to it! Do not experiment or improvise with the music. Don't mess
> with the milonga!! Just like the dancer that tries high boleos of big stage
> sequences in the crowded dance floor, the DJ that plays "modern" Piazzolla
> or Gotan, or worse yet, other orchestras interpretations of "zero hour" or
> other similar pieces are doing violence to the milonga.
>
> As sick as I get of inconsiderate "show-off" dancers, I reserve my disdain
> (or is it pity?) for the DJs that "kill" milongas for me. I can navigate
> around bad dancers and avoid their "payasadas", but it's impossible for me
> to either listen to or worse yet dance to bad tango (or non-tango) music.
>
>
> Manuel
>
>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:06:09 -0500
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: how to dance fashionably (?)
Friends,
Georgia Littleton wrote:
> When there is
> a consensus of taste, suddenly you have a fashion. It shouldn't be
> surprising that there are fashions in Buenos Aires. ...snip...
> ...although I'm not a slave to fashion.
I sent this opinion privately to Astrid and will share it openly here.
Barbara, Georgia and Astrid seem to agree that an essence exists that
transcends fashion in tango. I couldn't agree more.
In many aspects of life, 'money' is never out of fashion.
In tango, 'musicality' is never out of fashion! ...and it's free! ;-)
All the best,
Frank - Mpls.
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D. University of Minnesota
frankw@mail.ahc.umn.edu Dept. of Neuroscience
(612) 625-6441 (office) 321 Church Street SE
(612) 624-4436 (lab) Minneapolis, MN 55455
(612) 281-3860 (cellular/home)
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 21:30:50 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Music, was: how to dance fashionably (?)
Manuel wrote:
>>As sick as I get of inconsiderate "show-off" dancers, I reserve my
disdain
>>or is it pity?) for the DJs that "kill" milongas for me. I can navigate
>>around bad dancers and avoid their "payasadas", but it's impossible for
me
>>to either listen to or worse yet dance to bad tango (or non-tango) music.
Andy added:
>There are allways the beginners who ask for "something new",
>"not allways this old stuff", "don't you have something by Piazzola?"
>and so on. One could think experienced dancers get bored by "the same
>old stuff" one day, but the oposite is true. Strange, isn't it?
It might seem relatively easy to see people as dogmatic about the music
that is played at milongas. In fact, the DJs at the most successful
milongas in most cities stick mostly to the classics. But knowing and
playing the classics is only 50 percent of the DJs job. The art is in
mixing the classics to build the mood for the evening.
At the right moment--not usually when one is being the DJ--the newer tango
music is also wonderful... One of the difficulties with the newer music is
that the rhythms are not quite as steady because the smaller groups that
play modern tango use rhyrhm changes and rubato playing to create drama,
where the older, typically larger orchestras could use tonal shadings to
build drama. The other problem with the newer music is that it offers a
relatively small sound pallette to the DJ. Nonetheless, if you look at my
list of tandas <https://www.tejastango.com/tandas.html> of which about 98
percent of the music is classic, you will see that when I DJ I show up at
milongas ready to play some El Arranque, Sexteto Sur, Orquesta Color Tango
and some other relatively contemporary music. I must say, I find it
extremely rare when I find it appropriate to play this music for social
dancing...
Despite the comments that Manuel and Andy offer to the contrary, I find
those most interested in the newer music are younger Argentines who have
been dancing for some time.
With best regards,
Steve
Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 00:39:58 -0400
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Music, was: how to dance fashionably (?)
----- Original Message -----
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 09:42:01 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Music, was: how to dance fashionably (?)
Manuel wrote:
>The mixing (or rather the timing) for each tanda is of course very
>important, but no matter how you try to mix the less danceable of Di
>Sarli's compositions with most of Francini-Pointier or Sexteto Tango
>it is not going to be satisfying to most dancers who enjoy good tango
>music.
I have been to milongas where the DJ played nothing but the classics, but
the tandas were poorly composed and played in an order that always
dissipated the energy... I found it quite frustrating. The DJ never
created a groove.
>>At the right moment--not usually when one is being the DJ--the newer
tango
>>music is also wonderful...
>Sure, at the right time, usually towards the end of the milonga one can
get
>away with stuff like that. Particularly if the few dancers left are the
type
>to enjoy some experimentation with the music and have dance skills to meet
>the challenge.
Okay. Now we agree that there can be a time for this type of music. I
must recognize, however, that on a particular occasion when I was at a
milonga where the DJ had done a masterful job of playing the classics all
evening, he gradually worked toward a tanda of relatively modern tango
music, which he played very late at the milonga. I enjoyed it immensely.
The woman I was dancing with (who prefers milonguero-style tango) did not.
She said that she hates it when the DJ plays this kind of music. I respect
her sentiment and take it into account when I DJ.
Playing the modern music only appeals to a minority of dancers. They are
unlikely to be beginners, however. They are more likely to be those who
have the skills to experiment with the rhythm changes of modern music. On
those rare occasions toward the end of a milonga when only a few dancers
are left and they have the skills and would be energized by experimenting,
I might play something a little less classic...
Here is a list of the relatively contemporary tandas that I carry in
addition to 90 tandas of classics.
Litto Nebia Quinteto
(This tanda of lyrical music can be used during the resolution or
denouement of the evening's dancing. It can also be used to refresh the
dancers as the drama is building toward the height of the evening.
Although the music has a simple, clear beat, it does not seem to inspire
dancers when it is played early in the evening.)
Maladandra
Tango Canyengue
Cabaret
Nostalgias
all from Tangos Argentinos de Enrique Cadicamo (Iris 980)
Mixed Tanda -- Verano Porteno
(Dancers seem to enjoy this tanda of dramatic and lyrical tangos which can
be used to help build toward the climax of the evening, but do not be
surprised if some dancers engage in theatrics.)
Franicini/Pontier -- A Media Luz (from Tango I JVC)
Sexteto Sur -- Tanguera (from Libertango Victor Japan)
Carlos Garcia and Tango All Stars -- Adios Nonino (from Tango II JVC)
Raul Garello -- Verano Porteño (from Compilation, Buenos Aires by
Night EMI)
New York Tango Trio
(This is a tanda of dramatic music that stirs fond memories for those who
have seen the New York Tango Trio live.)
El Entrerriano
Yuyito
9 de Julio
all from Cabarute (Lyrichord 7428)
Mixed Tanda -- Oblivion
(The tanda is only useful during the denouement of the evening's dancing,
when the dancers are contemplating oblivion themselves. Use at any other
time could send the DJ to oblivion in short order.)
Trio Pantango -- Silbando (from Tango Argentino ARC EUCD 1257)
Hugo Diaz -- Milonga Triste (from The Tango Lesson Sony movie
soundtrack)
Daniel Barenboim -- Mi Buenos Aires Querido (from Tangos Among
Friends)
Gidon Kremer -- Oblivion (from Hommage a Piazzolla
El Arranque
(The second track is from the Raul Juarena arranged CD Tango Bar. The
other three are by Orquesta El Arranque.)
El Arranque (from Tango Vaiven)
Nostalgico (from Tango Bar Chesky)
Zorro Gris (from Tango Vaiven)
El Abrojito (from Tango Vaiven)
Orquesta Color Tango
Emancipacion (Con Estilo de Bailar Vol. 2 Techno Disc)
Recuerdo (Con Estilo de Bailar Vol. 2 Techno Disc)
Festejando (Con Estilo de Bailar Techno Disc)
A Evaristo Carriego (Con Estilo de Bailar Vol. 2 Techno Disc)
Gotan Project
Queremos Paz
Chunga's Revenge
Vuelvo al Sur
Mixed Tanda -- Valses
Orquesta Color Tango -- Ilusion de Mi Vida (from Con Estilo Para
Bailar Techno Disc)
Hector Varela -- Palomita Blanca (from Buenos Aires de Noche EMI)
Lalo Schifrin Orquesta -- Corazon de Oro (from Tango, movie
soundtrack)
Osvaldo Pugliese -- Desde el Alma (from Ausencia EMI)
In case you are wondering what some people would consider the classics or
what my tandas of classics are, you can see a list of classic tangos online
<https://www.tejastango.com/classic_tangos.html> as well as my personal list
of tandas <https://www.tejastango.com/tandas.html>.
With many happy tangos to all,
Steve
Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/
=
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 01:00:51 -0700
From: Elemer Dubrovay <dubrovay@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: how to dance fashionably (?)
On Sun, 2 Jun 2002 11:04:17 -0700 Barbara Garvey
<barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM> writes:
,> Having listened to and danced tango even longer than Larry I have
> never
> tired of the great old standards and find that the milongas that
> play the
> same music played in Buenos Aire are the most enjoyable.
I agree with you, in this city we have five milongas and one practica a
week in different places,in all but one the DJs play the Buenos Aires
type of dancing music and everybody is happy.
In the other one a lot of the music played is nice for listening but not
for dancing and is not a very popular one, is a shame because is a nice
place.
Some dancers think that dancing tango is doing the movements, steps and
the music is something nice to have as a background, they don't even know
de difference between Pugliese and D' Arienzo or some tango orchestra
from Europe.
For some others there is a big difference, you can see them dancing with
intense feeling and concentration and each step they do is connected to
the music in a beautiful way.
Elemer from Seattle.
