1063 Ideals, people & problems
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:12:36 -0600
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Ideals, people & problems
Lisandro and friends,
Lisandro wrote:
>>And stop idealizing a dance. If tango is life to you, as some of you say,
then deal with it. Don't like something someone wrote, you have the right
(and the responsibility) to offer a counter proposal.<<
Here's my respectful counter proposal. If tango is an art, then it exists
for each of us in an ideal form. Perhaps that ideal form is imbued with
failings or disappointments - that doesn't matter. It is important to not
deny that our personal ideals for tango may contain flaws. However, the
artists who lead the world of tango (whomever you think they are) clearly
have a vision based on an ideal. ...so why shouldn't we?
It's true, Lisandro, that some followers of tango choose not to dwell on the
negative side. Me, for example. Some of the better dancers I've met are
also some of the sketchiest people I've met, but I don't care. I don't need
to adopt their problems. I try to not dwell on the negative. I accept that
people are simultaneously good and bad - accepting the bad (without
comment?) allows us to also find the good. It is often a simple matter of
not letting somebody else's anger infect you yourself. That's a skill in
life that is worthwhile, and it takes some practice. It is easier in art
than in love or in business because art exists purely for individual
affirmation and satisfaction - we alone are in control and decide our likes,
our dislikes, and how much to compromise. Expressing personal anger through
tango? .possible, but for me, no. There are much more effective venues
than a dance floor to work out anger!
>> I find that people on this list often avoid discussing blatant social
issues related to tango, and I find this silence to be more disgusting and
difficult to support than peoples' open aggression.<<
Che! *You're* on the list. What 'social issues concerning an art form' be
on your mind?
Somehow, each of us idealizes tango. How and why would we otherwise pursue
it?
Frank in Minneapolis
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D.
University of Minnesota
612-625-6441
Department of Neuroscience
6-145 Jackson Hall
321 Church Street SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Department of Veterinary Pathobiology
205 Veterinary Science
1971 Commonwealth Ave.
St. Paul, MN 55108
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:16:20 -0500
From: Lisandro Gomez <lisandro.gomez@SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: Re: Ideals, people & problems
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. I didn't write that people
should express anger on the dance floor, but I do oppose the idea that tango
is full of really nice people only, who are all open minded and without
prejudice. That is why I oppose censorship, because with censoring, all
people talk about on the list,is how nice everything is and what shoes to
wear( but hey, thats a great distraction when the planet is on the verge of
war ). This is not a problem,except that in that way, social issues such as
sexism , racism , classism, all of which influence tango and the way it is
danced are never discussed. Just an example-quite a while ago , I wrote a
note about african roots in tango. I also asked why, so many people are
quick to deny african contribution (i.e. I challenged the racism). Not one
person responded. That is how people on the list censor ideas. We don't need
real censors. Still confused about issues? I have male students who ardently
believe that it is their God given right to control women, because, after
all, "isn't that what tango is about?"(they tell me). Examples are endless.
Lisandro y amigos
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:12 PM
Subject: [TANGO-L] Ideals, people & problems
Lisandro and friends,
Lisandro wrote:
>>And stop idealizing a dance. If tango is life to you, as some of you say,
then deal with it. Don't like something someone wrote, you have the right
(and the responsibility) to offer a counter proposal.<<
Here's my respectful counter proposal. If tango is an art, then it exists
for each of us in an ideal form. Perhaps that ideal form is imbued with
failings or disappointments - that doesn't matter. It is important to not
deny that our personal ideals for tango may contain flaws. However, the
artists who lead the world of tango (whomever you think they are) clearly
have a vision based on an ideal. ...so why shouldn't we?
It's true, Lisandro, that some followers of tango choose not to dwell on the
negative side. Me, for example. Some of the better dancers I've met are
also some of the sketchiest people I've met, but I don't care. I don't need
to adopt their problems. I try to not dwell on the negative. I accept that
people are simultaneously good and bad - accepting the bad (without
comment?) allows us to also find the good. It is often a simple matter of
not letting somebody else's anger infect you yourself. That's a skill in
life that is worthwhile, and it takes some practice. It is easier in art
than in love or in business because art exists purely for individual
affirmation and satisfaction - we alone are in control and decide our likes,
our dislikes, and how much to compromise. Expressing personal anger through
tango? .possible, but for me, no. There are much more effective venues
than a dance floor to work out anger!
>> I find that people on this list often avoid discussing blatant social
issues related to tango, and I find this silence to be more disgusting and
difficult to support than peoples' open aggression.<<
Che! *You're* on the list. What 'social issues concerning an art form' be
on your mind?
Somehow, each of us idealizes tango. How and why would we otherwise pursue
it?
Frank in Minneapolis
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D.
University of Minnesota
612-625-6441
Department of Neuroscience
6-145 Jackson Hall
321 Church Street SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Department of Veterinary Pathobiology
205 Veterinary Science
1971 Commonwealth Ave.
St. Paul, MN 55108
Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Ideals, people & problems
> I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean. I didn't write that
people
> should express anger on the dance floor, but I do oppose the idea that
tango
> is full of really nice people only, who are all open minded and without
> prejudice. That is why I oppose censorship, because with censoring, all
> people talk about on the list,is how nice everything is and what shoes to
> wear( but hey, thats a great distraction when the planet is on the verge
of
> war ). This is not a problem,except that in that way, social issues such
as
> sexism , racism , classism, all of which influence tango and the way it is
> danced are never discussed. Just an example-quite a while ago , I wrote a
> note about african roots in tango. I also asked why, so many people are
> quick to deny african contribution (i.e. I challenged the racism). Not one
> person responded. That is how people on the list censor ideas. We don't
need
> real censors. Still confused about issues? I have male students who
ardently
> believe that it is their God given right to control women, because, after
> all, "isn't that what tango is about?"(they tell me). Examples are
endless.
>
> Lisandro y amigos
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
> To: <TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:12 PM
> Subject: [TANGO-L] Ideals, people & problems
>
>
> Lisandro and friends,
>
>
>
> Lisandro wrote:
>
>
>
> >>And stop idealizing a dance. If tango is life to you, as some of you
say,
> then deal with it. Don't like something someone wrote, you have the right
> (and the responsibility) to offer a counter proposal.<<
>
>
>
> Here's my respectful counter proposal. If tango is an art, then it exists
> for each of us in an ideal form. Perhaps that ideal form is imbued with
> failings or disappointments - that doesn't matter. It is important to not
> deny that our personal ideals for tango may contain flaws. However, the
> artists who lead the world of tango (whomever you think they are) clearly
> have a vision based on an ideal. ...so why shouldn't we?
>
>
>
> It's true, Lisandro, that some followers of tango choose not to dwell on
the
> negative side. Me, for example. Some of the better dancers I've met are
> also some of the sketchiest people I've met, but I don't care. I don't
need
> to adopt their problems. I try to not dwell on the negative. I accept
that
> people are simultaneously good and bad - accepting the bad (without
> comment?) allows us to also find the good. It is often a simple matter of
> not letting somebody else's anger infect you yourself. That's a skill in
> life that is worthwhile, and it takes some practice. It is easier in art
> than in love or in business because art exists purely for individual
> affirmation and satisfaction - we alone are in control and decide our
likes,
> our dislikes, and how much to compromise. Expressing personal anger
through
> tango? .possible, but for me, no. There are much more effective venues
> than a dance floor to work out anger!
>
>
>
> >> I find that people on this list often avoid discussing blatant social
> issues related to tango, and I find this silence to be more disgusting and
> difficult to support than peoples' open aggression.<<
>
>
>
> Che! *You're* on the list. What 'social issues concerning an art form'
be
> on your mind?
>
>
>
>
>
> Somehow, each of us idealizes tango. How and why would we otherwise
pursue
> it?
>
>
>
>
>
> Frank in Minneapolis
>
>
>
>
>
> Frank G. Williams, Ph.D.
>
> University of Minnesota
>
> 612-625-6441
>
>
>
> Department of Neuroscience
>
> 6-145 Jackson Hall
>
> 321 Church Street SE
>
> Minneapolis, MN 55455
>
>
>
> Department of Veterinary Pathobiology
>
> 205 Veterinary Science
>
> 1971 Commonwealth Ave.
>
> St. Paul, MN 55108
>
>
>
>
>
