208  Live

Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2001 22:32:52 -0700
From: "Larry E. Carroll" <larrydla@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Live

I thought of staying home from work today.

I thought of not going dancing in the upcoming milongas.

But if I did that they would have beaten me. So I went to work,
and did my best.

And I'm going to dress my best, no mourning clothes, and dance
this week and weekend. And I will have a good time. I will not
be beaten.

Meet me there.

Larry de Los Angeles
https://home.att.net/~larrydla

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 13:22:30 -0600
From: Bibib Wong <bibibwong@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Live band or not

To the list members,

From the discussion of live bands vs. recorded music, this new comer has
another question which is a spin-off from my earlier question on dancing to
the music.

In a nutshell: as all live bands have their freedom to interpret music their
own ways, and as a lot of tango music has the uniqueness of combining
different tempo and feeling within the same piece, is it more difficult to
dance to live bands?

Here we are on the floor, the lead is interpreting the music-- thus setting
the tone of the dance (assuming he knows the tune), his mood, and he is
ready to interact with his partner's dance ability, his partner's mood, his
partner's musicality and alas, while responding to the floor traffic. All
impromptu. There are even talks about arriving zen elation from dancing
tango....

But what if the band interprets the music differently, so that at any
anticipated moment, be it a melody, a beat or the transitional bridge, when
both dancers are about to enjoy each other, the band switches their
interpreation on the tempo; would the dancers be disappointed? I was.

I love live bands performances in general, but I notice the more "regularly
rhythmic" the tune is played by the band, the easier for the dancers.
However, after a whole night of Pugliese-ized music, would that be a bit
monotonous?

Bibi (Chicago)

>dancers that drive the creation of truly great
>dance orchestras.

>This might be true because we are so used
>to music coming from a box that we forget that there are real people
>playing and we must include the musicians in our enjoyment by letting
>them know, in more ways than just enjoying our dance, that they are a
>significant source of the joy of our evening. If they play at concerts
>they are applauded by hundreds of people who pay handsomely for the
>pleasure of only listening. There is a synergy that can exist between
>dancers and musicians but it is difficult to develop the sense of it if
>we mostly dance to recorded music.
>

Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:55:16 -0900
From: Dan Boccia <redfox@ALASKA.NET>
Subject: Re: Live band or not

Bibi asks:


"{But what if the band interprets the music differently, so that at any
anticipated moment, be it a melody, a beat or the transitional bridge, when
both dancers are about to enjoy each other, the band switches their
interpreation on the tempo; would the dancers be disappointed? I was."}

This brings up the interesting point of "anticipated moment". Is the moment
"anticipated" because the dancers are thinking of a recorded version of the
song the live band is playing, and when the live band does something else,
this unsettles the dancers? To me this is sad.

When live music is playing, we cannot rely on our memory to dance from - we
have to dance in the moment. We cannot expect or anticipate anything. We
have to really sink into the feeling of the music and try to let the music
pull us along, rather than try to anticipate it. It is just this feeling
that I so love about dancing to live music. I just read the note Robert
Hauk wrote about all this, and he mentions the band at the TangoFest
recently. I really appreciate Robert's note and his unwavering, self-less
commitment to building dance communities, but I want to address something
different here.

I, too, crave the magic of the dance bands from the 30's and 40's. That
said, at the TangoFest, I had some of the very best dances of my life to the
live band. I also had many great dances at Denver on Labor Day to the band
that played there. Frankly, I was surprised, at both of these events, by
the lack of enthusiasm for the music that I heard from some people. I loved
the live music and so did my partners. But how many people really listened
to the music, really took the time to get a feeling for what they were
creating? Before I could dance, I stood right near the stage listening
intently and watching each musician play and how they interacted, for at
least 2 or 3 full songs. Only then did I feel I was prepared to dance. I
noticed that a few other dancers did the same and it showed in their dancing
and in the look on their partners' faces. One of them turned out to be
quite new to tango, and he was really swept away by the music and he said he
had some great dances. (This tells me that the beginners DO have a chance
to enjoy this music and that perhaps we might want to consider changing our
teaching around somehow to help them out more.) Once in awhile, we'd go
back to the stage and just sit and soak up the feeling of the music. By the
end of the night it felt as if we were playing music with the band, that our
dancing was an extension of what they were creating. The other dancers who
were paying attention felt the same. We got deeper and more immersed in
their sound. It was incredible and I left the live milonga at the TangoFest
with a very electric feeling running through my body. I really feel that we
need these kinds of opportunities and I hope I'm not the only one who got
high by this music.

Somehow, if the dancing community is going to really appreciate live music,
we must understand that what we do is an extension of the music, and not the
other way around. We have to make a concerted effort to understand the
music we're dancing to and not come into the event with a pre-conceived idea
of what we're going to do. We have to prepare ourselves to have a dialogue
with the musicians. If we truly know how to walk and pause, that is all we
need to dance to live music. However, if we don't really understand how to
take exactly one quality step at a time so that we can react to tempo
changes and such, we will not be able to dance to live music. If we don't
appreciate the fact that a LOT of dancing can take place in between steps,
we're going to continue having difficulty dancing to the slower, lush music.
It won't work. If we don't make an attempt to really connect deeply with
our partners and the music, it won't work. If we consider dancing to be a
cal esthetic exercise only rather than a dialogue with the musicians, we
send the message to the musicians that we don't care what they play. If we
feel strongly about this, we need to provide useful, honest feedback to the
organizers of these events as well. These people generally have a big
interest in improving their events and are very eager to get feedback.

Like I said, I'm with a lot of people who crave the magic of the sound that
the great dance bands of the 30's and 40's made. But we need to grow with
the musicians we have now and make an attempt to meet them in the middle.
We need to get a feel for what is quality music and what is not quality
music, and encourage those who play quality music to keep doing what they're
doing, but with a constant stream of positive feedback and a real attempt on
our part to understand and appreciate their music. We may need to change
our instructing around a little bit to help this all out. Think about it.
We need to be sure we're thinking with an open mind. We need to all work
together to make the magic happen.

Many great dances to everyone -

Dan

Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:01:57 -0500
From: Patricia Thompson <alaskatango@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject: A Dance to Live

Friends~

In my musings about Argentine Tango today, this thought formed in my mind:

Some of us 'Live to Dance'.

Argentine Tango is a 'Dance you Live'!

Wishing you all many wonderful tangos~

Patricia of Anchorage
--

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:53:10 -0700
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Tango a safe place to live dangerously - Real Men III

I received many private mails in reference to our discussion on two
subjects, "Real Men" and "Is Tango Evolving".
I was surprised to see that they prefer a private discussion rather the
public forum.
Most correspondents express the idea that they lost interest in our Tango
List long ago due to the platitude and narrow-mindness of the usual
correspondents.

It seems that many of them prefer their "small circle" of friends
discussions. They work on their own web pages, newsletters and tango
publications. I have felt the same way for a long time but with certain
regret.
Despite this it is obvious that most of us still read this list as
frequently as we can and are somewhat disillusioned when we do not find
anything of interest.

Returning to my note on "Real Men" and the subsequent discussions (which
will appear in the winter edition of the specialized tango magazine from
London called "El Once"), I had written it in reference to tango and nothing
other than tango. Many of the correspondents on the other hand thought of it
as a metaphor for real life. From that perspective life gives birth to tango
and tango gives birth to life.

I would like to share with you one such note sent by Brian Rosino from
Modern Muse (Denver Colorado).

"Tango: A Safe Place To Live Dangerously
Roger Ebert reviewed Carlos Saura's film Tango, and said, "The tango is
based on suspicion, sex and insincerity. It is not a dance for virgins. It
is
for the wounded and the wary." To say that Tango is a passionate dance is an
understatement. It may be that Roger has a fear of deep feelings, whether
those feelings include insincerity or suspicion is a matter of your
perspective. Sex, as in all life, is a major aspect. It is no surprise to me
that Tango has become so popular around the world and especially the United
States. Like any art it is a reflection of a cultural "what's next"-what's
emerging from the collective unconscious? So what draws us to tango? Do we
really know? Bueno Aires teacher Graciela Gonzalez says, "Tango attracts
divorced or single people in their thirties, because of the element of
physical contact and romance." She says, "Tango has very clear roles. It is
neither sexist, nor feminist. I believe it brings us back to the sources."
(Our core sexual essence, male or female). Now I think she's on to
something.
Men have to be masculine and women feminine-"without fighting." That's
safe. Passion and romance-obvious polarity (sparks) between the sexes-in a
controlled social environment. The man leads, the woman follows. The man
takes care of the woman and makes her look good and feel good. He navigates,
like a ship on the vast feminine ocean. The woman gives up her masculine
control. She responds, reacts to the subtleties of the man's lead. His
masculine qualities of confidence, poise and direction inspires her feminine
qualities. There you have it-polarization, passion, sex. What if Tango is a
metaphor for life? What if tango says that our society of whining, wimpy men
should be finished exploring their feminine side and stop being afraid of
the
responsibility of taking care of a woman the way women deserve to be taken
care of? To take such good care of her with unwavering intention and
integrity that she is inspired to trust enough to let go of her own
masculine
protection and independence. In the dance, the woman must trust the man's
masculine direction more than her own. It's not that difficult. What about
everyday life? Holy shit, what a challenge for the man-scary proposition for
the woman. If we want to restore passion to our relationships, it's the
direction we should be headed. . Or should we settle for Tango two or
three times a week? Until we move
to the next stage of evolution in our relationships between men and women,
tango will be based on suspicion, and insincerity. It will be for the
wounded and the wary, for the little boys and their mommies. A friend of
mine
says Tango suffers from "Weenie Dude" syndrome. In a majority of cases, the
men who are the best on the dance floor are the last to step up to the plate
in everyday life to take care of a woman. That's too dangerous. The guys
that
make an effort to lead in life take longer to learn the dance....they have
less time. One thing is for sure, the dance will always be based on sex.
Copyright, Brian Rosino from Modern Muse

Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:39:07 -0400
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango a safe place to live dangerously - Real Men III

>Tango suffers from "Weenie Dude" syndrome. In a majority of cases, the
> men who are the best on the dance floor are the last to step up to the

plate

> in everyday life to take care of a woman.

I guess I would have to say that for me tango has nothing to do with "taking
care" of people. Personally, I think it would be presumptuous of me to
assume the "care taker" or "paternal" role with anyone other than my own
children (and only until they grow up). Actually, the quote from Roger Ebert
"The tango is based on suspicion, sex and insincerity. It is not a dance for
virgins. It is
for the wounded and the wary." is quite on the mark. Of course, it is also
much more. One need to be wounded or wary to love and enjoy the tango, but
many tangueros and tangueras do fit that description.

I don't think that it is my place to assume some sort of "care taking",
heroic role just because I want to dance tango. I've danced with lots of
different women and I cannot think they ever wanted me to become their
protector or care taker. The only obligation I have is to treat my dance
partners with due care and respect. The only caretaking I must do is to make
sure they are not in danger of collisions or physical damage. I think the
vast majority of women I've met are much more comfortable in the knowledge
and confidence that they are quite capable of taking care of themselves and
need no man to handle their lives.

Manuel