761  Milongas with melody

Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 19:15:36 -0800
From: Dan Boccia <redfox@ALASKA.NET>
Subject: Milongas with melody

A few months ago (I cannot remember exactly where or when), a milonga by
Carlos Di Sarli came on. Perhaps it was Zorzal, one of my favorites with
Roberto Rufino singing. I jumped clear out of my chair, applauded the DJ,
embraced my partner, and went off on a fantastic tanda of milongas. Two of
the milongas had pronounced melodic sections, during which the typical
driving rhythm of the milonga faded out in favor of a brief swirling melody
of violins and piano (trademark Di Sarli !). To me, these kinds of milongas
are the richest, most delicious of all, even though I love the more
consitently rhythmic milongas too. However, I recall a couple of male
friends, both very accomplished dancers, sigh in disgust that the milonga
“lacked the feeling of milonga” or was “hard to dance milonga to”.

I have asked around a bit since, and most leaders agree that when the
milonga beat fades off, they find it difficult to dance to. Most of the
people I’ve talked with dance “milonga” quite well, in that they are keen
improvisers and have considerable vocabularies of “milonga” steps, and I
have always aspired to be able to dance milonga as well as they do. On the
other hand, the women I talked to love these kinds of melodies, regardless
of the type of music. Hmmmmmmm..........

I often ask how these men dance to the pauses or melodies of, say, Calo, Di
Sarli, or Pugliese tangos. They respond that pauses and melodies are part
of tango, but should not be part of milonga. These dancers are also quite
artistic and tasteful in their interpretation of melodic sections and pauses
of tangos. Thus, they clearly have the capability to dance well to melodic
sections (of any song).

So now my big question: When a song comes on, do we strictly dance tango,
milonga, or vals, or do we simply dance to the music, whatever it has to
offer??? Are we REALLY improvisational and musical dancers, or are we
programmed more than we realize?? Of course, we all have our musical
preferences, which is perfectly normal and reasonable, but for a large
portion of the tango community to dismiss some really sensational milongas
because these songs don’t hammer the rhythm consistently seems a bit
troublesome to me.

Give the milongas by Di Sarli a good, hard look. A few of them may really
grow on you. While you’re at it, take a look at D’Agostino’s milongas as
well. They’re fun to dance to in a nice, relaxing way. Maestro Di Sarli’s
piano playing and infectious rhythms swing with particular brilliance in his
milongas from the early to mid 40's. No, I don’t advocate that DJs play an
entire set of milongas featuring melodic segments, but they’re a nice
contrast to the standard consistently rhythmic fare.

Con Alma y Vida (pun fully intended!) -

Dan

Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:59:20 -0500
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Milongas with melody

Heyo Dan, Hi All:

Dan Boccia wrote:

> So now my big question: When a song comes on, do we strictly dance tango,
> milonga, or vals, or do we simply dance to the music, whatever it has to
> offer???

Everything below IMHO... Discount at will...

I don't like to 'mix' tango and milonga. I like the milonga to swing a bit
so that I can play with the basic rhythm in addition to adding
syncopation.
Only rarely do I feel any swing or lazy swagger in tango. [If it's there,
though, I enjoy dancing it] I particularly dislike whirling dervish
ochos
and walking to the cross in milonga. As for 'tricks' and surprises, I
only
like those based on syncopation - eg. traspie. I'd be hard-pressed to
say what tango-milonga crossover is 'authentic' and what is not. I think
we'd all agree, though, that the best dancers move very differently between
the two musical forms.

> Are we REALLY improvisational and musical dancers?

Let's distinguish between the feelings of tango and those of milonga. They
ARE different. Milonga is lighter, happier, and more energetic. Even
if we
dance tango steps, they should come out feeling different. But I prefer
to simplify the milonga down to really simple stuff and then explore the
rhythm in a dry, relaxed way. If I'm trying to lead things that might
be
lovely in tango, but to a milonga rhythm, forget about the relaxation
part!
In fact, I think that the relaxation (rather than tension) needed to
execute
'surprise' rhythmic aspects of milonga make it wonderful as training for
a great tango frame.

Lyrical milonga music? What do I 'bounce off of' for surprise? With
the
energy that low, the dance looses the easy milonga feeling for me and
asks
more for tango energy and steps which I prefer to explore in a well
developed
tango song. It's nice to get back into the rhythm as the milonga
progresses,
but Biagi and others had no trouble developing and resolving a milonga
theme
without forgetting about the rhythm.

> or are we programmed more than we realize??

I guess I'm guilty - but IMHO it's up to the DJ and the band leader to
set the feeling, and the great thing about milonga tandas is how they
boost the energy of the room as a contrast to the heavier tangos. They're
supposed to be different, yet they compliment tango by not messing up
the energy in the frame. ...as long as more intricate tango 'moves'
are kept in the background.

Take care,

Frank - Mpls.

Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:15:06 -0500
From: Bibi Wong <bibibwong@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Milongas with melody

Dan asked

>They respond that pauses and melodies are part
>of tango, but should not be part of milonga. ... now my big question: When
>a song comes on, do we strictly dance tango, milonga, or vals, or do we
>simply dance to the music, whatever it has to
>offer???

Not sure his question, I would like the lead to dance to music, I would like
to decorate to it too.

BB (Bs As)

Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:15:43 +0200
From: "Kohlhaas, Bernhard" <bernhard.kohlhaas@SAP.COM>
Subject: Re: Milongas with melody

> From: Dan Boccia [mailto:redfox@alaska.net]
>
> A few months ago (I cannot remember exactly where or when), a milonga by
> Carlos Di Sarli came on. [...] Two of
> the milongas had pronounced melodic sections, during which the typical
> driving rhythm of the milonga faded out in favor of a brief swirling melody
> of violins and piano (trademark Di Sarli !). To me, these kinds of milongas
> are the richest, most delicious of all, even though I love the more
> consitently rhythmic milongas too. However, I recall a couple of male
> friends, both very accomplished dancers, sigh in disgust that the milonga
> "lacked the feeling of milonga" or was "hard to dance milonga to".

Dan,

first of all thanks for some interesting thoughts about milongas. After reading
your article I listend to a tanda of Di Sarli milongas I have and noticed the
change between rhythmic and melodic parts especially on "Yo Soy De San Telmo".

While I don't find Di Sarli milongas difficult to dance to at all, I have more problems
with other milongas that have these shifts in style, e.g. Miguel Caló's "Milonga Antigua" or
"Cimmaron De Ausencia". I don't know why Di Sarli milongas are easier for me to dance to,
I believe it has something to do how dominant the singer is and how much rubato (sp?)
he uses.

> I often ask how these men dance to the pauses or melodies of, say, Calo, Di
> Sarli, or Pugliese tangos. They respond that pauses and melodies are part
> of tango, but should not be part of milonga.

It certainly takes some getting used to. Here in the SF Bay Area I see the more advanced
dancers (to which I do not count myself) to use pauses during milongas, though most
dancers dance continously.
Rhythmic milongas seem to evoke a certain kind of energy and mood that is very
different from the smooth melodic parts. It takes a lot of skill to adjust oneself between
very rhythmical and very melodical part several times during a piece of music.

> Are we REALLY improvisational and musical dancers, or are we
> programmed more than we realize??

We ARE programmed more than we realize. Part of advancing is to get rid of some programming.

> Give the milongas by Di Sarli a good, hard look. A few of them may really
> grow on you.

You've already won me over on those :)

> Of course, we all have our musical preferences, which is perfectly normal and reasonable,
> but for a large portion of the tango community to dismiss some really sensational milongas
> because these songs don't hammer the rhythm consistently seems a bit
> troublesome to me.

Perhaps one of the difficulties of milonga is that people associate dancing milonga
with being on a "race track". There are some milongas are performed very fast and have
that hammering "heavy" rhythm on many recordings.
"La Puñalada", "El Porteñito" or "Taquito Militar" are some examples that are frequently
played in milongas and lots of times in versions whose main quality seems to be speed.

These days I find that I enjoy milongas at a slow to moderate speed much more, because the slow
speed allows a certain lightness and playfulness in the rhythm and in my dancing. And it is
much easier to incorporate elements such as stops in my dancing.

Bernhard

Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 16:55:52 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Milongas with melody

Dan Boccia wrote:

>A few months ago (I cannot remember exactly where or when), a milonga
>by Carlos Di Sarli came on. Perhaps it was Zorzal, one of my
>favorites with Roberto Rufino singing. ...
>Two of the milongas had pronounced melodic sections, during which
>the typical driving rhythm of the milonga faded out in favor of a
>brief swirling melody of violins and piano (trademark Di Sarli !).
>... [T]hese kinds of milongas are the richest, most delicious of
>all ... I recall a couple of male friends, both very accomplished
>dancers, sigh in disgust that the milonga "lacked the feeling of
>milonga" or was "hard to dance milonga to".

I put together a tanda of DiSarli milongas, which I really like: Rosa
Morena, Zorzal, La Mulateada, Pena Mulata. I would describe these milongas
as playful, lyrical, relatively light and delightfully danceable. They are
among my favorites, and I take them along with my collection of preset
tandas to every milonga where I DJ. With so many other great milongas that
are crowd pleasers, however, I find myself rarely playing these Di Sarli
milongas.

When I think about playing them, several reservations immediately come to
mind? How will the beginners fare with less rhythmic milongas? How will
those who dance complex styles milonga fare? (I dance a relatively simple
and rhythmic style of milonga, and am less thrown by the more lyrical
milongas.) Am I reaching for the obscure music that the DJ loves but
dancers find less interesting?

We also need to deal with some programmatic issues to play a tanda of Di
Sarli milongas successfully. It is difficult to throw the tanda of Di
Sarli milongas in the same place where we might place a tanda of more
heavily rhythmic milongas.

A typical progression might be to play to tandas of tango in building
toward a tanda of milonga. One could start with a tanda of lighter
rhythmic tangos (such as Calo with Podesta or Tanturi with Castillo),
proceed to a tanda of more heavily rhythmic tangos (such as D'Arienzo,
Biagi, Rodriguez or early Troilo) and then go onto a tanda of milongas.
After the two tandas of tango I have suggested, the more heavily rhythmic
milongas such as (Canaro, D'Arienzo, Laurenz, Tanturi/Castillo) help build
intensity. The more sophisticated, lyrical Di Sarli milongas don't
contribute that kind of intensity.

We may need to think a little more to get the Di Sarli milongas into the
program. Here are my thoughts about how to construct a program that works
with the Di Sarli milongas:

To lead successfully into the Di Sarli milongas, I might be looking at a
progression from a tanda of light, lyrical tangos (such as Fresedo/Ray), a
tanda of sublime rhythmic tangos such as (D'Agostino/Vargas or some
Calo/Beron) and then the tanda of Di Sarli milongas... After these two
tandas of tango, the milongas do not need to contribute as much rhythmic
intensity as they would after the more heavily rhythmic tangos. The Di
Sarli milongas succeed by contributing to the romantic intensity--if I have
managed to take everyone on this journey...

But at this point, most people might be expecting vals because it seems to
contribute to the romantic continuity... To avoid that expectation, let's
a play a tanda of rhythmic vals (such as D'Arienzo) ahead of the light
lyrical tanda of tangos... We can set up the tanda of rhythmic vals by
playing a tanda of lighter rhythmic tangos followed by a tanda of heavier
lyrical tangos (such as Di Sarli/Rufino, DiSarli/Duran, Troilo/Fiorentino,
DeMare, Tanturi/Campos, Puglise with singers).

The resulting program is:

lighter rhythmic tangos
heavier lyrical tangos
rhythmic vals
light, lyrical tangos
sublime rhythmic tangos
Di Sarli milongas

The result is a few tandas are just a bit lighter than might typically be
played in a progression of two tandas of tango, one of vals, two of tango
and one of milonga. We also end up using mostly vocal music. The rhythmic
vals are the only likely exceptions. We are playing music for the more
advanced dancers. Nonetheless, the program seems quite satisfying for
building a romantic mood..., and we can come right back to build intensity.

With best regards,
Steve

Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/

Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 23:42:08 +0200
From: "Kohlhaas, Bernhard" <bernhard.kohlhaas@SAP.COM>
Subject: Re: Milongas with melody

> From: Dan Boccia [mailto:redfox@alaska.net]
> Subject: [TANGO-L] Milongas with melody

> A few months ago (I cannot remember exactly where or when), a milonga by
> Carlos Di Sarli came on. Perhaps it was Zorzal, one of my favorites with
> Roberto Rufino singing. I jumped clear out of my chair, applauded the DJ,
> embraced my partner, and went off on a fantastic tanda of milongas. Two of
> the milongas had pronounced melodic sections, during which the typical
> driving rhythm of the milonga faded out in favor of a brief swirling melody
> of violins and piano (trademark Di Sarli !). To me, these kinds of milongas
> are the richest, most delicious of all, even though I love the more
> consitently rhythmic milongas too.

Another followup to Dan's exellent comments about milongas with melody:
I recently bought a newly release Canaro CD with all milongas "Milongueando con Canaro"
on the EMI Reliquias label and found one piece "Por La Güella" especially intruiging.
It has a beautiful, melancholic melody with a candombe-like rhythm, which sometimes
gets replaced by a steady beat during some of the melodic parts.

Has anyone ever danced to this song during a milonga? It doesn't seem to be
the easiest milonga in the world to dance to, but when listening to it, it sounds
like one of the more rewarding ones.

Bernhard