895  And the new World Champions are ...

Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2002 14:06:55 -0800
From: Larry Duke <auto_d20@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: And the new World Champions are ...

... Marco Palladino and Daniela Tabai from Italy!!!

Apparently nobody from the USTC qualifying event made
it to the top six at the World Championships in Miami
last September.

The results are posted at:
https://www.ido-online.org/competitions/results/2002/wchamp/20020906miami01/

I have an idea! How about a World Championship for
DJs?!!!

Just think of the possibilities .....

Cheers,
El Duke.

Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 01:22:27 -0500
From: Nicole Dowell <bailadora2000@EXCITE.COM>
Subject: Re: And the new World Champions are ...

This has been old news since September...why did it take so long for this info to get out to the tango community? Not asking this retorically, really asking.

Is there a support for Tango Competitions? Being a participant in DanceSport Competitions, I see a fairly strong support (slowly growing) in the US among dancers to support dance competitions, but wondered about the tango world.

Does the tango world really support tango competitions, or is tango just seem like a dance that can't be judged? At the qualifying event for the IDO World Championships here in Miami during the USTC, there is very little turnout for the competition. And honestly, no offence to the dancers that compete, but I've seen as good if not better dancers at the milongas than I usually do in the competition.

I'm curious of peoples opinion on the idea of a tango championship.

Nicole
Miami

Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 10:34:26 -0800
From: Mark Lad <markw@KWEB.COM>
Subject: Re: And the new World Champions are ...

Is it just me? Am I the only one that thinks taking an art so beautiful as
Tango and making it a competition is perverse?

I think competition is exactly what killed ballroom dance. They took dances
that real people did socially and distorted them into some kind of weird
stage hoofing. Now if anybody wants to learn to foxtrot they're taught by a
system designed to produce competitors, not dancers.

Competition is fine for ball sports, foot races and chess. It is absolutely
wrong for art and social dance.

Keep competition out of Tango!!!

Mark Lad

Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 22:49:37 -0500
From: Nicole Dowell <bailadora2000@EXCITE.COM>
Subject: Re: And the new World Champions are ...

Mark Lad wrote:

Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 22:35:58 -0800
From: JC Dill <tango@VO.CNCHOST.COM>
Subject: Re: And the new World Champions are ...

At 10:34 AM 12/27/2002 -0800, Mark Lad wrote:

>Is it just me? Am I the only one that thinks taking an art so beautiful as
>Tango and making it a competition is perverse?

Have you ever attended a good dance competition? When it's done right, the
spectator is treated to a wonderful exhibition of the most beautiful of the
artists, all dancing together. It need not be a perversion.

>I think competition is exactly what killed ballroom dance. They took dances
>that real people did socially and distorted them into some kind of weird
>stage hoofing. Now if anybody wants to learn to foxtrot they're taught by a
>system designed to produce competitors, not dancers.
>
>Competition is fine for ball sports, foot races and chess. It is absolutely
>wrong for art and social dance.

OTOH, it has worked amazingly well for West Coast Swing dancing.

IMHO, the big differences between WCS competitions and Ballroom
competitions are the emphasis (in WCS competitions) on matching one's dance
movements to the music (rather than treating the music like a metronome),
and matching with one's partner. So, if we are to have AT competitions, my
hope is that judges and judging rules will emphasize and reward musicality
and partnership (key things that make social partner dancing enjoyable),
rather than overly choreographed flashy moves more suitable for stage.

jc

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 04:23:22 -0500
From: Ba Tango <rhink2@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject: And the new World Champions are ...

Hola Listeros,

I personally prefer not to make my avocation like my job. Tango (and dance
in general) is my avocation; competition makes it more like work. Therefore,
I stay away from competitive dancing.

However, I recognize the value of competition. For those who enjoy
competing, I believe, competition sharpens their skills and promotes their
creativity. Those who strive in these directions are those who keep the
dance alive. If no one tried to create new moves or improve old ones, tango
would suffer attrition and finally die from atrophy. In fact, it almost did
die that way.

The comment about West Coast Swing (WCS) makes exactly this point. To take
it a step further, WCS competitors besides doing the showy, choreographed
routines, came up with a cometition of social dance skills. The event is
sometimes known as a Jack n' Jill contest. In this contest, followers and
leaders are paired randomly; the music usually is unknown to the
competitors. The competition is judged on the partners being together and
being with the music. Since Argentine tango, like WCS, is highly
improvisational, I believe such a competition would work well in tango.

I should mention that a dance competition is only as good as the judging.
The judging scandals in figure skating at the Salt Lake City Olympics show
how bad it can get. But to a lesser degree if the judges are too narrow in
their criteria, the result might be to stifle creativity rather than to
promote it. Given to choice of having that kind of competition or none at
all, I'd take the latter.

Now about art and competition. Didn't Van Cliburn win the first
International Tchaikovsky Competition in 1958? Is music not art? Didn't Maya
Ling Yin submit a design in a competition to honor those who died in
Vietnam? Isn't the Vietnam Wall art?


Bob Hink

Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:54:55 -0800
From: Robert Dodier <robert_dodier@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: And the new World Champions are ...

I don't see much interest in competitions in the local
tango
scene, and I think that's as it should be. Consider
this
question...

Q. How do you know you're a good tango dancer,
anyway?

A1. You get a prize at a competition.

A2. When the song is over, your partner jumps up and
down
and claps their hands.

For my part, I'm pretty sure the right answer is #2.
A dance
competition, of any kind, has to emphasize all the
external
stuff --- that's what the judges can see. But it's
the internal
experience that gets people addicted to tango.

Competitions make sense when there is some limited
resource
and you have pick and choose who gets it --- for
instance,
there are only so many roles in "Oklahoma!" so if you
pass
the audition, you've defeated anyone who didn't get a
part.

Luckily, social dance isn't like that. If twice as
many people
want to dance socially, there can be twice as many
"good"
dancers --- there's no limit. I wouldn't say everyone

can be a winner; it's more like, winning and losing is
just
a distraction.

For what it's worth,
Robert Dodier

Date: Sat, 4 Jan 2003 15:27:18 -0500
From: Randy Pittman <tango22@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: And the new World Champions are ...

Happy New Year Milongueros y Tangueras,

Better late than never

>Apparently nobody from the USTC qualifying event made it to the top six at the >World Championships in Miami last September.

Correction: 3 of the 6 couples that qualified the USTC Tango Fantasy festival, of these 3 couples not one of them made it to the finials at =
the IDO World Championships in Miami last September. For whatever reason that the 1st place Roberto Maiolo and Calrita Infante did not show up, =
the 2nd place Diego Blanco and Ana Patron did not show up, and the IDO Argentine Tango Champions of 2001 Christian Camacho and Monica Llobet =
did not bother to show up. Why I cannot tell you. You'll have to ask them yourself.

There is a definite reason, that this was the first year that I did not personally post the results immediately after the event. Before we get =
to that here are the results of the 2002 IDO World Argentine Tango Champions

World Champions Marco Palladino - Daniela Tabai - Italy

2 Alberyto Scarico - Grazia Sabina Rovelli - Italy

3. Martin Balmaceds - Maria Isabel Pradilla - Venezuela

4. Louis Bar - Laura Cantu - France

5 Petr Horacek - Michasia Simkova - Slovakia

6 Oleg Dimitrov - Asya Dimitorv - Bulgaria

When I left the night of the competition I was completely disappointed with the IDO Tango event. From start to finish and did not take with me =
the results that evening, but before I continue on this point the question of WHY must be addressed. Why is there competition in Argentine =
tango. Some feel that competition in A T is perverse, that this Art form should not to be desecrated thru competition.

NEWSFLASH, veterans of this list remember the competition discussion from 3 or 4 years ago. Juan Carlos Copes, Gavito, the Puglisses all the =
big names of Argentina have competed dancing A T many long years ago. Not only do we compete in Tango, I'm afraid that we compete all =
throughout life. We compete for jobs, friends and the affection of the opposite sex or maybe affections of the same sex. Competition starts as =
we swim up the magic tunnel and fight to be the sperm that impregnates the egg. Life is competition!

With the response that this thread has generated, "which hasn't been much", if you want to know WHY we are involved with the IDO A T =
Championships please continue, If you are not interested just hit your delete key.

The IDO World and European Tango Championships have been going on for over 20 years. In 1999 the IDO migrated to the USA. They joined with the =
United States DanceSport Championships, they were looking to take their event to a new level and this was the place to be as far as dance =
competitions are concerned. The USDSC, in the ballroom world is the #1 dance competition in the USA.

From the onset I told the IDO president, that with the rules and regulations, and how the competition was structured, that a performing =
dance team could train to compete in AT, have a chance to win, yet never be able to dance a social tango at a milonga.

Before 1999, there had never been an Argentine representative at the IDO World tango Championships. I had three goals in mind, 1st to help the =
IDO have a good AT Tango Championship, that would be respected by at least, by those that conform to competition rules and regulations. .2nd =
to select a couple, secretly train a performing dance team to compete and prove, that there needed to be changes in the regulations. Third =
there had to be someone from Argentina to represent the true heart of tango.

Our first year 1999, Christian and Lorena were 3rd, I personally judged them 2nd. They were technically better than the couple that did take =
second place. The couple that took second place, the male mislead his partner and got lost. I know this because I choreographed their routine. =
His partner Ana Llorente took over and sold with passion and sensuality till she got him back on the routine. The other judges bought her acting =
over the technique of the 3rd place couple. Fortunately there was a representative from Argentina, none other than Fernanda Ghi and =
Guillermo Merlo. There was a fight over 2nd place, 1st place was never in doubt. From the first preliminary rounds. Fernanda and Guillermo =
received standing ovations. Most preliminary rounds never see standing ovations. Fernanda and Guillermo received standing ovations all =
throughout the event. On the final evening the vendors taping the event said that, that was the longest standing ovation ever receive by anyone =
at the USDSC in his 10 years he has been filming. They were incredible.

The 2000 IDO AT competition was won by Carlos Gavito and Marcella Duran. In 2001 Christian Camacho and Monica Llobet finally broke thru the ranks =
to win the IDO Argentine Tango Championships for 2001. The IDO championships for 2002 are Marco Palladino - Daniela Tabai from Italy. =
In the 2001 and 2002 there was no Argentine representation, and 2002 half of the USA representatives did not show up. I hope that, that does =
not sound like sour grapes. Personally I wish that I could compete myself, but how would that look. Instead I had to settle for a =
specialty judgeship to assist in judging of the Argentine Tango for the USDSC IDO Argentine Tango Championships. The judges of the IDO are =
quality judges of Ballet Dancesport and many other forms of dance. From the beginning, I've preached, to test the skills of dancing tango, to =
prevent trained professional dance teams that have never danced Argentine tango, to learn a choreographed routine and be able to =
compete. To correct this all 3 dances must be required, Vals, Milonga and Tango.

The reason that I was disappointed in this years event, with only Tango being danced, all of the dancers that made the final round, they did =
dance in time to the music, they did do authentic AT steps, but 2/3rds of the dance was flash, trash and tricks. In 1999 when Fernanda Ghi and =
Guillermo Merlo bowed to continuous standing ovations, they danced beautiful, sensuous, elegant Tango.

The reason that I have waited to post this is, I had to decide if the USTC Tango Fantasy was going to continue to be a part of the IDO Tango =
event. Not only were the rules unacceptable, someone else was proposing new regulations that still were not adequate, but now they were =
listening and were getting ready for the annual meeting in late November to make rules and regulation changes. Using their format, I structure =
something that would make it difficult for a non-tango professional dance team to learn a choreography. With the new rules they will have =
to learn 5 or 6 choreographies. Did I do this on my own, "NO" Miguel Angel Zotto worked with me and the IDO adopted 99% of what was =
submitted. In the preliminaries they only have everyone dancing only Tango. In the final round we had submitted Tango without Fantasia on the =
end, sure they liked the way Fantasia sounded.. Following are the new rules and regulations for the IDO Worlds Argentine Tango Championships.

Argentine Tango (Tango, Milonga, Tango Vals and Tango Fantasia)

1. Music: Organizer's music in all rounds EXCEPT the final round of Tango Fantasia where dancers may use their own choice of music.

2. Length of Exhibition: 2 minutes long, to conform to the end of the musical phrase, in all rounds EXCEPT the Tango Fantasia in the final.

3. Tempo: 30 to 32 bars per minute (120 - 128 beats per minute)

4. Characteristics and Movement: The Argentine Tango is a social dance that falls into a smooth category of dance. It follows the line of =
dance (LOD) going around the dance floor in a counter-clockwise direction. This dance form expresses love and passion, which is evident =
by the closeness of the dancers, the man's control and the woman's seductiveness. The dancers execute the figures mainly from the waist =
down while trying to achieve an interesting interplay between them. This interplay between the partners is dictated by the music, and the =
dancers should be dancing to something in the music. One should be able to see the melody expressed through their movement. The epitome of =
Argentine Tango is to watch a couple dance with good posture, good extension through the legs, their feet almost always caressing the =
floor, and pausing with the music with a sense of rhythm that should be clear to those watching.

5. Typical Movements: Walks, turns, ochos to the front and back, sandwiches, leg-wraps and drags, pauses with the music, molinetes, =
paradas, barridas, boleos, ganchos. Brushing and follow-through technique is essential in all movements. Knees must stay connected when =
executing boleos and ganchos. Certain sacades do allow the legs to swing open without the knees being closed.

6. In Preliminary Rounds: The dancers should avoid using obvious choreography, only improvisation, which is the true heart of the Tango. =
Couples will be qualified to the next round by dancing the Tango only. No lifts, separations or jumps are allowed. Only normal dance hold is =
allowed. In the preliminary rounds, a 1-minute presentation dance will take place before the couples are divided into separate heats. Not more =
than six (6) couples will dance together in each heat.

7. In Quarterfinal Rounds: The dancers should avoid using obvious choreography, only improvisation, which is the true heart of the Tango. =
Couples will be qualified to the semi-final by dancing three (3) different kinds of Tango: The Tango, the Milonga and the Tango Vals. The =
Skating System will be used to determine which couples will be qualified for the semi-final. Only normal dance hold is allowed. Not more than six =
(6) couples will dance together in each heat.

8. In Simi-final Rounds: Couples will be qualified to the final by dancing three (3) different kinds of Tango: the Milonga, the Tango Vals =
and the Tango Fantasia. The Skating System will be used to determine which couples will be qualified for the final. Only normal dance hold is =
allowed in the Milonga and the Tango Vals. Not more than six (6) couples will dance together in each heat.

9. Lifts, separations and jumps: Permitted in Tango Fantasia ONLY, and no acrobatic figures / movements are allowed where the feet or the main =
part of the body is above the partner's shoulders.

In the Finals: Couples will be dancing three (3) different kinds of Tango: The Milonga, the Tango Vals and the Tango Fantasia. All couples =
will dance together in the Milonga and the Tango Vals, and may only use normal dance hold in these two dances. In the final for the Tango =
Fantasia, each couple will perform alone. The Skating System will be used to determine the order of merit over all three (3) dances.

There are still flaws, but the foundation of the event has been significantly improved.

Tango Forever

Randy & Lydia

USTC Tango Fantasy on Miami Beach