2753 Open embrace and "no danceable beat"
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:59:18 -0400
From: A Coleman <gurps_npc@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Open embrace and "no danceable beat"
1)There is no such thing as music that has "no danceable beat". If the
music has a beat, it can be danced to. If the beat is fast, we might have
to dance it "slow style" with two beats per step, but if it has a beat, it
can be danced to. However, it could be harder to dance to a faster beat.
2) But some people that either do not like to dance to fast music, who are
not good enough to dance to the fast beat, or who are simply older and do
not have the energy to dance to fast music will call the music "no danceable
beat".
3) For the people that enjoy dancing to the faster music, an open embrace
will allow your follower to make a few more mistakes and still stay with
you. A close embrace may prevent this, causing the follower to make more
mistakes.
4) If the follower is better than the leader, then no matter how fast the
leader dances, the follower can stay in close embrace and dance to the beat.
5) Mistakes are easier to detect then perfect dancing, espeically when you
do not like the music. I.E. If you think the music is undanceable and 3
couples are dancing to it, the glaring error of the beginning couple will
attract your attention while you may never notice that the other two couples
are on the beat the entire song.
I like to dance both open and close embrace, but when I am dancing Tango to
non-traditional music I almost always have to open up the embrace.
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Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:02:35 -0700
From: Michael <michael@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Re: Open embrace and "no danceable beat"
A Coleman wrote:
> 1)There is no such thing as music that has "no danceable beat". If the
> music has a beat, it can be danced to. If the beat is fast, we might have
> to dance it "slow style" with two beats per step, but if it has a beat, it
> can be danced to. However, it could be harder to dance to a faster beat.
I think a clarification needs to be made here - "danceable beat" may
mean to some folks "a consistent rhythmic pattern with no changes in
meter or tempo." Hence, perhaps "no danceable beat" indicates the converse.
>
> 2) But some people that either do not like to dance to fast music, who are
> not good enough to dance to the fast beat, or who are simply older and do
> not have the energy to dance to fast music will call the music "no
> danceable
> beat".
>
I don't think tempo is the issue - I think the issue is that with
Piazzola tunes and a lot of "modern" or "alternative" tango, unless you
know the tune *cold* and know where all the meter and tempo changes and
rubato sections occur, it's difficult to improvise appropriately to them.
For instance, take Piazzola's Tango Suite for two guitars (as played by
the Assad brothers) - the first movement has Piazzola's typical
"123-123-12" milonga pattern, the second movement is very free flowing,
and the third movement is fast, almost scherzando, with meter and tempo
changes. The only reason I can dance to it is that I know all three
movements intimately. It also lends itself to a more dramatic,
stage-type performance, which I think really isn't appropriate for the
social dance floor. (oops - here come the flames....)
> 3) For the people that enjoy dancing to the faster music, an open embrace
> will allow your follower to make a few more mistakes and still stay with
> you. A close embrace may prevent this, causing the follower to make more
> mistakes.
Hmmm - this has not been my experience. Maybe it's just my aikido
training, but it's much easier to communicate my intentions to the
follower when our centers are practically glued together. Fewer mistakes
occur, rather than more.
>
> 4) If the follower is better than the leader, then no matter how fast the
> leader dances, the follower can stay in close embrace and dance to the
> beat.
>
Brings to mind a particular individual I know who dances to his own
"inner beat", regardless of the tempo of the music. His poor followers
have no choice but to match him while he walks 100 bpm to every single tune.
Just my 0.02 USD worth.
--
Michael
Tango Bellingham
www.tangobellingham.com
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 23:21:43 +0000
From: herve michel <herve_michel1@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Open embrace and "no danceable beat"
Michael,
I think that things tend to be interactive.
Even that individual dancing to his 'inner beat' must translate that through
the engagements of his 'followers' and we both know that followers and
larders take turn sometimes.
It's not only the e'beat' it's also the dance. I think for the dance it's
critical to remain connected at the center regardless of the moves one of
the partners make. Your aikido training must convey to you that fluidity is
extremely important but also in the spirit of Zen you must 'shorten the
distance between you and the opponent/ leader/follower/partner'
It's critical that you let's your boundaries flow into the other.
Herve
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>From: Michael <michael@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM>
>Reply-To: Michael <michael@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM>
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>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Open embrace and "no danceable beat"
>Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:02:35 -0700
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>A Coleman wrote:
>>1)There is no such thing as music that has "no danceable beat". If the
>>music has a beat, it can be danced to. If the beat is fast, we might have
>>to dance it "slow style" with two beats per step, but if it has a beat, it
>>can be danced to. However, it could be harder to dance to a faster beat.
>
>I think a clarification needs to be made here - "danceable beat" may
>mean to some folks "a consistent rhythmic pattern with no changes in
>meter or tempo." Hence, perhaps "no danceable beat" indicates the converse.
>
>>
>>2) But some people that either do not like to dance to fast music, who are
>>not good enough to dance to the fast beat, or who are simply older and do
>>not have the energy to dance to fast music will call the music "no
>>danceable
>>beat".
>>
>
>I don't think tempo is the issue - I think the issue is that with
>Piazzola tunes and a lot of "modern" or "alternative" tango, unless you
>know the tune *cold* and know where all the meter and tempo changes and
>rubato sections occur, it's difficult to improvise appropriately to them.
>
>For instance, take Piazzola's Tango Suite for two guitars (as played by
>the Assad brothers) - the first movement has Piazzola's typical
>"123-123-12" milonga pattern, the second movement is very free flowing,
>and the third movement is fast, almost scherzando, with meter and tempo
>changes. The only reason I can dance to it is that I know all three
>movements intimately. It also lends itself to a more dramatic,
>stage-type performance, which I think really isn't appropriate for the
>social dance floor. (oops - here come the flames....)
>
>>3) For the people that enjoy dancing to the faster music, an open embrace
>>will allow your follower to make a few more mistakes and still stay with
>>you. A close embrace may prevent this, causing the follower to make more
>>mistakes.
>
>Hmmm - this has not been my experience. Maybe it's just my aikido
>training, but it's much easier to communicate my intentions to the
>follower when our centers are practically glued together. Fewer mistakes
>occur, rather than more.
>
>>
>>4) If the follower is better than the leader, then no matter how fast the
>>leader dances, the follower can stay in close embrace and dance to the
>>beat.
>>
>Brings to mind a particular individual I know who dances to his own
>"inner beat", regardless of the tempo of the music. His poor followers
>have no choice but to match him while he walks 100 bpm to every single
>tune.
>
>Just my 0.02 USD worth.
>
>--
>Michael
>Tango Bellingham
>www.tangobellingham.com
>
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:29:55 -0700
From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Open embrace and "no danceable beat"
--- A Coleman <gurps_npc@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 3) For the people that enjoy dancing to the faster
> music, an open embrace
> will allow your follower to make a few more mistakes
> and still stay with
> you. A close embrace may prevent this, causing the
> follower to make more
> mistakes.
You mean that an open embrace allows the leader to
make more mistakes in leading the follower, don't you?
:)
When dancing to faster music, e.g. milonga, I find it
easier to give clearer leads dancing close, and it's
easier for me to adjust to her dance level.
=====
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