2698  open, salon, or milonguero?

Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:01:43 -0500
From: Michael Figart II <michaelfigart@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: open, salon, or milonguero?

Hey Sergio,



I guess you're right, we are pretty much in agreement. I misread your
statement, <<<<<<<<To simplify we should consider that there are tango
steps and figures that are generally done in close embrace such as
walking in different ways and others that require an open embrace to be
performed, independently of the amount of space available for
dancing.>>>>>>>>



I took that to mean that the decision of which steps to use was
"independent of amount of space", and that you could do ganchos, or
whatever, if you just used smaller steps, etc. Sorry that I read it
wrong. I'm sure you don't use big boleos to muscle your way through a
crowded dance floor!



But I also must say that I agree with Robert from Auckland (bravo
Robert!)<<<<<<<<< I dance Milonguero, not because that's the way its
done in BsAs or anywhere else. I dance that style, because that, for me
is where the ultimate connection is, it's where the sweetness, the
pathos and the sheer magic of tango is.>>>>>>>>>>



And to give my opinion on Lois' question; why don't more Argentinians
teach milonguero? It has already been said that many got their start as
stage dancers, and yes, many of them did. That's how they got their
reputation, and the fame, and the money to enable them to make a start
at teaching tango to make a living.



It has also been said that teaching the fancy stuff is where the money
is; that many people (Americans especially), are attracted to tango, and
tango lessons, because of all the fancy stuff they see in the shows and
demonstrations. And to an extent that is true, but its a
self-perpetuating myth. For a long time here in the USA, that's all
people saw or were aware of. And it is attractive. But I also believe
that is changing, and that we'll see a huge growth in Tango Milonguero
over the next decade. Simply because there are more people seeing it,
more people experiencing it, more people exposed to it, and more
opportunities to take lessons from great teachers of milonguero. And as
the Argentines see the success of some of these great teachers, and the
growth in the size of their classes, and the increasing interest of
Americans to study and perfect their "Tango Milonguero", that we'll see
more Argentines coming here to transmit their knowledge. And yes,
because there will be more students, there will be more money.



In my humble opinion, fantasia, or stage dancing is strictly that, a
work undertaken to entertain an audience. Open tango may be fun for
some, but that's all, and is still used to impress those around you.
Salon is fun, and more appropriate socially, but still generally danced
by those searching for new moves, fancier steps; almost an "athletic"
direction to improvement. And while maybe not quite as much to impress
the crowd, still, there is that impression that they're trying to
impress themselves. Tango Milonguero is for nobody but me and my
partner, and the improvement that I search for is almost spiritual in
quality. When me and my partner can exist on the floor oblivious to all
else but the communion of our love for tango, and the synchronicity of
our awareness. When we can both exist in a state where the music tells
us what to do, and the embrace becomes not hands or arms, or even
chests, but heart and body. When you get right down to it, as I learn
more and more, tango becomes less and less about dancing, and more and
more about feeling. I wish I could adequately describe this feeling, but
I don't think anyone can.



So, Sergio, when you write that <<<<<<<<< What I find difficult to
understand is the fact that some groups that have plenty of room
available to dance decide to restrict their dancing style to Milonguero,
close embrace, ONLY because that is the way it is done in the crowded
milongas of B.A.>>>>>>>>>we milongueros know that we are not restricting
ourselves. We look at the dance floor and wonder why everybody else is
restricting themselves from enjoying what we experience.



Warm regards, and only seven days until the Denver Tangofest!



Michael from Houston

Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 08:53:05 -0700
From: Jean-Marie Herve Michel <jhmichel@STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: open, salon, or milonguero?

BRAVO!! BRAVO!!!BRAVO!!!!BRAVO!!! I sometimes read Sergio and I shed a
little tear, just one. Sergio write so beautifully. Sergio I would dance a
god dammed defiant lambada with you in public at a KKK rally in the
backwood of Alabama and kiss you full on the mouth. I LOVE YOU SERGIO!!!!!!

Quoting Michael Figart II <michaelfigart@yahoo.com>:

> Hey Sergio,
>
>
>
> I guess you're right, we are pretty much in agreement. I misread your
> statement, <<<<<<<<To simplify we should consider that there are tango
> steps and figures that are generally done in close embrace such as
> walking in different ways and others that require an open embrace to be
> performed, independently of the amount of space available for
> dancing.>>>>>>>>
>
>
>
> I took that to mean that the decision of which steps to use was
> "independent of amount of space", and that you could do ganchos, or
> whatever, if you just used smaller steps, etc. Sorry that I read it
> wrong. I'm sure you don't use big boleos to muscle your way through a
> crowded dance floor!
>
>
>
> But I also must say that I agree with Robert from Auckland (bravo
> Robert!)<<<<<<<<< I dance Milonguero, not because that's the way its
> done in BsAs or anywhere else. I dance that style, because that, for me
> is where the ultimate connection is, it's where the sweetness, the
> pathos and the sheer magic of tango is.>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>
> And to give my opinion on Lois' question; why don't more Argentinians
> teach milonguero? It has already been said that many got their start as
> stage dancers, and yes, many of them did. That's how they got their
> reputation, and the fame, and the money to enable them to make a start
> at teaching tango to make a living.
>
>
>
> It has also been said that teaching the fancy stuff is where the money
> is; that many people (Americans especially), are attracted to tango, and
> tango lessons, because of all the fancy stuff they see in the shows and
> demonstrations. And to an extent that is true, but its a
> self-perpetuating myth. For a long time here in the USA, that's all
> people saw or were aware of. And it is attractive. But I also believe
> that is changing, and that we'll see a huge growth in Tango Milonguero
> over the next decade. Simply because there are more people seeing it,
> more people experiencing it, more people exposed to it, and more
> opportunities to take lessons from great teachers of milonguero. And as
> the Argentines see the success of some of these great teachers, and the
> growth in the size of their classes, and the increasing interest of
> Americans to study and perfect their "Tango Milonguero", that we'll see
> more Argentines coming here to transmit their knowledge. And yes,
> because there will be more students, there will be more money.
>
>
>
> In my humble opinion, fantasia, or stage dancing is strictly that, a
> work undertaken to entertain an audience. Open tango may be fun for
> some, but that's all, and is still used to impress those around you.
> Salon is fun, and more appropriate socially, but still generally danced
> by those searching for new moves, fancier steps; almost an "athletic"
> direction to improvement. And while maybe not quite as much to impress
> the crowd, still, there is that impression that they're trying to
> impress themselves. Tango Milonguero is for nobody but me and my
> partner, and the improvement that I search for is almost spiritual in
> quality. When me and my partner can exist on the floor oblivious to all
> else but the communion of our love for tango, and the synchronicity of
> our awareness. When we can both exist in a state where the music tells
> us what to do, and the embrace becomes not hands or arms, or even
> chests, but heart and body. When you get right down to it, as I learn
> more and more, tango becomes less and less about dancing, and more and
> more about feeling. I wish I could adequately describe this feeling, but
> I don't think anyone can.
>
>
>
> So, Sergio, when you write that <<<<<<<<< What I find difficult to
> understand is the fact that some groups that have plenty of room
> available to dance decide to restrict their dancing style to Milonguero,
> close embrace, ONLY because that is the way it is done in the crowded
> milongas of B.A.>>>>>>>>>we milongueros know that we are not restricting
> ourselves. We look at the dance floor and wonder why everybody else is
> restricting themselves from enjoying what we experience.
>
>
>
> Warm regards, and only seven days until the Denver Tangofest!
>
>
>
> Michael from Houston
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>

Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:28:56 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: open, salon, or milonguero?

Michael Figart II wrote these seminal words:

"...Tango Milonguero is for nobody but me and my partner, and the
improvement that I search for is almost spiritual in quality. When me and my
partner can exist on the floor oblivious to all else but the communion of
our love for tango, and the synchronicity of our awareness. When we can both
exist in a state where the music tells us what to do, and the embrace
becomes not hands or arms, or even chests, but heart and body. When you get
right down to it, as I learn more and more, tango becomes less and less
about dancing, and more and more about feeling..."

The words worth repeating.

Cheers, Oleh K.
https://TangoSpring.com

Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:41:16 -0700
From: Jean-Marie Herve Michel <jhmichel@STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: open, salon, or milonguero?

SORRY. I menat that I would french kiss and do a lambada with MICHAEL ata
KKK rally in the backwood of missipi..MICHAEL you are beautiful..strap some
ovaries and we are on!!!!

Quoting Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>:

> Michael Figart II wrote these seminal words:
>
> "...Tango Milonguero is for nobody but me and my partner, and the
> improvement that I search for is almost spiritual in quality. When me and
> my
> partner can exist on the floor oblivious to all else but the communion
> of
> our love for tango, and the synchronicity of our awareness. When we can
> both
> exist in a state where the music tells us what to do, and the embrace
> becomes not hands or arms, or even chests, but heart and body. When you
> get
> right down to it, as I learn more and more, tango becomes less and less
> about dancing, and more and more about feeling..."
>
> The words worth repeating.
>
> Cheers, Oleh K.
> https://TangoSpring.com
>
>
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>

Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:01:28 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: open, salon, or milonguero?

Michael Figarti et al wrote:

<So, Sergio, when you write that <<<<<<<<< What I find difficult to
understand is the fact that some groups that have plenty of room available
to dance decide to restrict their dancing style to Milonguero, close
embrace, ONLY because that is the way it is done in the crowded milongas of
B.A.>>>>>>>>>we milongueros know that we are not restricting ourselves. We
look at the dance floor and wonder why everybody else is restricting
themselves from enjoying what we experience.>

A true milonguero experience! May I ask why do you call yourself milonguero?

Just curious,

Bruno