2390 Pichi's post ......... Why I like the milonguero style
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:34:31 +1200
From: Mel Roddie <melroyr@SLINGSHOT.CO.NZ>
Subject: Re: Pichi's post ......... Why I like the milonguero style
Now I won't get into the intricacies of just what Milonguero style is etc. etc. (or real Tango?),
and we have had specific Milonguero style taught in New Zealand.
However I only want to query the line :
"when I return to NZ, I will not be able to use what I have been taught. I would virtually be the
only person in the country that had a grounding, etc ...................
Of course you would, if you can lead it there are plenty of followers here who could follow you !
And you shouldn't have to talk them through it on the floor either.
I won't say any more.
Mel.
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:48:30 +0200
From: Ecsedy Áron <aron.ecsedy@OM.HU>
Subject: Re: Pichi's post ......... Why I like the milonguero style
Dear Everyone,
I don't think that there is such thing as "milongueuro" style. I've heard many theories, but they all lead to the same result: there is no =
single authentic tango style. Or rather: there is no person who dances "authentic" tango in the sense we use the word. (that includes every =
tango dancer who is or WAS in existence, ever. See below.)
Tango had been evolving on a day-to-day basis since the very beginnings. Saying that one style or an other more "ancient" and "authentic" is like =
stating that one race or nation is more ancient than an other. Actually, you will end up that no nation is truly a nation (they are just =
countries consisting of several ethnic communities), because these structures were evolved from (older) others and you end up that you are =
(statistically) related to EVERY SINGLE people who lived on Earth a thousand years ago. The same happens with tango: styles danced in 1880 =
left their marks on todays tango, but you cannot possibly distinguish a single definite (thus: canonized) style in a dance that was not =
coordinated artifically (like European ballroom styles).
The following summary of Christine Denniston's research sounds plausible and coincides with most scientifically acceptable sources:
[milongero style] "was based on the style of the geographical centre of Buenos Aires and the centre of the south of the city in the early 1950s. =
This is a style that is choreographically relatively simple, relying on the connection between the dancers, and their connection with the music. =
While it is possible to dance the other styles of the Golden Age with space between the dancers' bodies (although this was not done during the =
Golden Age), this style makes no sense if it is not done in a close hold.
The great attraction of this style is in the connection within the couple which is necessary to make it work, and which, when done well, is =
tremendously seductive.
One of the most prominent champions of this style, Susanna Miller, coined for it the term "Estilo Milonguero", milonguero style. The word =
milonguero, though it literally means someone who spends a lot of time in milongas, had come to be used to mean someone who had been a regular =
Tango dancer during the Golden Age, before the 1955 coup. While the choice of the term was obviously inspired by the desire to distinguish =
this style from the steps dominated style danced on stage, the unfortunate and unforeseeable consequence was that it set up the idea in =
people's minds that this was the only authentic social Tango style."
(quoted from www.historyoftango.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 08:16:48 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Pichi's post ......... Why I like the milonguero style
There is a good book "El Tango en sus etapas de musica prohibida (Tango in
its developments as prohibited music)" by Jose Sebastian Tallon. It offers a
different perspective on what you may call authentic tango. The book focuses
on the *man of tango* beginning in 1905, the tango music, and the musicians.
On the subject of authenticity, Jose Sebastian Tallon says that there was a
time shortly after 1900 in La Boca de Buenos Aires where two musicians --
Ernesto Zambonini (El Rengo) and Prudencio Aragon (El Yoni) played a
particular style of tango called Canyengue. This music was the craze of the
time but it remained within La Boca. Music groups such as Juan Maglio
Pacho's did not have the same music flavor when his group left La Boca to
play in other cafes.
Un fuerte abrazo,
Bruno
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 1:49 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Pichi's post ......... Why I like the milonguero
style
Dear Everyone,
I don't think that there is such thing as "milongueuro" style. I've heard
many theories, but they all lead to the same result: there is no single
authentic tango style. Or rather: there is no person who dances "authentic"
tango in the sense we use the word. (that includes every tango dancer who is
or WAS in existence, ever. See below.)
Tango had been evolving on a day-to-day basis since the very beginnings.
Saying that one style or an other more "ancient" and "authentic" is like
stating that one race or nation is more ancient than an other. Actually, you
will end up that no nation is truly a nation (they are just countries
consisting of several ethnic communities), because these structures were
evolved from (older) others and you end up that you are (statistically)
related to EVERY SINGLE people who lived on Earth a thousand years ago. The
same happens with tango: styles danced in 1880 left their marks on todays
tango, but you cannot possibly distinguish a single definite (thus:
canonized) style in a dance that was not coordinated artifically (like
European ballroom styles).
The following summary of Christine Denniston's research sounds plausible and
coincides with most scientifically acceptable sources:
[milongero style] "was based on the style of the geographical centre of
Buenos Aires and the centre of the south of the city in the early 1950s.
This is a style that is choreographically relatively simple, relying on the
connection between the dancers, and their connection with the music. While
it is possible to dance the other styles of the Golden Age with space
between the dancers' bodies (although this was not done during the Golden
Age), this style makes no sense if it is not done in a close hold.
The great attraction of this style is in the connection within the couple
which is necessary to make it work, and which, when done well, is
tremendously seductive.
One of the most prominent champions of this style, Susanna Miller, coined
for it the term "Estilo Milonguero", milonguero style. The word milonguero,
though it literally means someone who spends a lot of time in milongas, had
come to be used to mean someone who had been a regular Tango dancer during
the Golden Age, before the 1955 coup. While the choice of the term was
obviously inspired by the desire to distinguish this style from the steps
dominated style danced on stage, the unfortunate and unforeseeable
consequence was that it set up the idea in people's minds that this was the
only authentic social Tango style."
(quoted from www.historyoftango.com)
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:19:50 -0400
From: Clint Rauscher <clint@AXIALPARTNERS.COM>
Subject: Re: Pichi's post ......... Why I like the milonguero style
> There is a good book "El Tango en sus etapas de musica prohibida (Tango in
> its developments as prohibited music)" by Jose Sebastian Tallon.
Any idea where I could get this book? Is it only in Spanish?
> particular style of tango called Canyengue.
I was just about to email people asking if they had any resources on
Canyengue. One of my teachers recently returned from BaS and she took some
Canyengue classes and video taped some of it. I loved it... we have worked
on a few moves. The embrace is very close like "milonguero" but the follow
is tucked into the side and at an angle.. the left arm is down at the waist.
The legs are very bent.. you get down very low, which I like... you feel
incredibly grounded and balanced. Also, it is very playful not at all
serious. I am actually very excited about going to BaS at this point, mainly
to take some Canyengue classes.
Other Resources:
* In Carlos Gardel's film Tango bar.. the only tango dance scene in it is
Canyengue. When they start dancing they say, "This is the dance of our
dandies"
* In Raul Julia's film, also called Tango Bar, there is a flashback scene of
old Tango and they are clearly dancing Canyengue.
* In The Best of Cosmo Tango 2003.. in one of the exhibitions there is a
couple dancing Canyengue in the original Campradito clothing/costume.
On this site here the 8th picture down is the Canyengue embrace:
https://www.bardetango.com.br/17fotosdavisitadepochyeosvaldofls1.3.htm
Here is one of the few web pages I have found on the subject:
https://www.bardetango.com.br/12thecanyengueyorillerotangostyle.htm
Here is a "snippet":
"With the development of salon-style tango, around 1920, and the influence
of ballet in show tango, tango dancing became more rigid as far as the
elegance in posture in concerned. The canyengue style also penetrated the
tango salons and as it was greatly influenced by the posture to dance tango,
it produced the milonguero style which, in fact, is a more sophisticated
canyengue style, though portraying the same original characteristics of
cortes and quebradas ."
Clint
Atlanta
clint@axialpartners.com
---
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Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:26:01 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: Pichi's post ......... Why I like the milonguero style
On Apr 15, 2004, at 1:48 AM, Ecsedy Áron wrote:
> Dear Everyone,
>
> I don't think that there is such thing as "milongueuro" style. I've
> heard many theories, but they all lead to the same result: there is no
> single authentic tango style. Or rather: there is no person who dances
> "authentic" tango in the sense we use the word. (that includes every
> tango dancer who is or WAS in existence, ever. See below.)
Right, there is no single, authentic style.
But, that is not the same as saying there are no styles, or that all
styles are authentic, or that whatever anybody does is tango. You need
rules before you can break them... otherwise all you have is anarchy,
which is just an excuse for "I don't need to learn anything".
Sometimes a style is so distinctive (idiosyncratic?) that we can
attribute it to a single person or school (teachers and their
students).
Some styles are well-documented by a methodology, curriculum and common
choreographies (patterns), or maybe we can talk of a vocabulary and
typical way of assembling the vocabulary into a dance, or maybe we need
to talk about the music (D'Arienzo of the 30s or Pugliese of the 50s):
Salon/Fantasy, Nuevo (Gustavo & Cia), Milonguero, etc. are commonly
used categories that cover some relatively widespread styles, even if
elements are borrowed from one into another.
So I disagree with Ecsedy.
Certainly, you can talk about general categories or styles of tango,
and the name is simply a code word for something longer, like "the kind
of tango the really good dancers did in the 1990s at the famous Almagro
club on Wednesday night".
For some reason the words "Milonguero style" generates outrage and
polemics, that you don't hear when someone mentions "Salon style" or
"Nuevo style".
I first encountered this style, sometimes called "Club style", at
Almagro in 1996, where I was surprised when an attractive young lady
threw her arms around me in a very close embrace. I liked it, but I
didn't know how dance like that, so I resolved to start learning from
scratch. It took two years and a second trip before I achieved enough
skill that the women would dance with me... and come back for more.
Well-known teachers who have presented this style (whatever you name
it), include Susana Miller, Tete, Eduardo Arquimbau, Brigitta Winkler,
Cacho Dante, Yvonne Meissner, Omar Vega, and many others.
As Janis Kenyon would say... "Go to Buenos Aires to see for yourself."
Watch the older dancers who learned in the 40s or 50s. Dance with them.
Dance with younger dancers who learned in the 1990s.
Learn for yourself in the milongas of Buenos Aires, because outside of
Argentina we only have a finite variety of styles commonly presented.
Tom Stermitz
1593 S Roslyn St
Denver, CO 80231
h: 303-388-2560
c: 303-725-5963
