337 Pre-Lead, The Whole Dance !
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:56:57 +1300
From: Melroy Roddie <MelroyR@ADHB.GOVT.NZ>
Subject: Re: Pre-Lead, The Whole Dance !
I have to agree with Clayton on this, Pre-Lead / a Whole Dance !! .........
Tango Hell !
No Thanks, for me Dance is more a continuos interaction, relating to the
music & each other.
But maybe I've missed a whole other Concept ??.
Of course you could plan and dance a series a sequences.
And you could dance & enjoy this too I'm sure.
As long as there is no-one to get in your way ?
A lot of dances (most maybe) are taught like this, you then learn to break
them down and Improvise the components.
However people often get trapped by the sequence
( I also dance Ballroom and see this all the time with relatively new
dancers , same with a The Tango)
This can make it hard to function in a social setting, which pretty much
demands some improving just to get around without being a problem for
everyone else!
I agree with everything Clayton says, I like to dance ' In The Moment'.
But Am Open to New Ideas !! Thanks........ Mel. (NZ).
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 19:36:18 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Pre-Lead, The Whole Dance !
> I have to agree with Clayton on this, Pre-Lead / a Whole Dance !!
.........
> Tango Hell !
> No Thanks, for me Dance is more a continuos interaction, relating to the
> music & each other.
There are obviously still two groups talking about two completely different
things here. One- the poster who started it, forgot his name, who chose this
term to describe something in the posture of the leader before he takes a
step, in order to indicate to the woman what he is going to do. Obviously,
this is not done one-two, but naturally, in a flow of movement, and simply
part of being a good dancer, who does not bang his knees into the woman,
make her stumble and so on. In company of the ones who know that much.
Then there is this other group, who have maybe never heard of or done that
way of leading, who do not know the term, interpreted it semantically, and
came up with the misguided idea, that it must mean to lead several steps in
advance, with no upper limit. And so we end up with this absurd discussion
of how many steps in advance it is ok to lead, or should he or should he
not.
I would appreciate it, if the guy who initiated this subject, would make
people stop this exasperating guessing game by adding a little clarification
to his original posting. Some people don't seem to have payed attention,
when Ronda did it for him.
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 3:36 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Pre-Lead, The Whole Dance !
> I have to agree with Clayton on this, Pre-Lead / a Whole Dance !!
.........
> Tango Hell !
> No Thanks, for me Dance is more a continuos interaction, relating to the
> music & each other.
>>>>
Astrid, you wrote:
There are obviously still two groups talking about two completely different
things here...
<<<<
Astrid, I think it is far worse (or better) than that. While Robert
Madrigal & Charles Roques kicked off a discussion about when the information
in a lead is transmitted for a given step, John Trimble posted a (hugely
ironic, I wager) reply about tic-tac-toe vs. checkers vs. chess as metaphors
for tango conversation, leading (oops) to the absurd idea of a dance with
only one led step, which was "pre-led," but only to D'Arienzo, and of
course, the single "pre-led" step was SO pre-led that it was led before the
music even began, I bet.
John T., you bad boy. No doubt you are thoroughly enjoying being taken so
seriously by so many. All righty then, I'll have you know that I ALWAYS
pre-lead every tango I dance, starting before I even meet my partner.
Indeed, in my experience it is important, for best results, to begin the
pre-leading process well before you have even HEARD of tango - preferably,
in a previous life. This is also known as the "karmic pre-lead" - but only
at Cochabamba 444, on Thursdays with a full moon.
;};};}
Brian Dunn
Boulder, Colorado USA
www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 09:01:13 EST
From: Robert Madrigal <LekkerP@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Pre-Lead, The Whole Dance !
In a message dated 12/4/01 4:48:30 AM Mountain Standard Time,
astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP writes:
> I would appreciate it, if the guy who initiated this subject, would make
> people stop this exasperating guessing game by adding a little clarification
>
Astrid,
You are right, there has been a lot of assumptions made and not enough
attention paid to the original or subsequent clarifications. I have noticed
some delay in clearing the monitors before posting and also one week when
nothing went out on the list. However, I am more amazed that you knew exactly
what was meant and the gentlemen on this list missed the "mark".
The pre-lead is a technique to convey clarity. If you wish to use this
technique throughout the entire dance I can imagine it would be constraining,
however, if I wish to execute a less than common movement, I will use it.
Especially when doing a "cambio de frente" or rotary movements while torguing
my body or pivoting or syncopating her movement. Remember, a good leader will
place his partners feet, exactly where he needs them and care for the rhythm.
If Graciela Gonzales or Leandro Palou/Andrea Misse are ever in your area, I
recommend taking a workshop, as these people are great technicians in
explaining or using exercises to clarify lead/pre-lead skills.
Kudos to you Astrid.
Robert
Santa Fe, NM
