2228 Question about "opening up"
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:32:01 -0600
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Question about "opening up"
I don't like it when some leaders "open up" in order to do a pattern they've
learned. I feel like they are pushing me away. I especially dislike it when
the move could be done in close. (Now, there are some leaders who can do
this smoothly enough so that I hardly notice, and I wish I could describe
the difference). Question one: Am I the only one who feels this way?
Of course I understand that some leaders have to practice a move in open
before they get it in close, but I sometimes feel that the leader learned
the move that way and that's as close as it's ever going to get.
Question two: Why do leaders choose to push the follower away? Do leaders
feel this loss of connection as well? (I can answer part of this myself-some
beginning followers I dance with are not skilled enough to keep the
connection and fall away. I dislike this as well)
Lois
Minneapolis
Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 17:44:56 -0800
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Question about "opening up"
Lois Minneapolis wrote:
"I don't like it when some leaders "open up" in order to do a pattern
they've learned. I feel like they are pushing me away. I especially
dislike it when the move could be done in close."
In my experience as a student, my suspicion is that leaders try new
patterns in the way they learned them. So if the teacher thought the
patter in open, then the student will do the same.
Most patterns done in open can be done in close embrace, and 100% of
social patterns can be done in close embrace. I've seen Nito Garcia,
Pablo Veron, Gustavo, Chicho & Fabian do some amazing combinations in
close embrace (of course in open embrace as well).
Nito can also do them blindfolded.
Hope to see you at Valentango.
Carlos Rojas
Portland, OR
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:32 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] Question about "opening up"
I don't like it when some leaders "open up" in order to do a pattern
they've
learned. I feel like they are pushing me away. I especially dislike it
when
the move could be done in close. (Now, there are some leaders who can do
this smoothly enough so that I hardly notice, and I wish I could
describe
the difference). Question one: Am I the only one who feels this way?
Of course I understand that some leaders have to practice a move in open
before they get it in close, but I sometimes feel that the leader
learned
the move that way and that's as close as it's ever going to get.
Question two: Why do leaders choose to push the follower away? Do
leaders
feel this loss of connection as well? (I can answer part of this
myself-some
beginning followers I dance with are not skilled enough to keep the
connection and fall away. I dislike this as well)
Lois
Minneapolis
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:34:55 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Question about "opening up"
I don't like it when some leaders "open up" in order to do a pattern they've
learned. I feel like they are pushing me away. I especially dislike it when
the move could be done in close.
Why do leaders choose to push the follower away?
IMO, this basically comes down to a physical difficulty to perform the step
in any other way. In order to dance tango while keeping an even connection,
both man and woman need to be flexible around the waist. Their hips have to
be able to turn while the upper body stays facing the partner. This can be
achieved by the ochos-against-the-wall practise,which is tedious but
helpful. There are a number of people who have not put any energy into
developping this flexibility, and I believe,they have learned this "opening
up"- compromise as a cop-out to to do certain steps they are not skilled
enough to do, anyway.
Maybe some teachers rush to teach certain moves,and tell their students:"If
you open up, it is easier". The particularly untrained student may find that
if you open completely, it is even easier, because you can have your whole
body as stiff as an ironing board and still "pivot". Never mind the
connection with the partner, one can always hold the partner at arm's length
and lead with the arms...
I once met a man, who would lead an ocho by first pushing me almost two feet
away from him, and then turn my body towards the side. Once I had completed
the set of four ochos or whatever he had in mind, he would rope me in again.
I met him again a year or two later, and thank God, he had stopped doing
that. But by now he was practising the "high slow gancho- lift up the
woman'as skirt" combination. Well, whatever takes people's fancy... He is
always wearing polished shoes too.
Astrid
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:23:02 -0600
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Opening up
Note to self: Never start an email with "I don't like it when"
I got some interesting responses on and off-list, including some from
excellent leaders whose input I really respect. They remind me (although
they claimed, having more tact than me, it's to followers in general!) not
to be too heavy or clinging. But I also figured out why it is that some
leaders can go from closed to open without my feeling that we are
disconnecting. It all comes down to the axis - they respect my axis. Moving
the follower from shared axis to her own - yeah, I can follow that.
Astrid, please, have a heart! Your descriptions of bad leading are way too
graphic to read after a full meal!
Lois
Minneapolis, MN
