3388 Question on salidas
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 09:51:17 -0700
From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Question on salidas
Hi!
I have a really simple question that I hope won't turn
into a debate about the 8-count basic.
I'm writing a short piece about different salidas for
a tango presentation, and would like to refer to the
8CB as an "8-count salida". This seems accurate and
would discourage the notion that it is THE basic step
of tango. How does that sound?
Technically, a salida is simply an entry onto the
dance floor, correct?
I have the impression that the cross-foot salida is
actually the more common salida in B.A.
Thanks,
Trini de Pittsburgh
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 10:10:02 -0700
From: Carlos Rojas <Crojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
Trini de Pittsburgh wrote:
"Technically, a salida is simply an entry onto the
dance floor, correct?"
Salida in Spanish has 2 meanings, 1 is exit, the other which we use in tango
means "start", as an example, in a marathon race, the start will be called
the "salida". So the answer to your question is: not really, "salida" means
the start of the dance (for the couple).
"I have the impression that the cross-foot salida is
actually the more common salida in B.A."
This is not what I have experienced in BA, or anywhere else in the US for
that matter. (don't know about Europe)
Carlos Rojas
El Morocho
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:51 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] Question on salidas
Hi!
I have a really simple question that I hope won't turn
into a debate about the 8-count basic.
I'm writing a short piece about different salidas for
a tango presentation, and would like to refer to the
8CB as an "8-count salida". This seems accurate and
would discourage the notion that it is THE basic step
of tango. How does that sound?
Technically, a salida is simply an entry onto the
dance floor, correct?
I have the impression that the cross-foot salida is
actually the more common salida in B.A.
Thanks,
Trini de Pittsburgh
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:23:59 -0500
From: Michael Ditkoff <tangomaniac@CAVTEL.NET>
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
Trini wrote:
>
> I'm writing a short piece about different salidas for
> a tango presentation, and would like to refer to the
> 8CB as an "8-count salida".
> Thanks,
> Trini de Pittsburgh
Trini:
Good topic. You're correct. There are many types of salidas.
To name a few:
Antipasto salida
Artichoke salida
Avocado salida
Chicken salida
and my favorite-- from Italy
Caesar salida
Now, the salidas come with adornments. The most popular
adornment is Croutons.
Other decorations come in Russian, Thousand Island (has
anybody ever counted), and Bleu Cheese.
Hope this helps.
Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Just getting hungry writing this message -- and just had
lunch
4 weeks to Denver Tango Festival
11 weeks to New York's tango festival where we will
celebrate the 100th
anniversary of the Staten Island Ferry. (Last year we
celebrated the
100th anniversary of the subway.)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:53:10 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
Depending on how you divide it up, an 8-count basic consists of at least
three parts: a salida, a walk to the cross and a tango close.
Consequently, calling it an 8-count salida may be just as problematic as
calling it the 8-count basic. The confusion about it not being the basic
is gone, but a new confusion arises. How about calling it el basico para
exportacion (the basic for export)?
With best regards,
Steve (de Tejas)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 20:00:23 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Question on salidas
Salida (as Carlos explains) means exit or start.
In my opinion at least in Argentina, Salida refers both to the way you start
dancing but also the entry into the dancing floor.
To encourage somebody who is sitting to go and dance one says : "Sali a
bailar" (sali - go to dance), if he is not dancing one may ask "porque no
salis a bailar?" (why don't you dance?").
An 8 count salida would be an appropriate name for this figure but it is
generally known as "la base" (the base) and I do not think that anybody can
remove that name.
Generally speaking any form in which you commence to dance can be called "a
salida".
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 16:41:46 -0400
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
Michael, you forgot the most authentic salida, the Argentinean "salida
mixta" ;)
Manuel
>From: Michael Ditkoff <tangomaniac@CAVTEL.NET>
>Reply-To: tangomaniac@CAVTEL.NET
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Question on salidas
>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 14:23:59 -0500
>
>Trini wrote:
> >
> > I'm writing a short piece about different salidas for
> > a tango presentation, and would like to refer to the
> > 8CB as an "8-count salida".
>
> > Thanks,
> > Trini de Pittsburgh
>
>Trini:
>Good topic. You're correct. There are many types of salidas.
>To name a few:
>
>
>Antipasto salida
>Artichoke salida
>Avocado salida
>Chicken salida
>
>and my favorite-- from Italy
>
>Caesar salida
>
>Now, the salidas come with adornments. The most popular
>adornment is Croutons.
>Other decorations come in Russian, Thousand Island (has
>anybody ever counted), and Bleu Cheese.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Michael Ditkoff
>Washington, DC
>Just getting hungry writing this message -- and just had
>lunch
>
>4 weeks to Denver Tango Festival
>
>11 weeks to New York's tango festival where we will
>celebrate the 100th
> anniversary of the Staten Island Ferry. (Last year we
>celebrated the
> 100th anniversary of the subway.)
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:39:15 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
Trini wrote:
>I'm writing a short piece about different salidas for
a tango presentation, and would like to refer to the
8CB as an "8-count salida".<
My 2 cents:
May want to consider using "base" or "bases" instead of "salida" or
"salidas". For example, la(s) base(s) 8, 6, o de 4 pasos. La "base" is
mentioned by Petaca, Manuel Romero, Manolo, et. al. in their teaching
videos.
Best regards,
Bruno
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:15:23 -0700
From: Iron Logic <railogic@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
>>
May want to consider using "base" or "bases" instead of "salida" or
"salidas". For example, la(s) base(s) 8, 6, o de 4 pasos. La "base" is
mentioned by Petaca, Manuel Romero, Manolo, et. al. in their teaching
videos.
>>
2 more cents...
IMO, the "salida" niether the "base" nor the "basic" step of tango, its merely a practice sequence which includes walk to the back, side, front, women's cross etc.
Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET> wrote:
Trini wrote:
>I'm writing a short piece about different salidas for
a tango presentation, and would like to refer to the
8CB as an "8-count salida".<
My 2 cents:
May want to consider using "base" or "bases" instead of "salida" or
"salidas". For example, la(s) base(s) 8, 6, o de 4 pasos. La "base" is
mentioned by Petaca, Manuel Romero, Manolo, et. al. in their teaching
videos.
Best regards,
Bruno
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 15:44:38 -0700
From: Iron Logic <railogic@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
how about "Paso basico de la practica"?
Iron Logic wrote:
>>
May want to consider using "base" or "bases" instead of "salida" or
"salidas". For example, la(s) base(s) 8, 6, o de 4 pasos. La "base" is
mentioned by Petaca, Manuel Romero, Manolo, et. al. in their teaching
videos.
>>
2 more cents...
IMO, the "salida" niether the "base" nor the "basic" step of tango, its merely a practice sequence which includes walk to the back, side, front, women's cross etc.
Bruno wrote:
Trini wrote:
>I'm writing a short piece about different salidas for
a tango presentation, and would like to refer to the
8CB as an "8-count salida".<
My 2 cents:
May want to consider using "base" or "bases" instead of "salida" or
"salidas". For example, la(s) base(s) 8, 6, o de 4 pasos. La "base" is
mentioned by Petaca, Manuel Romero, Manolo, et. al. in their teaching
videos.
Best regards,
Bruno
Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 18:47:31 EDT
From: LGMoseley@AOL.COM
Subject: Salida
I had always thought that "salida" meant "exit", "going out", "going away"
or something like that in English. At some railway stations, I think that
salida means "Way Out". At first that puzzled me because when I was beginning at
Tango, the salida was taught as comming at the beginning, not at the end,
which is where one might expect an exit to be.
However, I then noted that a door can be between two rooms. To go through a
doorway - to go out of room A - means that you are going into room B. It then
struck me that the man was inviting the lady up from her chair and leading
her out (yes out) onto the floor.
There must be many ways to do it. The commonest one that I have observed
(and which I often use myself) is
Invite the lady into your embrace, perhaps with your back to the line of
dance (either directly or diagonally)
Lead her to step sideways to your left (her right) with a change of weight,
having checked that the way is clear
Turn your shoulders towards the line on which you intend to dance
Swivel slightly on your left foot to face that line of dance
Pause (perhaps with some right gentle right foot tapping or whatever to fill
in the time till your way is clear)
Then lead off down the line of dance with your right foot
That is, though, only one way of getting on to the floor
Is it really any more compex than that - just getting out onto the floor?
Laurie (Laurence)
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 01:28:01 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
Iron Logic wrote:
>IMO, the "salida" niether the "base" nor the "basic" step of tango, its
merely a practice sequence which includes walk to the back, side, front,
women's cross etc.<
Two more cents:
I think that explaining the salida, base , or basic in terms of back, side,
front is one practical or logical way to analyze the dance, but it does not
discuss the ideas of those who created these figures.
I come to believe that the base, basic, and salida are archetypes of a
popular trend by dancers to practice figures following the measures of the
tango music, and observing body positions when dancing as a couple.
Simplifying the salida, base, or basic into a sequence of steps misses the
point behind what the creators of these figures had in mind.
Best regards,
Bruno
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 09:51:12 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
We are coming dangerously close to discussing the pluses and minuses of
using figures, such as the 8-count basic for dancing and teaching.
:-) :-) :-)
Bruno wrote:
>I come to believe that the base, basic, and salida are archetypes of a
>popular trend by dancers to practice figures following the measures of
the
>tango music, and observing body positions when dancing as a couple.
>Simplifying the salida, base, or basic into a sequence of steps misses
the
>point behind what the creators of these figures had in mind.
I agree that we run the danger of simplfying ourselves away from an
essence of tango if we take any combination down to it component back
steps, side steps, forward steps, cross and joining steps without thinking
about how they contribute to the whole. Certainly, we may not be able to
see the whole forest when we are examining individual trees. In learning
and dancing tango, the challenge is in developing a perspective that
allows us to understand how individual movements contribute to the whole.
We learn both the trees and the forest.
With best regards,
Steve
----------
Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves
up and hurry off as if nothing has happened.
--Winston Churchill
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:54:04 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Question on Salidas - La base
You will see below all the definitions the dictionary gives for the word
salida (14), It also gives 28 possibilities for the use of the verb "Salir".
Out of 14 possibilities only 1 could have a relationship to the use of the
word "Salida" in tango.
Going from the sitting area (outside) to the dancing floor (inside).
But the word salida or rather the verb "salir" is used in other ways not
listed by the dictionary I consulted on line.
For instance "Salir de testigo" or "Salir en defensa de.." To (come out) to
testify or as a witness.
I will have to conclude that in tango "salida" means: 1 - The way we start
to dance. 2 - The act of going from outside the dancing floor to inside the
dancing floor.
As to the base, most people do not think about it as being the basic step of
tango but rather as a frame from where multiple figures may be constructed;
something such as the foundation of a building on which one builds different
foors or rooms.
The other ballroom dances, on the other hand, generally have a simple basic
step which is thought of as being different, distinct from any other
figures; although in actuality other elements are built on it as well.
Salida:
# 4 - says: The passage from inside to outside . Exit
#5 - says: Place through which you go out . Exit
#6 - Partida del tren - El tren sale a las 8 - The train (leaves) at 8
o'clock.
#7 - Place from which something starts .
#8 - The (coming out) of a star or the sun.
1 - adj. Se dice de lo que sobresale en un cuerpo mas de lo regular: tiene
la barbilla muy salida.
2 - Se apl. a los animales en celo.
3 - vulg. Se dice de las personas que sienten gran deseo sexual: ese salido
se pasa el dma diciendo grosermas a las mujeres.
4 - f. Paso de dentro afuera: la salida del metro.
5 - Lugar por donde se sale: te espero en la salida.
6 - Partida de un lugar: la salida del tren sera a las seis.
7 - Punto de partida: los corredores se agolpaban en la salida.
8 - Accisn de salir un astro y momento en que se produce: la salida del Sol.
9 - Pretexto, recurso: tiene salidas para todo.
10 - Medio con que se soluciona una dificultad o se vence un peligro: halls
la salida a sus problemas.
11 - Dicho agudo, ocurrencia: nos remmos con su salida.
12 - Posibilidad de venta de un producto: estos nuevos bolmgrafos tendran
muy buena salida.
13 - Futuro, posibilidad favorable que ofrece algo. Mas en pl.: estudis una
carrera sin salidas.
14 - salida de tono col. Dicho inconveniente: tus salidas de tono te van a
traer disgustos
salir
tr. Pasar de dentro afuera. Tambiin prnl.: salte de ese coche cuanto
antes.
Desencajarse una cosa. Tambiin prnl.: se me ha salido el corchete.
Partir de un lugar a otro: maqana salen para Parms.
Ir a tomar el aire, pasear, distraerse: sal y diviirtete.
Librarse de un lugar o situacisn peligrosos: no si csmo salir del apuro.
Aparecer: ya ha salido la Luna.
Brotar, nacer: salir el trigo.
Aparecer alguien en una foto, filmacisn, libro, etc.: sus padres salieron en
la tele.
Mantener con alguien una relacisn amorosa: empezaron a salir siendo muy
jsvenes.
Apartarse, separarse. Tambiin prnl.: salirse de la carretera.
Descubrirse el caracter de alguien o las caractermsticas de algo: el crmo
salis muy travieso.
Decir o hacer algo inesperado o que causa extraqeza: salis con que la culpa
fue nuestra.
Ocurrir, sobrevenir: me ha salido otro encargo.
Costar una cosa: la estancia en ese hotel sale muy cara.
Resultar una cuenta: en la factura salimos por mil pesetas cada uno.
Corresponder a cada uno una cantidad: salimos a cinco mil por persona.
Quedar, venir a ser: salir vencedor.
Tener buen o mal ixito: salis bien del examen.
Conseguir hacer bien una cosa: los guisos le salen estupendos.
Parecerse, asemejarse: ha salido a su madre.
Ser elegido en un sorteo, votacisn, etc.: salir un nzmero en la loterma.
Ir a parar: esta calle sale a la plaza.
prnl. Derramarse por una rendija un lmquido: el vino se salis por una grieta
de la barrica.
Rebosar un lmquido al hervir: se me ha salido la leche.
salir adelante loc. Llegar a feliz tirmino en algo: el proyecto salis
adelante gracias al voto favorable de los accionistas.
salir uno pitando loc. col. Echar a correr o salir muy deprisa: salis
pitando porque llegaba tarde.
salirle cara una cosa a uno loc. Resultar perjudicado en algo: esas
tontermas te van a salir muy caras.
salirse con la suya loc. Hacer su voluntad: este pequeqajo siempre se sale
con la suya. Irreg. Viase conj. modelo
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:53:45 -0400
From: tanguerochino@NETSCAPE.NET
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
Trini or Sean - PATangoS wrote:
>... and would like to refer to the
>8CB as an "8-count salida"
8CB is a sequence of steps, not a "salida".
From what I understand, "salida" is the very first step of a sequence. The first step is the "Salida", and the last step "cerra la figura" (closes the sequence). The most important salida in a dance is the one taken to "enter" the dance floor.
With this definition, the salida can be any step - forward, side, or even backward (carefully done) ;-). It can even be cross steps (as in ochos). And all of the above can be done in the parallel or crossed system (I hate that word, but can't think of another to replace it for now).
My 2 cents.
Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 18:38:37 -0700
From: Iron Logic <railogic@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
I dont completely disagree. On the other hand whatever creators of the 8 count "basic" may have had in mind perhaps they did not communicate.
In any case irrespective its merits or lack of that[ for learning tango], I was only suggesting that 8CB should is better called a practice step, so the beginners do not circle around milonga repeatedly performing 8CB because teacher called it the "basic" step. After all that is what you do when you start dancing salsa, swing etc, .
Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET> wrote:Iron Logic wrote:
>IMO, the "salida" niether the "base" nor the "basic" step of tango, its
merely a practice sequence which includes walk to the back, side, front,
women's cross etc.<
Two more cents:
I think that explaining the salida, base , or basic in terms of back, side,
front is one practical or logical way to analyze the dance, but it does not
discuss the ideas of those who created these figures.
I come to believe that the base, basic, and salida are archetypes of a
popular trend by dancers to practice figures following the measures of the
tango music, and observing body positions when dancing as a couple.
Simplifying the salida, base, or basic into a sequence of steps misses the
point behind what the creators of these figures had in mind.
Best regards,
Bruno
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 00:41:50 -0700
From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Question on salidas
Hola listeros,
Thank you for all of the information. Thank you,
also, for staying on topic.
The word "base" satisfies the salon dancers I am
working with, as well as, myself. So we have a
winner. "Base" has a more neutral connotation than
"basic" or "basico".
I was perturbed a bit when a couple of salon
dancers/teachers (one relatively new to tango) had
referred to the 8CB as "traditional", I suspect
because of the use of "basic". Although the 8CB has
been around for about 35 years now, I would not say it
is "traditional".
From what I have seen, the only dancers who do
resolucion regularly are salon dancers. All other
styles mainly use counts 2-5 or 3-5.
I have also noticed that in recent teaching videos and
in workshops, there seems to be a movement away from
using the 8CB. Though, I have only done a cursory
overview. I found it interesting that Fabian Salas'
video does the 8CB but he doesn't count it out,
apparently in recognition of the issues surrounding
it.
Any followups?
Trini de Pittsburgh
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 05:21:19 EDT
From: LGMoseley@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Question on Salidas - La base
_sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM_ (mailto:sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM)
wrote
"I will have to conclude that in tango "salida" means: 1 - The way we start
to dance. 2 - The act of going from outside the dancing floor to inside the
dancing floor".
It is that simple, isn't it?
Laurie (Laurence)
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:08:52 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango@FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: Salida
Trini wrote:
The word "base" satisfies the salon dancers I am
working with, as well as, myself. So we have a
winner. "Base" has a more neutral connotation than
"basic" or "basico".>>>
"Base" has three definitions in English: (1) base as in air/naval base; (2)
basis, foundation (i.e. to take as one's starting point), and (3) basic as
in basic wage. "Basico" means basic, fundamental.
In your research you may come across Rodolfo Dinzel's book in which he
describes the basic step of tango danza. He's still teaching it in all his
classes. Juan Carlos Copes is another stage performer who teaches an
eight-step basic in his classes as the foundation of tango danza.
View the Asi se Baile El Tango videos with Osvaldo Zotto and Mora Godoy.
They do the 8CB throughout always finishing with the fwd/side/close. It's
not the way tango is danced in the milonga of Buenos Aires, but is being
sold as such.
You're right about leaving off the tango close. The salida of the
milongueros begins with a side step left down the line of dance and ends
with the feet together. Milongueros do six steps in their salida.
Janis
Buenos Aires
