2866  Real men, real tango

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:52:07 -0700
From: Jay Jenkins <jayjenkins888@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Real men, real tango

Well, well it seems that this morning we have many absurd notes .

Aurelio thinks I am talking about Chinese tango. He likes to imitate certain style danced in Buenos Aires. I never mentioned Chinese or English tango ??, the certain style that Aurelio wishes all of us to imitate is not the only one being danced in Buenos Aires.
Did you know that? If you did not -tell me - How many times do we have to repeat the same story?

Then Carlos Amok talks about respect for the elderly. I always respected and idolized the elderly. I lived in Argentina for a while, every one there respects the elderly, the same as we do here.
That respect does not prevent anyone from making jokes about any subject. So talking about oxygen mask, oxygen bubbles, wheel chairs is not lack of respect (IMO), (the same as talking about obesity is not disrespect for fat people) it is to have some sense of humor. Do you know what sense of humor is? For your information dear Carlos Amok, Buenos Aires is full of nursing homes, they are called "Geriatricos".

Then we have Cella (or Cigdem) she talks about real people, technique, money, controls, feeling, strength, honor, character, attitude, shadows, dust and finally hell. In summary she talks about everything except tango.
I am scared now.

It seems that unless you dance with Janis and the old milongueros in those crowded rooms you are not real, you lack all those attributes that she talks about and then you are condemned to dust and hell. Oh No! - I am lost for eternity. In case of doubt do the Fox-Trot, it is safer.

I personally like to dance in places with some space to move, with good ventilation, comfortable temperature and free of smoke.
Good music, good partners to do the style that I feel like doing (Milonguero, Salon or Nuevo). I wonder if I could qualify for purgatory.

I am really worried now : Am I a real man? Am I doing the true tango? or perhaps I am real only when doing the little moves in the crowded place and not real when dancing with boleos, ganchos and amagues while dancing in most other places.

What do you think? I am anxiously waiting for your answer. Please Cella do not make me wait too long. I am in distress.

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:00:28 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Real men, real tango

Jay Jenkins wrote:

>That respect does not prevent anyone from making jokes about any subject.

So talking about oxygen mask, oxygen bubbles, wheel chairs is not lack of
respect (IMO), (the same as talking about obesity is not disrespect for fat
people) it is to have some sense of humor. Do you know what sense of humor
is? For your information dear Carlos Amok, Buenos Aires is full of nursing
homes, they are called "Geriatricos".<


Old people, fat people jokes only perpetuate stereotypes and convey the myth
that old and fat people do not mind when people make fun of them. Your
message is loud and clear: old and fat people will only be accepted if they
do not mind being humiliated and do not make a fuss.

Regards,

Bruno

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:05:02 -0600
From: Bernhard Michaelis <bernhard@NATIVECHILD.COM>
Subject: Re: Real men, real tango

> So talking about oxygen mask,
> oxygen bubbles, wheel chairs is not lack of respect (IMO), (the same

as talking about obesity is not

> disrespect for fat people) it is to have some sense of humor. Do you

know what sense of humor is?

you obviously don't know what humor is. I have been on lists and message
boards long before the Internet became popular and read countless
messages. Yours deserves to be labeled as one of the top 5 most
disrespectful and insulting ones I ever read. But of course, your
arrogance does not permit you to have this awareness.

As far as the article is concerned: I have arrived at similar
conclusions in respect to taking lessons from countless travelling tango
teachers. I stopped doing so, once I realized that there are actually
different styles (a piece of valuable information that should be
explained to any newcomer to tango the moment he/she takes his/her first
lesson). Especially as a beginner it is utterly confusing to hear and
see one teacher condemn what the previous one described as the only
'true' way. There are also many seasoned dancers who proclaim to be able
to dance any style - yet instead of staying connected to the chest in
the 'milonguero' style i.e. through the steps, they seperate. Who am I
as a beginner to tell them that they confuse close embrace with
'milonguero' style?
Bernhard

P.S.
Sergio, if Jay will also go to paradise, i'd rather go to hell!! <g>

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 14:28:01 -0400
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Real men, real tango

>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>

>Old people, fat people jokes only perpetuate stereotypes and convey the
>myth
>that old and fat people do not mind when people make fun of them. Your
>message is loud and clear: old and fat people will only be accepted if they
>do not mind being humiliated and do not make a fuss.

>Regards,

>Bruno

Actually Bruno, the stereotypes that we should be worried about are not
about old, fat or stupid people, but rather about the unmitigated and
totally gratuitous attacks on people who can dance tango very well
(extraordinarily well actually) by those who cannot. The whole thing reminds
me of the smear attacks and mud slinging more appropritae in the mainstream
press and the presidential political campaigns.

Just who decides what's real tango and what's new tango? Furthermore how can
a few misguided folks who can barely get around the dance floor themselves
presume to judged the inner and exterior quality of the artistic expression
of true masters?

Just for the record, the most vilified of steps that such people attribute
to "nuevo tango" (whatever that is), are in truth the very essence of tango.
Good grief, the ganchos, cortes, quebradas, lapices, ochos, corridas and
sentadas are the most authentic of tango steps. Those were the very
beginings of the tango. These are steps of tradition and legend. They are
sung about and described in old "authentic" tango songs.

I don't know who are and are not in Janis' approved list of "milongueros",
but even a cursory look at the many video tapes available of the many
"noches de los milongueros" from Fabian Salas' CITA, will show that the old
milongueros are actually quite adept at performing rather interesting and
"showy" tango steps and sequences. So far, of every person that writes these
silly diatribes against "show tango", I've never met the first one who could
reliably do an ocho cortado to the music or a simple arroje to the right or
left, let alone complete a turn. Now, If one of you is out there who I've
not seen dance yet and feels he or she can do it, please accept that I'm not
talking about you.

Authentic tangos to all,

Manuel

Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 20:46:22 -0300
From: CARLOS AMOK <desdelejosetejuna@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: Real men, real tango, REAL CONFUSED PERSON

I am very surprised that you mentioned me in relation
with this posting.
?Estas seguro de lo que quiere decir absurdo?.
Se ve que vivistes en bsas , pero perdistes el
diccionario en la mudanza.-
los textos que mencionas bajo mi nombre no son mios.
Yo nunca escribi sobre esos temas que vos me
imputas....
'?que te molesta tanto para atribuirme textos que no
son mios? .-
?no te estara faltando oxigeno en el sistema
neuronal?, anda pensando en el geriatrico,,,, te puede
ayudar...
Para ayudarte a discriminar "absurdo de real" te
enviare copia del original por separado con la firma
original que no es la mia.-
En realidad, creo que se te mezclaron los tantos como
les pasa a tus idolos, aunque no pareces tan
mayor,aunque muy gringo de alma....-
Carlos Amok


--- Jay Jenkins <jayjenkins888@YAHOO.COM> escribis:

> Well, well it seems that this morning we have many
> absurd notes .
>
> Aurelio thinks I am talking about Chinese tango. He
> likes to imitate certain style danced in Buenos
> Aires. I never mentioned Chinese or English tango
> ??, the certain style that Aurelio wishes all of us
> to imitate is not the only one being danced in
> Buenos Aires.
> Did you know that? If you did not -tell me - How
> many times do we have to repeat the same story?
>
> Then Carlos Amok talks about respect for the
> elderly. I always respected and idolized the
> elderly. I lived in Argentina for a while, every
> one there respects the elderly, the same as we do
> here.
> That respect does not prevent anyone from making
> jokes about any subject. So talking about oxygen
> mask, oxygen bubbles, wheel chairs is not lack of
> respect (IMO), (the same as talking about obesity is
> not disrespect for fat people) it is to have some
> sense of humor. Do you know what sense of humor is?
> For your information dear Carlos Amok, Buenos Aires
> is full of nursing homes, they are called
> "Geriatricos".
>
> Then we have Cella (or Cigdem) she talks about real
> people, technique, money, controls, feeling,
> strength, honor, character, attitude, shadows, dust
> and finally hell. In summary she talks about
> everything except tango.
> I am scared now.
>
> It seems that unless you dance with Janis and the
> old milongueros in those crowded rooms you are not
> real, you lack all those attributes that she talks
> about and then you are condemned to dust and hell.
> Oh No! - I am lost for eternity. In case of doubt do
> the Fox-Trot, it is safer.
>
> I personally like to dance in places with some space
> to move, with good ventilation, comfortable
> temperature and free of smoke.
> Good music, good partners to do the style that I
> feel like doing (Milonguero, Salon or Nuevo). I
> wonder if I could qualify for purgatory.
>
> I am really worried now : Am I a real man? Am I
> doing the true tango? or perhaps I am real only when
> doing the little moves in the crowded place and not
> real when dancing with boleos, ganchos and amagues
> while dancing in most other places.
>
> What do you think? I am anxiously waiting for your
> answer. Please Cella do not make me wait too long.
> I am in distress.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> Tango-A rather than to
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> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
>

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