696 Real People
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 07:41:20 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Real People
A few have portrayed the roles of men and women in tango as an idealized
expression of courtly manners in a culture that is different from that
found NYC. Some have offered observations about how masculine and feminine
energies affects the way one might dance. Like Sarah, I doubt that the
opportunity to be masquerade as a real man or real woman is why tango
speaks to people all over the world today.
As much as some people try to make it so, tango is not as a museum piece
that allows us to engage in a nostalgia for an idealized era that didn't
ever quite exist--when men were real men and women were real women. I
doubt many of today's tango dancers would have put much effort to develop
skill in a dance that is archaic or expresses an archaic view of the world.
Tango speaks to us now because it provides a way to express oneself in the
arms of another. No more and no less. Self expression is what appeals to
the real person.
As society changes, a social dance form such as tango evolves. It if did
not change, tango would not continue. Indicative of these changes is the
emergence of the nuevo and liquid styles of tango over the past decade.
(By the way, The current issue of ReporTango contains an interview with
Fabian Salas and Carolina Del Rivero, in which Fabian talks a little bit
about the emergence of nuevo tango.) The attempts to create a genderless
expression in tango have been far more successful in performance than
social dancing because it does not express a direction that society is
taking.
It is somewhat surprising to see someone resort to ad homenim ageism in an
attempt to criticize those who are examining how self expression in tango
reflects masculine and feminine energies. One need not have hidebound
traditionalist attitudes to participate in such a discussion.
I seriously doubt that the views expressed by the few participants in this
discussion affect at all the attractiveness to Argentine tango to those in
NYC who were born after 1970. Most likely it is simply the presesence of
people who are 35 years and older who keep the younger dancers away. The
United States has a very age-conscious society, and most people in their
20s to early 30s simply do not mix much socially with those who are older,
except at traditional family gatherings.
In dancing and teaching tango what I observe is that dancing tango is an
expression of how the person presents themselves in the world. Those who
are argumentative dance argumentatively. Those who are aggressive dance
aggressively. Those who lack confidence dance without confidence. Those
who are shy dance faintly. Those who are verbal dance with their mouths.
Dancing tango with observable grace calls for a balance of energies, and
that balance might be called grace.
Abrazos to all,
Steve
Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 09:53:10 -0700
From: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Real People
> In dancing and teaching tango what I observe is that
> dancing tango is an expression of how the person
> presents themselves in the world. Those who
> are argumentative dance argumentatively. Those who
> are aggressive dance aggressively. Those who lack
> confidence dance without confidence. Those
> who are shy dance faintly. Those who are verbal
> dance with their mouths. Dancing tango with
> observable grace calls for a balance of energies,
and
> that balance might be called grace.
Nicely put Steve!
Real men come in all varieties. So the concept of
asking what is a real man "in tango" makes very little
sense to me. No matter what a man may pretend to be
or feel he must do or act like in tango, a woman can
always tell by dancing with him who he really is.
So be genuine.
-rose-
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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:13:03 -0700
From: david hodgson <tangoman7@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Real People.......
Well, alrighty then:
With this string IMHO, I have seen just a little of
what is described as a real man, or woman for that
matter.
Most of what I have seen is a description of Chivalry.
Which was a written code of how people should conduct
their lives. It describes certain manners, ways of
speaking, dressing, acting so that people at that time
would keep from killing each other or rules so one
could justify killing one another. Being that people
were learning to become "Civilized".
For me some ideals really work as well as they
possibly back in the 10-11 century. Others I could
care less about.
Chivalry is as illusive a term as Bushido or
Tango . There is not a living soul at any time in
history, which could tell you exactly what these
things are. The stories and tales that are written and
told, are to point what these ideals mean. There are
people who exemplified through their lives or an
action what many people would agree that was
Chivalric or that was Bushdo or that was Tango .
Some examples of each that have had deep meaning for
me are:
Chivalry : When King Arthur was threatened with
death by the Green Knight and Parsival (Who was a
Squire) stepped up to take Arthur s place when no
other Knight would, when given the opportunity.
To me an act of unconditional love and selfless
devotion.
Bushido : There is the tale of the 47 Ronin who
avenged their master, who was wrongfully setup to
commit Seppiku.
To me an act of dedication.
Tango : The lives of Guardel, Piazzolla, and
countless others.
Who were exiled because of something they believed in
or expressed. Often they came back to the place they
started from and had become some thing more than what
they were.
Have I perfected these ideals, not by a long shot. I
have been known to fart, belch, tell an occasional bad
joke and occasionally am a bit crude of language (I am
sure any dedicated grammarian is vomiting right now).
As far as Passion or Romance these are wonderful
experiences that sometimes get us in trouble. They are
sometimes things people try to make happen and try to
keep from being temporal.
Concerning a balance of male and female. Give me a
bloody break. I know of some women who are fantastic
leads and some men who are great follows. I agree
about the lead having a certain role, the follow
having a certain role and some of the fundamental
differences between them. If someone wants to use
masculine and feminine in a descriptive way and to
simplify communication, I am all for it.
Anything short of that .Haza .
If any one does want to respond please email me at:
Dhodgson@Tango777.com
As my Yahoo mail box is full.
Take care and back to studying for me.
David Hodgson
=====
Ever thus to the Spirit of the Dance
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Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 05:28:52 EDT
From: Timothy Pogros <TimmyTango@AOL.COM>
Subject: Real People
I'm reading so many different ideas of what a real man or person is, dealing
with tango or life. But what I really here is, all you need to treat other
people like you would want to be treated.
How a man treats a women. Well, for my self, I know I can treat my tango
partner better as a person and as a friend. I could stop thinking of myself
more, and start thinking of what her needs are. Walking off the dance floor
with her hand in mine would be a good starter. Romantically, I feel the Latin
men have it over the Americans. As American men I think we all feel we're
great lovers and romantics, and the tango sometimes makes me feel in charge.
Dominate over the women, a real romantic. Where really I could sure use some
lessons on how to be a better friend and lover.
In Argentina men show their respect for women openly. Where I feel American
men might feel they would loose there machoism if they did.
While visiting New York with my partner, an argentine gentlemen was friendly
with my partner. For the first time I was jealous. Was he hitting on my
partner, or just being a Latin gentlemen? I'll really never know, but BOY
could I use some lessons from him on how to treat a lady. I could see in her
eyes something different how she looked and acted with him. In my eyes this
gentlemen was the true essence of Machoism.
I just want to end this letter by saying
Thank You Joanne for being my friend, and tango better half. No one feel like
Joanne when we dance. No one fit my torso like Joanne.
Thank you for putting up with me and my flaws this long. I still have
difficulty saying the "L" word, so please bear with me, you are in my heart.
