2071  Regarding Milonga

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 15:14:40 -0400
From: Keith Elshaw <keith@TOTANGO.NET>
Subject: Regarding Milonga

As this is a subject dear to my heart, I shall offer my 2 Canadian cents in
the hope that more discussion will prompt more interest. (Hopefully you
old-timers will let me get away with this in the hope that the newer members
of the list might find something for themselves in this ...)

We all know milonga is difficult. In fact, scary to many women (because the
men get wild) and daunting to many men.

I have not seen many of the big name teachers who do it in a way that
appeals to me. I personally don't go for doing tango steps faster as
milonga. It doesn't seem to me that leading a cross is ideal milonga, for
instance. That's not a rule, just an inclination.

I will mention 3 who I do like (in a rising scale): Jorge Firpo (but he
likes to go-go-go), Eduardo Arquimbau (Mr. Bag of Tricks) and, in
particular, Miguel Angel Zotto (he can't stop dancing - but he breathes and
plays in slow motion).

I very much look forward to being around Miguel for a week every year at the
Miami Tango Fantasy because his milonga totally inspires me. There has been
a resultant major spill-over effect into my vals and tango that was
invigorating. I suggest this benefit is there for all to reap.

It's not about "the steps," (duh ...) it's about the feeling. What Miguel
does is more akin to milonguero than stage. And I'm a social dancer. I just
want to take any woman anywhere and dance.

Which brings me to the music.

It seems to me that we go through phases. When we discover milonga, we like
the fast stuff. We run. We have fun. It is not controlled and it is mostly
not pretty - arms elbows and shoulders flailing all over the place.

But while doing this years back, I was still in the "afraid of it" or at
least frustrated by it phase.

It wasn't until I fell in love with the "SLOW" milongas that things really
clicked (in my particular inclinations, I much prefer slow milongas and fast
vals).

(Even if I'm dancing and the dj plays a fast-fast milonga, I hear and go for
the slower feel of the off-beat, as it were). Small steps. Tight embrace.
Glued and syncopated.

If you are not happy with your milonga yet, get some of this music, put it
on at home, and just walk/feel the rhythm and syncopation. Don't get excited
(a reason why everyone runs). Just let the sexiness infuse you gently. Be
relaxed - that's the key. Find the subtleties and nuances. Make SMALL
movements. Be contained. Just as with learning to follow, you grow in the
micro.



CANARO! Milonga Criolla(!), Milonga Brava, Silueta Porteña, Milonga Del
900, Milongueando. (His faster ones you will love all the more after a
period with these).

DONATO! Ella Es Así, De Punta A Punta, Secale Punta.

D'ARIENZO 1935-38 De Pura Cepa (!), La Puñalada, Silueta Porteña

If you live with this music for a while, all the other milongas will sound
different and reveal more complexity and possibilities (than just running).

Small, soft, subtle is beautiful. Make your milonga 15% of what it is now in
terms of speed and space. Explore syncopation (and traspie). Move all your
body, but in small, elegant ways.

The most fun I have had is on a too-crowded dance floor with NO room and the
incredible dancer Isabelle (de Montréal) in my arms. We had the most
beautiful milonga just on the spot. I suggest Milonga is not about fast and
large - even though it seems to want to pull you that way.

After you have contained your excitement for a while, you will find you can
be just as excited - more so - but not running into people, etc. Milonga is
inside you - not "out there" with your shoulders, elbows, arms and legs gone
wild.

Please excuse the soapbox. (Here am I getting all excited while asking you
not to). Milonga is something VERY special. It is worth enduring the pain
and suffering to get it. Need I say - these Argentinos knew what they were
doing when they came up with this stuff. If you love tango, you know what I
mean.

Find a model. I think that's the key. Look for a teacher who isn't just
doing tango steps to milonga music.

I will say in observation that (blessed as I am and out of my mind in
happiness with the women of Montreal who put up with me) the women who dance
good salsa know more how to let their body relax but do things that really
make milonga work.

There is nothing more sexy than a good milonga walk with all body parts
(subtlety) in motion.


Hey Rick - if they play more than one milonga tanda a night, I hope you will
relax and let us have the fun the gods meant for everyone. You play only one
tanda all night and we'll want to have you removed from the lectern.
Sentence: a milonga tutorial with a partner to die for.

Just as with vals, I play a milonga tanda every hour. It's not only fair,
it's necessary. (I do go light on milongas and heavy on Vals early in the
evening because it seems like common sense as people arrive. Late at night I
again favor slower milongas when people don't have as much energy. Ramirez
is good here. Canaro!).

To quote William Blake: "Enough! Or, too much!" I know. Beg your pardon.

Keith

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 21:01:58 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Regarding Milonga

Keith Elshaw wrote:

"I will say in observation that (blessed as I am and out of my mind in
happiness with the women of Montreal who put up with me) the women who dance
good salsa know more how to let their body relax but do things that really
make milonga work."

Right on.
The latin roots of tango are the most obvious in milonga. Without my salsa
dancing partner I would still be walking around stiff as a pole to milonga.
The swinging/waivy feel it has can be delivered only with entire body - the
hips, the shoulders, the belly.

dAgostino/Vargas - "Senores, Yo Soy Del Centro". Thanks for this one, Keith.

One milonga set per hour is not enough, in my opinion. I play two milongas
after every six-eight tango/valses. Two! Three milongas in a row is a
stretch and four in a row is definitely one too many.


Cheers, Oleh K.

https://www.tangospring.com

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:16:01 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG>
Subject: Re: Regarding Milonga

Keith said:

>We all know milonga is difficult. In fact, scary to many women (because the
>men get wild) and daunting to many men.
>...
>If you are not happy with your milonga yet, get some of this music, put it
>on at home, and just walk/feel the rhythm and syncopation. Don't get excited
>(a reason why everyone runs). Just let the sexiness infuse you gently. Be
>relaxed - that's the key. Find the subtleties and nuances. Make SMALL
>movements. Be contained. Just as with learning to follow, you grow in the
>micro.
>...
>Small, soft, subtle is beautiful. Make your milonga 15% of what it is now in
>terms of speed and space. Explore syncopation (and traspie). Move all your
>body, but in small, elegant ways.
>...
>There is nothing more sexy than a good milonga walk with all body parts
>(subtlety) in motion.

Sorry to disagree.

Based on my experience of 7 years of teaching, milonga is far easier
for a new beginner than tango, just as doing merengue is far easier
than salsa.

What could be simpler? step-step-step-step.

A brand new beginner can easily hear and walk on the milonga beat
using nothing but walking and together-steps. In fact, the milonga
beat goes so fast that most newcomers can find the beat a whole lot
easier than Di Sarli. Give them these walking steps, and they can
enter into a fairly crowded dance floor and do milonga without
colliding with anybody.

Obviously, I'm talking about doing a SIMPLE milonga.

To do Milonga WELL requires a lot of subtlety. It isn't in the
walking beat, rather the way the other beats mix and are expressed in
the body, as Keith and Oleh have said.

I also agree with Keith that doing too much vocabulary gets in the
way of a good milonga.


--

Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org/
stermitz@tango.org
303-388-2560

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 16:04:36 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Regarding Milonga

I agree with Tom that nothing is easier to teach beginners than
milonga--if you keep it simple and rhythmic. Unfortunately, much of the
instruction I have seen for milonga doesn't keep it simple or rhythmic.
Personally, I had a great deal of difficulty dancing milonga until I took
a few lessons from an old Argentine who taught very simple movements, and
I watched some young porten~os actually dance milonga when I was behind
them at a milonga. When I copied what they were doing, suddenly I found I
could dance milonga.

--Steve

Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:56:14 -0800
From: Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Regarding Milonga

Hi Keith,
Now if there was just some way for the DJ to telegraph what the next Tanda is, I could go get a beer or something. ;o)
.
What happens now is, I get a good partner I love to dance with & then the music speeds up. I personally just don't enjoy the tempo, moving that much. Same reason I love to do Night Club 2 Step & dislike doing Salsa. They are both triple step, triple step dances & the moves you can do it one, you can do in the other. Salsa is much much more up-tempo. You can also dance Tango to NightClub2, but that's another thread. No sense starting Doomsday III this late into the year...


New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 22:31:35 +0100
From: Andy <andy.ungureanu@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Re: Regarding Milonga

Rick FromPortland wrote:

>Hi Keith,
>Now if there was just some way for the DJ to telegraph what the next Tanda is, I could go get a beer or something. ;o)
>
>
>

Hi Rick,

if your DJ plays tandas, you don't need a telegraph, you can hear it.
The sense of tanda is to know what comes next. If you hear the beginnig
of a milonga you can be sure he will play at least three of them, this
should be enough to get the beer. If he is not predictable, or plays
only two of them, he is not playing tandas.
Other dancers just ask, 'what is the next tanda?' and make their
dispositions accordingly.
If you are in my milonga in Heidelberg, you know about 1 hour in
advance when the next milonga comes, because I allways play TTCVCTTCMC
(*T*ango,*C*ortina,*V*als,*M*ilonga), each has allways 4 songs. But you
will not enjoy it, because I never play non-tango stuff, and max. 15 %
recorded after 1950 :)

Andy

Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:03:15 -0800
From: Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Regarding Milonga

Andy writes:

> because I never play non-tango stuff, and max. 15 % recorded after 1950 :)

Hi Andy,
Say it isn't so ! ;o).
.
No worries, I'm still holding out hope that someone is going to restore the missing sound, someday soon, so we'll all be dancing music that is comparable to the quality of Color Tango. Heard some late Troilo recently that rocks & Frederico someone-or-the-other too that was awesome...
.
Thanks again for the heads-up.
Take care & have a Happy Christmas!
Bugs



New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing