2699 salon - milonguero
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 08:20:54 EDT
From: TimmyTango@AOL.COM
Subject: salon - milonguero
Personally I feel people dance milonguero (Apilado), because they can.
Learning Close Embrace can be harder to learn at the beginning, but once you
understand how it works, it becomes easier. I feel your lead becomes
unmistakable to read. There is no possible way you can lead Traspie without the Close
Embrace. Your partner must feel every tiny change you make, and you can't feel
this through your arms.
I dance both styles well, but I prefer to dance Milonguero.
To me it's the difference between dancing milonguero and Salon is like the
difference between looking at food and tasting it.
It's the difference of a kiss on the cheek and a French Kiss. It's making
sure my partner is satisfied, not the people sitting around the dance floor, or
my own ego. In Milonguero I feel every heart beat of my partner, and I hear
every deep breath she takes. And that moves me.
In BsAs it seems the people pick a milonga to go to because the floor will be
crowded. Dancing Close Embrace on a vacant dance floor can be a little boring
to me, but the true test of a good dancer is put them on a crowded dance
floor and see how they do. Not knowing where you can step next, or how your're
going to get there is the next piece of the puzzle. Many times I have heard
stories of people who felt confident they were good dancers, going to BsAs and
having to come home to learn how to be Humble.
With age creeping up on you, your body will soon tell you Salon is getting
harder to perform, where as with Milonguero, you only get better with age.
Thinking back, which style made tango famous like it is? Was it the style of tango
where millions of people were dancing socially on Saturday night. . . or the
few dancing who performed it on stage? ? ? ?
Either way, it's good to learn and practice both styles, even though one is
truly your favorite. When traveling to other cities, you can adjust your style
to fit in with the locals. After all Knowledge is Power.
thanks for listening
See all of you at our Snow Ball in March 2005 with
Robert Hauk
Alicia Pons
Robin Thomas
Jennifer Bratt
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 00:50:17 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Salon - Milonguero - Dancing hall
Oleh wrote in his "blog" : "An article by Susana Miller translated by Sergio
Vandekier and me (I have corrected couple mistranslations):"
Then he proceeded to copy my translation of that note substituting the word
salon with Milonguero or Dancing Hall and giving another more detailed
explanation of the word "apilarse".
In Argentina people call " Tango de Salon" the one done socially. It can be
done in a dancing hall, in a neighborhood club, in a private home, in a
square, in a park and in many other places.
So " tango de salon" includes any style of tango done socially in any place,
not only in Dancing Halls.
Susana Miller uses in her article the term "Tango Milonguero" in reference
to social tango vs. stage tango. This is the terminology that she uses and
it would generally be understood in Argentina as social tango or tango de
salon. the term "milonguero" is somewhat unspecific since it means many
things.
Tango Milonguero in the USA refers to a specific style of tango, the one
taught by Tete, Susana, Cacho and many others including some of the largely
unknown names provided by Oleh in another note.
So if Susana divides tango in two types, as she does in her note:
Tango danza (stage) and Milonguero, I think that by "milonguero" she refers
to social tango known among us here in the USA as "Tango de Salon" (the same
as in Argentina).
Otherwise we should say that she is using the word 'Milonguero' in reference
to any type of social dance . Should we decide that she is using that word
as Oleh seems to think to include only the style taught by her then she
would be ignoring the styles done socially by most people in Argentina and
all over the world. The style shown in pictures recently with walking on one
line, shifting the hips to do ochos etc. The style known as "Salon" and many
others.
I do not think that she was ignoring those dancers or styles, so I have to
conclude that she is using the word 'Milonguero' the way Tom seems to wish
to use it: in reference to any type of social dance done in close embrace.
I believe that my translation is correct.
I find that to the ignorance usually exhibited by Oleh, now he adds
audacity, arrogance and abuse of my patience by " copying my translation
without my permission, inserting in his blog with the title "translation
done by Sergio vandekier AND BY ME and finally correcting "certain
mistranslations".
Oleh or anyone else should feel free to do *his* own translation. :0)
Best regards, Sergio
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 00:33:43 -0600
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Salon - Milonguero - Dancing hall
Sergio, I would hate to pull the quadruple A on you (Audacity,
Arrogance and in particular the Abominable Abuse of your patience). It
would be unacceptably wrong and entirely out of order. In the spirit
of brotherly cooperation, recognizing the error of my ways and because
you frightened me by this mysterious sign: :0) I have removed the
claim of authorship of any kind from that translation except for the
disclaimer of correcting some mistranslations. See, it's that simple.
As to the interpretation of Susana's meaning of word milonguero, I
think we shouldn't claim mind reading abilities and let the reader to
do the interpretation leaving the word as it is. After all Susana
could have used the word salon instead as she did later on in the text
where appropriate.
Dance hall indeed could be limiting translation of the word salon.
That's why in one case I have translated this word as social (here: El
salón a su vez necesita al tango danza para difundirse... - On the
other hand social tango needs stage tango to spread...).
Interestingly if we take social as more appropriate translation of the
word salon as you seem to suggest, than so called "salon style"
becomes simply social dancing of tango as opposed to show and as such
indeed can encompass virtually everything as long as you do it
socially (open frame, milonguero, canjengue, nuevo or whatever other
term and style one can come up with). Curiously it also follows then
that there is no specific "salon" style. Paradox yet true. And when
you say that people dance tango de salon at Buenos Aires milongas you
are absolutely right, people indeed dance social tango when they dance
social tango. See, mutually agreeable consensus is reached once more.
If we agree that people dance social tango when they dance social
tango (tango de salon) one might begin to wonder if there are some
more descriptive styles within this social tango. We seem to agree
that milonguero style is tango de salon, one of social styles known,
in fact predominant in Buenos Aires. Open frame style (clumsy name, I
know, but there is no other to my knowledge) is another tango de salon
style danced socially mostly outside of Buenos AIres. Nuevo style is
also tango de salon, danced socially. I have seen a couple dancing
Canyengue to milonga in Buenos Aires once, which makes it another
tango de salon, social tango style. Any other currently in use?
By the way I am glad that I have been able to enlighten you about some
other instructors of tango milonguero who teach in Buenos Aires in
spite of my unfortunate relentless ignorance and your alledgedly
encyclopedic knowledge of social tango scene in the city. Another
small goal in life has been accomplished.
Cheers, Oleh Kovalchuke
https://TangoSpring.com
On 8/11/05, Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Oleh wrote in his "blog" : "An article by Susana Miller translated by Sergio
> Vandekier and me (I have corrected couple mistranslations):"
>
> Then he proceeded to copy my translation of that note substituting the word
> salon with Milonguero or Dancing Hall and giving another more detailed
> explanation of the word "apilarse".
>
>
> In Argentina people call " Tango de Salon" the one done socially. It can be
> done in a dancing hall, in a neighborhood club, in a private home, in a
> square, in a park and in many other places.
>
> So " tango de salon" includes any style of tango done socially in any place,
> not only in Dancing Halls.
>
> Susana Miller uses in her article the term "Tango Milonguero" in reference
> to social tango vs. stage tango. This is the terminology that she uses and
> it would generally be understood in Argentina as social tango or tango de
> salon. the term "milonguero" is somewhat unspecific since it means many
> things.
>
> Tango Milonguero in the USA refers to a specific style of tango, the one
> taught by Tete, Susana, Cacho and many others including some of the largely
> unknown names provided by Oleh in another note.
>
> So if Susana divides tango in two types, as she does in her note:
>
> Tango danza (stage) and Milonguero, I think that by "milonguero" she refers
> to social tango known among us here in the USA as "Tango de Salon" (the same
> as in Argentina).
>
> Otherwise we should say that she is using the word 'Milonguero' in reference
> to any type of social dance . Should we decide that she is using that word
> as Oleh seems to think to include only the style taught by her then she
> would be ignoring the styles done socially by most people in Argentina and
> all over the world. The style shown in pictures recently with walking on one
> line, shifting the hips to do ochos etc. The style known as "Salon" and many
> others.
>
> I do not think that she was ignoring those dancers or styles, so I have to
> conclude that she is using the word 'Milonguero' the way Tom seems to wish
> to use it: in reference to any type of social dance done in close embrace.
>
> I believe that my translation is correct.
>
> I find that to the ignorance usually exhibited by Oleh, now he adds
> audacity, arrogance and abuse of my patience by " copying my translation
> without my permission, inserting in his blog with the title "translation
> done by Sergio vandekier AND BY ME and finally correcting "certain
> mistranslations".
>
> Oleh or anyone else should feel free to do *his* own translation. :0)
>
> Best regards, Sergio
>
>
.
>
--
Oleh Kovalchuke
https://TangoSpring.com
