3650  Seduction and Imposition

Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:34:24 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Seduction and Imposition

Hyla describes very vividly her experience with some individual leaders.
I think that it is good that she stimulates the discussion of this subject.

A problem that should not exist if the milonga codes were to be followed.

People, or most people in Argentina go to the milonga not to socialize, not
to drink, not to pick up women, but to dance, just to dance tango. The
transient relationship between a man and a woman is one of mutual respect.

The woman and the man surrender to each other because they know beforehand
that as soon as the music stops everything returns to normal, there are no
consequences of that moment of intimacy. This certainty allows the
experience to be repeated again and again.

Everybody likes dancing with certain partners and they do it every week. In
order to be able to do so both, the man and the woman must be perceived as
being unattached.

If a man has an interest in a special lady he will take advantage of the
brief moments between tangos to propose a secret meeting some place else,
later in the night or on another day.

He will leave the milonga alone as he came and she will do the same to meet
for a cup of coffee in some confiteria nearby. Acceptance on the part of the
woman means that at the very least she is interested as well.

This preserves the intimacy of their personal lives and allows them to
continue dancing with the several partners of their choice.

Now I imagine that if a man plays some of the numbers described by Hyla on
an Argentine woman she will stop dancing and say something such as " excuse
me, but I got a sudden spell of nausea, I am afraid I could vomit on your
shirt, so I better go and sit down".

She will tell all her friends what happened and nobody will dance with that
character again.
He will have to leave the milonga.

Summary: If the things Hyla describes happen is because women tolerate them.

No man or woman should dance with people that they do not like
in a way they do not want.

Free your milongas of elements that are no tango. If you want to "franelear"
(rub against each other) go someplace else and spare your friends of such a
sad show and lack of respect.

Best regards, Sergio.

Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 14:50:57 -0700
From: Michael at Tango Bellingham <michaele@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Re: Seduction and Imposition

So the mating ritual doesn't go on at the milongas in Buenos Aires? Not
having been yet (I know, I know, mea maxima culpa, I'm saving my pennies
to go!), I am asking for information, not challenging you.

I remember reading Christine Denniston's article about dancing in the
'40s (https://www.history-of-tango.com/learn-to-dance.html), that the
serious *dancing* went on at the practicas, whereas to milongas were
places to socialize with your friends and meet women. Has that all
disappeared?

Thanks,
Michael
Tango Bellingham
www.tangobellingham.com

Sergio Vandekier wrote:

> People, or most people in Argentina go to the milonga not to socialize, not
> to drink, not to pick up women, but to dance, just to dance tango. The
> transient relationship between a man and a woman is one of mutual respect.
>

Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 22:30:47 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Seduction and Imposition

Michael asks:
"So the mating ritual doesn't go on at the milongas in
Buenos Aires? Not
having been yet (I know, I know, mea maxima culpa, I'm saving my pennies
to go!), I am asking for information, not challenging you.

I remember reading Christine Denniston's article about dancing in the
'40s (https://www.history-of-tango.com/learn-to-dance.html), that the
serious *dancing* went on at the practicas, whereas to milongas were
places to socialize with your friends and meet women. Has that all
disappeared? "

I read the article that you mentioned and found the following reference:

"In the practicas there would be men who specialised in following - although
they also led in the milongas to meet women. Often men had regular dancing
partners, and there would be demonstration dances done in the milongas to a
very high standard. "

Dear Michael what Ms. Denniston says is that men learned at the practicas
dancing with other men and then they went to the milongas to "meet" women.
This does not mean that they went to socialize at the milongas what they did
was to meet women to be able to dance with them.

Socializing at the milongas is kept to the minimum necessary, greetings when
you arrive and leave, seating with friends of the same sex, little talk.

As I said before if a man wanted to date a lady he would propose a secret
meeting someplace else.

This relationship would continue to remain secret for a while till both, the
man and the woman decided that it was serious enough to make it public.

Men also had the chance to practice with the women of his family, sisters,
aunts, female friends.

Many men took advantage of Carnival to start dancing because they could wear
a mask and nobody knew who they were.

The milonga has its codes and rules. You as a man cannot show up there and
dance poorly. You have to know how to do it otherwise women will not dance
with you and you will be classified as
a "pata dura" (stiff legged) a very bad reputation that will finish with
your dancing career.

Best regards, Sergio

Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:04:02 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Seduction and Imposition

About milongas in Buenos Aires Sergio writes:

>Now I imagine that if a man plays some of the numbers described by Hyla

on

>an Argentine woman she will stop dancing and say something such as "

excuse

>me, but I got a sudden spell of nausea, I am afraid I could vomit on your
>shirt, so I better go and sit down".
>She will tell all her friends what happened and nobody will dance with

that

>character again. He will have to leave the milonga.

In a U.S. tango community, which is typically much smaller, women alerting
each other to a man's inappropriate behavior is likely to drive him from
the community altogether. I have seen it happen.

With best regards,
Steve