710 step technique
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 17:53:44 -0700
From: Suzanne Ryan <sryanalbulak@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: step technique
hi
I just received the Fabian Salas tango instructional tapes and he suggests stepping on the outside of your foot when you walk. He meant it for walking forward but I tried it (on my own--no partner) with backwards walking as well as ochos. It seemed to improve my form and balance and it looked so much better in the mirror. But I DO have a wonderful imagination...lol!
Anybody familiar with this style? Know what I am talking about? It felt really weird at first and I had to work it. I want to try it out with dance partners...I hope I don't confound them. :-)
~Suzanne
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:20:31 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: step technique
> hi
> I just received the Fabian Salas tango instructional tapes and he suggests
stepping on the outside of your foot when you walk. He meant it for walking
forward but I tried it (on my own--no partner) with backwards walking as
well as ochos. It seemed to improve my form and balance and it looked so
much better in the mirror. > Anybody familiar with this style?
Stepping on the outside of your foot ? And end up bowlegged ? For all I
know, the elegant walker steps in the inner edge of the foot, or the ball of
the foot.
I do not get this.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:40:55 -0700
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Step technique
Tango walk
When the tango dancer walks forwards he bends his knees, the heels brush and
then he extends his foot.
There is an external rotation of the foot (anywhere from 10 to 30 degrees,
some dancers like Portalea will rotate more). The foot lands on its toes.
There is some degree of adduction of the foot. Adduction means that the
plantar area of the foot faces the center.
The result is that one lands on its toes and the outside of the foot.
When the tango dancer walks backwards on the other hand he lands on the
inner aspect of the foot.
The heels brush, the knees are bent at this point, then one extends the leg
backwards and lands on the big toe and the inner aspect of the foot. The
heel points to the center.
*I reproduce here a note I wrote long ago about "Tango Walk".
The Tango Walk in Salon Style as taught by most instructors is as follows:
Arrugue (wrinkle) in place, this means that you bend your knees.
You select a line on the floor and you place every step on that line as you
walk.
As you step forward your chest is forward, this means that your nipples and
your knees are on the same frontal plane.
There is an external rotation of your feet, your toes are pointing out.
Anywhere from 10 to 45 degrees. This is done to
improve your equilibrium. Some dancers will not use external rotation, they
have a very elegant walk but balance is more difficult. Ex. the late Jose
Vazquez, Lampazo.
The foot is extended (toes down), it lands on its toes not on the heel as it
is done in ball room dancing. In Argentine Tango as you are seen coming you
do not show the soles of your shoes. This way of walking represents the way
the compadritos used to walk in the street, it has deep historical, cultural
and stylistical roots. Some people choose to land on their heels, they
mostly come from ballroom dancing. They look foreign and not totally
authentic although some of them could be elegant dancers. The walk toe heel
should be practiced with special attention to the turns where it is very
easy to land on the heel.
The heels brush as the feet pass each other during the walk.
The feet caress the floor, they are not lifted for any reason during the
walk unless some flicks are to be done such as a boleo.
The foot caresses the floor but it does not slide on the floor. In order to
achieve a "cat-like" it is very important to bend the knees to walk, at the
time of landing the leg is extended, the back leg can give an extra push if
so desired in order to lengthen the stride.
Summary of forward tango walk: Legs bent, heels are brushed together,
forward position of the chest, foot extended, external rotation (toes out),
landing on the toes.
Back Walking:
Arrugue(wrinkle) meaning bend your knees.
Extend the leg backwards as you keep your chest where it is.
Walk on a line.
External rotation of the foot for elegance and better equilibrium.
Land on your toes.
Transfer your body over the leg that is stepping back.
Brush your heels as you walk.
Runs: there are many types of runs but in reference to the walk during a run
(corrida) the stylistic elements are the same as in the regular walk. A
simple run forward would be, walking forward step,
slow-slow-quick-quick-quick, repeat following the beat.
Milonguero Style:
The walk changes drastically.
Less knee bent.
Walk flat footed as in all the other Latin dances.
External rotation of the foot is not important.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:33:46 +0200
From: "Hélène Eckert" <Helene.Eckert@ITU.INT>
Subject: Re: Step technique
Re: message about stepping technique, saying, among other things:
" Some people choose to land
> on their heels, they
> mostly come from ballroom dancing. They look
> foreign and not totally
> authentic although some of them could be elegant
> dancers."
What would you about Metin Yazir dancing ? IMHO, he is
incredibly elegant and DOES walk heel first !!!! Have a look at the way
male dancers walk in the film "tango lesson": they are great Argentinian
dancers and they DO walk heel first !!!!
Hélène (Geneva)
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:40:27 -0400
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Step technique
This is great information.
One question:
> There is some degree of adduction of the foot. Adduction means that
> the plantar area of the foot faces the center.
What is the plantar area of the foot?
Lois Donnay
Minneapolis
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:21:47 -0400
From: Jack Karako <JKarako@AOL.COM>
Subject: Step technique
The logic is quite simple. Why would you want to change the way you naturally walk?
Most people naturally walk heel first. Because it is easy, natural, balanced. If compadritos, ballerinas or anyone else walk differently, it makes sense for them to dance the way they walk.
So next time you want to know how you should dance, look at your own feet when you walk. That's how you should dance.
That's why Metin says anyone who can walk can dance tango.
Jak
www.BailaTango.com
"Hilhne Eckert" <Helene.Eckert@ITU.INT> writes:
> Re: message about stepping technique, saying, among other things:
> " Some people choose to land
> > on their heels, they
> > mostly come from ballroom dancing. They look
> > foreign and not totally
> > authentic although some of them could be elegant
> > dancers."
>
> What would you about Metin Yazir dancing ? IMHO, he is
>incredibly elegant and DOES walk heel first !!!! Have a look at the way
>male dancers walk in the film "tango lesson": they are great Argentinian
>dancers and they DO walk heel first !!!!
>Hilhne (Geneva)
>
>
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:16:18 -0700
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Step technique
Could it be that when people can not or do not want to do the proper tango
walk they try to adapt the walk to their own means and perhaps promote their
way of walking to others?
Bruno
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:26:09 +0100
From: John Ward <jmward@BUN.COM>
Subject: Step technique (heel leads)
When I had tango lessons in Helsinki I was told that the tango is a Finnish
folk dance and the tango walk is based on skiing, and naturally one cannot
take heel leads when wearing skis.
John
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 15:50:13 -0400
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Step technique
> The logic is quite simple. Why would you want to change the way you
naturally walk?
> Most people naturally walk heel first. Because it is easy, natural,
balanced. If compadritos, ballerinas or anyone else walk differently, it
makes sense for them to dance the way they walk.
It's true that one should not walk un-naturally. Best work with what one has
than to force some difficult and awkward movement. People do tend to dance
as they naturally move.
> So next time you want to know how you should dance, look at your own feet
when you walk. That's how you should dance.
I have a small issue with the above statement. There are lots of folks who
do not walk in a way that helps them to dance tango. For instance, I've
noticed many women (and men) who will step with their toes turned in. For
the women is is a terrible habit as the next step is naturally in line with
the supporting foot. This is why so many women will unconsciously walk
toward the center of the room. It is an inexorable result of the position of
the feet on the floor at each step.
I totally agree that one should look at one's feet when one walks, but not
necessarily dance that way! There are many other examples of defects of
walking that really get in the way of dancing tango reasonably well. I've
found that one of the most important things I can teach any student is how
to walk well (at least for tango). I think it is very interesting that the
better a person dances tango, the more elegant they look when they normally
walk and move. The reverse is also very likely, the more elegantly a person
moves in their day to day life, the more likely they are to become good
tango dancers if they so choose.
Yes, I agree that one should move naturally and without undue effort, but I
definitely think that many people's "natural" movements can be quite
ungainly and awkward. Tango dancing requires at least a fairly decent
posture and a graceful fashion of moving. These can be developed by almost
anyone but they are not natural to all.
Respectfully,
Manuel
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 21:13:56 -0700
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Step Technique II
We all know by now that there is nothing dogmatic about tango or about my
own opinion. It is nice to read about different perspectives.
Departing from the premise that anybody may walk the way he prefers...
...I said "The Tango Walk in Salon Style as taught by most instructors
is as follows:"
There are two qualifiers in that assertion: salon style and most
instructors.
This means that I am conscious that:
1- the walk is different in Milonguero style.
2- some instructors teach a different technique.
I also said : "Some people choose to land on their heels, they
mostly come from ballroom dancing. They look foreign and not totally
authentic although some of them could be elegant dancers."
I know a great number of Argentinean instructors. Some of them very well,
including the dancers at "The Tango Lesson" movie. I never heard anyone to
say that you have to land "heel first" when dancing salon style. I do not
know many non-Argentinean teachers but out of the few I know at least two
teach "heel first" technique.
I do know Metin Yazir, I agree he is a very elegant dancer and effective
instructor.
As to the Movie "The Tango Lesson" ma chhre Madame, the well known tango
dancers you speak about are Pablo Veron, Fabian Salas, Gustavo Naveira,
Carlos Copello, Omar Vega. One may see some general public dancing, some
ladies of tango, such as Olga Besio and Alicia Montti .
Most of the dancing is done by Pablo Veron and Sally Potter. The feet are
seen not very frequently as the camera takes the upper bodies and face
expressions. When the feet are seen, the dancers land on their toes more
than 95 % of the time.
P.Veron will step heel first when walking straight forward occasionally. He
also steps on his heels during the first and second lessons. Here he wears
sneakers, walks with his feet apart... He is only making the student feel
the lead for the walk he is not teaching the whole technique of tango
walking. Some of the scenes are about Milonguero Style such as the one at
"La Ideal" where they are dancing to "El Flete" de Juan D'Arienzo.
There is a scene where people are dancing in ?London to "La Cumparsita"
(American-European Beat) people dancing are from ballroom, they move with a
modified European choreography.
In Summary: IMO most tango instructors, salon style, teach to walk the way
I
described it.
Milonguero Style has a different walk.
There are other ways to walk in tango, this is fine. Some are very elegant
as well.
The good part, *you may dance the way you wish*. Have fun doing it! :).
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:52:39 -0700
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Step technique
Learning to dance Tango is a difficult endeavor or process which demands
acquiring skills that are not natural. This can be overly frustrating for
tango students specially those outside Argentina and Uruguay. Marketing of
Tango instruction outside Argentina has lead to teaching adapted versions of
Tango that bring quick gratification and sense of accomplishment to tango
students. One can say is easy to dance tango but is hard to dance tango
well.
Bruno
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:43:20 -0700
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Step technique
This discussion brings back memories from a past workshop which took place
over two years ago when one tango master went to teach Tango in Vancouver
for the first time. This tango master usually spends 30 minutes or more with
exercises which are based heavily on the tango walk and posture. When the
tango master proceeded in instructing basic figures the students present
accustomed to other type of instruction notice big differences in the tango
master's style and became defensive. They said their Tango was much
different and the tango master responded that the only tango he knew was the
one danced in Buenos Aires,Argentina. When the tango master saw that the
dance level of students was not adequate to introduce more figures he
decided to go for a break to smoke. The host accustomed to other type of
instruction went to the Tango master and told him he should be teaching more
figures and the tango master obliged.
Bruno
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:36:28 -0400
From: Randy Pittman <tango22@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: Step technique
>"Some people choose to land on their heels, they mostly come from ballroom dancing. They look foreign and not totally authentic although =
some of them could be elegant dancers."<
Ballroom dancers do not walk only with heels leads. They have a special technique, for the purpose of rise and fall in the smooth dances of =
Foxtrot and Waltz. The first step starts on the heel, then to the toe of the left foot. The right foot steps onto the toe only creating a =
rising action. The left foot steps with the toe first lowering to the heel to finish the rise and fall action. The process is then repeated =
starting on the right foot and continues alternating throughout the dance.
In the Latin family of dancing the foot technique is different. It is called a "ball flat" foot action. whether you step on the inside of =
outside part of the foot, depends on your turn in or turn out, as most would understand from the ballet world of foot positions. If your feet =
are turned in you would step inside toe edge to a flat foot. If you are using a turned out foot position you would use the outside edge of the =
toe to a flat foot.
In my 10 years of Argentine Tango, I've not come across any professionals from Argentina that teaches with a heel lead. =
Unfortunately just like parents, do as I say and not as I do. When you review teaching tapes or show videos, sometimes the top professionals of =
AT use heel leads.
Nobody is perfect.
Tango Forever
Randy
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:15:28 +0200
From: CLIMENTI Dominique <cli@UBP.CH>
Subject: Re: Step technique
I think Suzanne do not imagine, she will bring up a so discussed point
when she write yesterday... :-)
I will add my own comment to the discussion.
I think some points are missing in this tread. IHMO most dancer,
including some teacher also, have a poor opinion of their feet, I think
some peoples think as their feet like the "tip of a stake". Feet are one
of the most sophisticated parts of the human body. They have subtle
articulation all over their entire length, muscles, three arches (More
than in the head of work of the gothic cathedrals :-) ) to sustain the
weight of the whole body. It's really a quite complex thing from the
anatomical point of view. And it's dynamic! It's not only the tip of a
stake... We have to use all this possibilities in the dance and for that
we have to use all the surface of the feet from the tip of the toes to
the back of the heels (and from left to right also) we have to use all
the small muscles we have there and all the small articulations to be
able to make the dance more dynamic and expressive.
Another interesting point that has not been discussed until yet in this
tread is that I've eared a lot of dancer (especially women) who complain
about hallux valgus. One of the causes of that is the fact to step with
the front of the feet and not use the arches to distribute the weight to
the whole foot. So I ask just a question why trying to step with the
front of the foot if we know that's bad for our feet? We have to take
care of it. Especially if we want to dance a lot and for a long time.
:-)
Take care of your feet... :-)
Dominique from Geneva
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:18:24 -0400
From: Georgia Littleton <glit10go@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Step technique
>From: CLIMENTI Dominique <cli@UBP.CH>
>Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Step technique
>Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:15:28 +0200
>
>So I ask just a question why trying to step with the
>front of the foot if we know that's bad for our feet?
The reason why you might do that is stylistic and the question under
discussion applies more to men than women. It pertains to presentation of
the foot rather than where on your foot you pass your weight. There is no
risk of strain like the scenario Climenti is describing.
It's possible to "conform" your foot to the floor toe first, but
nevertheless pass your weight more or less (even totally) onto the heel.
This is what happens in the compradito style of walking. Even though they
present their toes first, they aren't dancing on their toes. They aren't
actually passing their weight directly onto the balls of their feet. If you
were to do that, you would actually be rising, as Randy described so well in
the case of the rise and fall technique for other smooth dances.
Incidentally, if you rise, but never fall... then you are dancing the way
many women dance tango! Women step back most of the time, and many like to
keep their heels off the floor. This is one stylistic choice. If you dance
predominantly with your heels up, then you run the risk of strain in the
arch, as described by Climenti. This is another worthwhile thread of
discussion, but unrelated to the stylistic question of men's forward walks
employing a toe first presentation of the foot.
That's what Georgia says.
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 07:12:48 -0700
From: Jai Jeffryes <doktordogg@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Step Technique II
--- Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET> wrote:
> Milonguero Style has a different walk.
> There are other ways to walk in tango, this is fine.
> Some are very elegant
> as well.
Sergio,
I would enjoy hearing more particulars about the
milonguero style of walking, if you care to talk about
that.
Jai
=====
Usenet on Google, the Internet's home for easy and totally free discussion:
https://groups.google.com
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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 09:58:32 -0700
From: Elemer Dubrovay <dubrovay@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Fw: Re: [TANGO-L] Step technique
Hi.
Bruno has a good explanation of the difference between the way tango is
danced in this country and Argentina.
In Argentina the tango is danced following the music and the emotions
that it brings; the way of standing, the embrace, the leading, the
feeling, if you know five figures that is more than enough.
In USA the thing is figures.
Not important are:
Following the music.
The embrace.
La pinta de bailarin, (the way somebody looks dancing).
Leading well.
Moving the hips from one side to the other, like salsa dancing.
Walking like delivering bricks to a construction site.
One of these days I am going to hear this conversation:
How many figures can you do? I can do 9. And the other guy says I can
do 12 so I am better dancer than you are.
Elemer in Redmond
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 22:09:10 -0700
From: Elemer Dubrovay <dubrovay@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [TANGO-L] Step technique
On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 12:40:55 +0900 "astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
writes:
> > Moving the hips from one side to the other, like salsa dancing.
> > Walking like delivering bricks to a construction site.
>
> but what on earth are you talking about here ?
I am sorry that it was confusing, what I had in mind was that some guys
after years of dancing tango regularly, think they are great dancers and
keep doing this things.
Elemer in Redmond
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 11:35:58 -0700
From: Andrew Allison <Andrew@AALLISON.COM>
Subject: Step technique
Elemer writes:
"In USA the thing is figures . . . ."
In my experience, this is not true of the majority of dancers -- except in
the case of Tango-Neuvo practitioners who, at least in the SF Bay area,
display total disregard for anything but their figures, no matter how
gracelessly executed. They're so engrossed in flying around the floor doing
figures which are more suitable for the stage than the salon that just a
handful of them can disrupt the "flow" of a milonga. A milonga is a social
event not a performance venue (neither, for those leaders who feel
compelled to give lessons to everybody with whom they dance, is it an
appropriate place to teach). As with any social activity, awareness of
what's going on around you is more important than demonstrating your prowess.
Andrew
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:39:47 -0400
From: Manuel Patino <manuel@TANGO-RIO.COM>
Subject: Re: Step technique
At Monday, 2 September 2002, Andrew Allison <Andrew@AALLISON.COM> wrote:
>In my experience, this is not true of the majority of dancers -
- except in
>the case of Tango-Neuvo practitioners
I've seen dancers like that, but I would not call them "Tango-Nuevo"
practicioners. It would seem more appropriate to call them poor dancers.
Just because somebody can perform a number of intricate maneuvers
such as enrosques and jumps, it does not mean that he can dance tango
very well at all. I've seen guys who do various firuletes but cannot
dance to the music!!
I think it's innapropriate to paste a label of "Tango-Nuevo" or "apilado"
on any person or group who dances poorly (in our estimation). I think
it would be more useful to identify and criticize the particular
errors or faults of the perpetrators rather than tarring and entire
style of fashion of dance with the label of disconsiderate, aggressive,
innapropriate, etc.
Manuel
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 23:03:21 -0700
From: Elemer Dubrovay <dubrovay@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Step technique
On Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:39:47 -0400 Manuel Patino <manuel@TANGO-RIO.COM>
writes:
> At Monday, 2 September 2002, Andrew Allison <Andrew@AALLISON.COM>
> wrote:
>
I've seen dancers like that, but I would not call them "Tango-Nuevo"
practicioners. It would seem more appropriate to call them poor dancers.
***
I have seen the"Tango-Nuevo" teachers from Argentina and the local
dancers dance this tango and maybe somebody can explain me how it can be
danced in a crowded or half crowded milonga without been a nuisance to
the rest of the dancers.
The worst part is the 3 or 4 fast back-steps that this dancers use.
Elemer in Redmond
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 09:49:48 +0200
From: Håkan Petersson <hakan.petersson@IMT.LIU.SE>
Subject: Re: Step technique
> There is an external rotation of the foot (anywhere from 10 to 30 degrees,
> some dancers like Portalea will rotate more). The foot lands on its toes.
I’ve never thought of this detail before and became a bit curious about the
external rotation. With as much as 45 degrees rotation--do you rotate back
in the transfer of the weight or is the idea to actually walk with toes
apart? Two feet with a 45-degree rotation each make 90 degrees...
With best regards,
Hakan
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 21:13:44 -0700
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Step technique III - Beginners only
> There is an external rotation of the foot (anywhere from 10 to 30 degrees,
> some dancers like Portalea will rotate more). The foot lands on its toes.
Hakan Petersson asks if one returns to the center line after weight
transfer.
One walks with an external rotation of the foot which persists at all levels
of the tango walk.
This rotation allows a better equilibrium. Since tango has as characteristic
a very narrow base for walking this external rotation increases this base
somewhat and anchors the dancer to the floor.(both feet are turned out).
During a turn to the left for instance, you could do a curl and a stop. The
position at the stop shows that the thighs and knees are close together. The
left foot in front stopping the ladies feet has an external rotation the
same as the right one at the back.
The thighs are one the same frontal plane. If you look at the man standing
in this position his legs below the knees draw a triangle. The sides of
this triangle are both legs and the floor.
This tango walk should be practiced by yourselves as frequently as possible.
Remember to keep your head up.
When walking with your partner in dancing position, walk in front of her in
parallel fashion. Your left foot moves forward as her right one moves
backwards. Your foot lands close to her left one. When your right foot moves
forward it lands by her left one. A common mistake here is to walk in front
with your right foot but walk outside to her right side with your left, as
if trying to avoid stepping on her left foot. This produces a walk with your
feet open about one foot apart. Remember your feet should be brushing heels
as you walk.
You may walk forward in front as described but also to her left or to her
right. When walking in front or to her left she never crosses but when
walking to her right (most women) will cross by default. There is nothing
wrong with this (IMO).
Tango is described as a walking dance. There are many ways to walk...
parallel, crossed, with or without syncopations, in front, or to the sides,
in combination with her doing back ochos, etc. etc.
As to the degree of external rotation it should be kept as suggested by me
between 10 and 30 degrees. An excessive external rotation IMO is not
elegant.
The least elegant way to step is with an internal rotation. This is seen in
many beginner dancers on step #3 of the base.
Some dancers choose to walk without any rotation at all. This could be very
elegant but then the equilibrium is more difficult to maintain.
Best regards.
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:53:12 -0700
From: Judy Stockinger <judytango@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: "external rotation of the foot" was "step technique"
With all due respect...it is not "external rotation of the foot", but external rotation of the leg...the leg maintains one line from thigh to toe. It gives a more elegant line, the foot looks better. I'm not sure I agree that it is about "balance", as balance is largely determined by the upper body, mainly through use of the abdominal muscles and placement of the head (the head being the heaviest part of the body).
Abrazos,
Judy
