1843 Style, space and music I
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 18:46:29 -0400
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Style, space and music I
Riccardo Fanciulli says:
"Let's say that here in the US we have mainly two styles, Milinguero (as
danced by Tete, always closed position, not too many firuletes, designed
for crowded milongas) and the Salon (as danced by Naveira, variable
embrace, figures that require more space and that would "clog" the line of
dance in a crowded milonga).
I'll tell you upfront that I like both, but have a distinctive preference
for what I just called Salon."
Finally, after several ridiculously absurd comments an intelligent post on
the subject of "Tango Styles" and the interesting subjects relating to
them.
To clarify the subject of the terminology:
USA : Gustavo Naveira, Fabian Salas, Chicho Frumboli : dance what is called
here Nuevo Tango.
Nito y Elva, Diego Y Carolina, Mingo Pugliese, the Zotto
brothers, and most of the other instructors teach and dance what we call
Salon Tango here.
Susana Miller, Cacho Dante, Tete and few others teach and dance
Milonguero.
Argentina and Europe : Two forms of dance - Social (danced at the crowded
milongas) (it would be Milonguero, an Salon adapted to the social scene).
This social way of dancing is called "Tango Salon" to confuse matters,
because it is danced in a Salon (dancing hall or club).
The other form of dancing is called Stage Tango because it is danced on
stage or during exhibitions. ( this would include Salon and Nuevo as known
in the USA).
Riccardo's experience is very common. You learn all sort of complicated and
very interesting tango steps and figures that require space that is not
available when you go dancing to a milonga.
You attempt to perform a complete figure, no way! there is no room. You
attempt a boleo or an amague or a hook, no way! there is no room.
You try to adapt to the crowded conditions but you realize that you do not
know how to dance under those conditions. You cannot even start to dance,
you seem to collide, to shift to the center, to be unable to advance...
finally you decide that the place is too crowded and go to sit down.
But to your amazement you see that there are hundreds of people there,
dancing with a lot of energy, walking, turning, doing ochos, little boleos
and sacadas, enjoying themselves following the line of dance, never
overtaking, never colliding.
Now you realize that the type of tango that you learned is not fit to be
danced on crowded floors. Most likely nobody ever told you that.
but...you can have a great time dancing that way when there is enough space.
The ideal style to dance on crowded floors is what we know in the USA as
Milonguero ( Susana, Tete, Cacho). Salon (taught by most instructors in the
USA, can be danced as well but adapting the moves to the lack of space.
I would tend to say that Nuevo tango is fit to be danced only where enough
room is available.
will continue...
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 02:14:53 -0400
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Style, space and music II
Manuel says,
"As you probably noticed Gustavo & Giselle Anne are masters of the "apilado"
style as well as any other tango style. Their performance to "Araca la cana"
by Osvaldo Fresedo should have proven that beyond all doubt. It still amazes
me to read the characterizations of Gustavo Naveira as some kind of tango
dancer who is unable to dance in the simplest style of all...... "
Two interesting aspects of this discussion are exposed in the above
paragraph.
1- The good dancer ends up learning all the necessary styles and its
variations to be able to dance under any conditions.
When there is room available, one can dance, Milonguero (apilado) or Salon
or Nuevo Tango.
When there is no room, one dances Milonguero or Salon in a compact way .
2- The fact that an instructor is famous because he teaches a determined
tango style does not mean that he is unable to dance in other styles as
well.
I wonder who characterized Gustavo Naveira as not being able to dance in a
simple way at all. This has to be a joke!. He is one of the best dancers
that I know.
As to the music we can dance using any orchestras for any style as we wish.
Actually as you well know one can dance the Tango choreography to any type
of music. What changes depending on the music is the feeling and the mood.
When it comes to Tango music it can be divided or analyzed in many ways.
For the sake of simplification I am to mention that the music before 1940
has a strong beat along with the melody, between 1940 and 1960 the music
changed, the beat decreased in favor of the melody, and after 1960 the beat
almost disappeared to allow the melody to take the center of the stage.
It is possible to follow these developments very easily listening to Juan
D'Arienzo or Anibal Troilo playing music of those periods.
We just had a great time experimenting with that kind of music during the
Cacho Dante-Robert Haulk workshop in Cleveland.
The good dancer can adjust and vary his dance to every orchestra the same as
to the woman, the mood and the available space.
Milonguero can be used to dance to any type of tango music and even non
tango music. Pugliese, Di Sarli, Tanturi, D'Arienzo, etc.
Salon can be danced to any type of music but the long steps and adornments
are better performed to slower music such as Pugliese or Di Sarli.
Nuevo Tango can also be danced to any music, but the young crowds prefer
Pugliese, Di Sarli, Piazzolla, Raul Garello, etc.
In our group we prefer Salon because we have lots of space available when in
the USA. We also dance Milonguero with great enjoyment and at times we
concentrate in Nuevo Tango. We frequently use the three main styles in one
night, start with Salon dancing to Di Sarli, Calo, Pugliese, D'Agostino then
we continue with Milonguero to the music of Fresedo, Tanturi, D'Arienzo, De
Angelis, Pugliese, Di Sarli, then some Nuevo tango To Raul Garello or Color
Tango. We also like El arranque, Biagi, Troilo, d'Agostino, Francisco
Canaro, Orquesta Victor, Edgardo Donato, Adolfo Carabelli, Pedro Laurenz,
Some Alfredo Gobbi, and Enrique Cadicamo.
When in Buenos Aires I dance Milonguero downtown and Salon in Villa Urquiza.
When in Mar del Plata Salon and Nuevo Tango as Milonguero is not danced much
there.
In summary we try to learn the three styles and adjust to the circumstances
of music, available space, the woman and the mood of the moment.
As it was said before the important thing is to dance and enjoy it. I
believe that knowledge of the different styles increases your chances of
achieving those goals.
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:04:12 -0400
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Style, space and music III
Rick very well says :
"When it boils right down to it, if you love what you're
doing, connecting with your partners, respectful of who's dancing around
you, who cares what style of Tango your dancing or what music your dancing
to..."
This is quite true but certainly it is not the subject of our discussion.
Let's see if we can concentrate in the subject we are dealing with. A
problem not encountered but many people and only seen by some.
Many dancers from areas where the floor is generally very crowded learn to
dance under those (crowded) circumstances from the very beginning, they
ignore that people that have lots of room available may be dancing in a
different way.
Many dancers from areas where the tango community is a small one or that
otherwise dispose of lots of room to dance frequently ignore what the
difficulties are if faced with a very crowded floor.
So the subject of the discussion is : Tango styles as an adaptation to the
space available to dance on. The connection, the respect for your fellow
neighbors, the joy, etc, all that is fine, it is ( or should be) omnipresent
it does not matter what the style or the space available are.
This is precisely the object of this discussion.
It is important to know how to adapt our dancing to different circumstances,
rather than to always dance the same way.
With this objective in mind is that everyone should ask his/her instructor
( at the very least) the following questions.
How do I dance to Pugliese, or Di Sarli different than I do to D'Arienzo or
to Calo.
How do I dance if the floor is very crowded...
Some instructors will organize exercises to demonstrate how to dance in
different ways to adjust to the different music and different floor
conditions.
Having said this I would like to hear what are the pros and cons of dancing
Milonguero, vs. Salon, vs. Nuevo tango.
Any ideas? :))
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:27:58 -0600
From: Brian Dunn <brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: Style, space and music III
Sergio wrote:
>>>
It is important to know how to adapt our dancing to different circumstances,
rather than to always dance the same way...Having said this I would like to
hear what are the pros and cons of dancing Milonguero, vs. Salon, vs. Nuevo
tango...Any ideas? :))
<<<
Nicely, concisely stated. We could start with different crowding conditions
and work "outward" while talking about music and styles along the way, in a
non-judgemental fashion that allows everyone their preferences. I will also
assume that everyone wants to find a balance between being considerate of
their fellow dancers (the extreme: "Sorry, we'll get off the floor!" ;) )
while still enjoying themselves and pleasing their partner as much as
possible (the extreme: "Alright, everyone else off the floor!" ;) ).
So we start with an extremely crowded floor. What stepping there is is
restricted to movements where the axis of each partner moves a very small
amount, maybe a couple centimeters, usually both in the same direction
(often called "with" motion) while shifting the axis/weight to the "next"
foot. There is not yet enough room for the frame to rotate freely, and for
the partners to exchange positions on the floor in a single step. But the
lead/follow of small, slow, smooth dramatic pivots in a close embrace is
very satisfying even in extremely tight spaces. Tiny rhythmic out-and-back
motions or "wiggles" can be done with almost no room. One or the other of
these choices can be done to any music, both smooth/slow/dramatic
(Pugliese/DiSarli/etc.) and rhythmic/energetic (D'Arienzo, Biagi). But
possibilities are very limited.
With just a little more room, partners can begin exchanging the location of
their centers or axes, where each takes the former position of the other in
a very small space. Their centers move simultaneously in different
directions (often called "contra" motion) around a shared center. Sacadas
are based on this dynamic, so that choice becomes available on a small
scale. Extreme pivoting with each step allows even complex motions in a very
tight space, and energetic, rhythmic D'Arienzo/Biagi turns are possible
without disrupting the floor. But the physical energetics of the dance can
increase by a much greater factor, and with contra motion people can free
themselves from many of the perceived restrictions of a crowded floor.
Dancers who restrict themselves to "with" motions in these crowding
conditions will have far fewer options available to them. In style terms,
contra-motion can certainly be done apilado-style, but the commonly seen
"A-Frame" of estilo milonguero will often take up more floor space in contra
motion than if partners adopt a frame with more verticality in the axis (a
cylinder rather than a cone) so each axis can move more easily past the
other. "Nuevo" elements like small colgadas can begin to make their
appearance, with or without single axis turns, especially because in
colgadas and single axis turns the feet tend to remain close to the shared
center (an "inverted cone", if not a cylinder). Volcadas are still a
problem at this point, because the feet need to project outward as the
follower's axis is tilted. This crowding level allows for tiny boleos,
experienced more as rhythmic rotational changes than as anything that
launches the foot from the floor. Leg-wraps (for those who have practiced
them well!) are possible, although there's not much room for error in
crowded conditions for inherently unstable variations.
Eventually, with a little less crowding, movements such as normal-size
boleos and ganchos become possible in the corners without disturbing the
floor. Apilado dancing with a more extreme A-frame is feasible, allowing
for more dynamically energetic contra motion in this style. Volcadas
appear, especially for changing direction in the corners of the floor.
Colgadas can take on a greater lean of the follower's axis. In nuevo terms,
the extremes of back sacadas become possible for those who require a more
open embrace to accomplish them at their current skill level.
AS the space opens up, along with all the choices mentioned above on a
larger scale, BIG STRIDES down the line-of-dance are possible (great for
waltz/DiSarli/Pugliese - followers say things like "Thank you for letting me
finally use my legs!") Adjusting the lead/follow connection of the walk to
different size strides, including sometimes really big ones, is a great
skill to master if your local floors usually have a lot of room, as we often
do here in Colorado.
Two thoughts occur to me in closing -
1) Teachers can easily prepare their students for crowding conditions
typical of their local scene, regardless of the style they prefer, by
"testing" their vocabulary in different crowding conditions during class.
This is really a question of teaching "safe tango" rather than any
particular style.
2) In our experience, the "sweet spot" to aim for in teaching is the
development of the skills of contra motion in very tight spaces. This skill
offers leaders the most choices over the widest range of crowding
conditions - they can simply adjust the degree of pivot for the space
available. To develop this skill, style adherents will need different
approaches depending on their backgrounds. Salon/nuevo-trained dancers need
to work more on the possibilities of extreme pivoting in each step, and
estilo milonguero advocates may need to explore "verticalizing" their
embrace a little in order to allow their axes to exchange locations without
unnecessarily projecting their feet outward.
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
1(303)938-0716
https://www.danceoftheheart.com
