3295 Tango Fads?
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 11:23:59 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Tango Fads?
I'd like Derik to be more specific about "us" stumbling from one tango
fad to another.
On the one hand there are as many styles as there are great teachers,
and many different teachers travel frequently.
On the other, you can assign many teachers as practitioners within a
relatively consistent, definable style or school.
So, for example, you have a lot of teachers, students of teachers and
dancers influenced extensively by (just to name a few styles)
(a) Todaro, Copes, Zotto, and many other show dancers.
(b) Susana Miller, Cacho Dante, Eduardo Arquimbau, Tete, and many
others.
(c) Gustavo, Chicho, Fabian Salas,
Are these fads? Is one style is authentic and the others not?
Is stage tango a fad because it was so dominant as a style and teaching
methodology from the mid 80s to the mid-90s?
is milonguero a fad because in the early 90s people started learning
the style they saw in Buenos Aires in Almagro and other city center
clubs?
Is nuevo a fad because Gustavo & friends came up with a new analysis
and teaching methology in the mid 90s which has become popular in
Europe & the US?
On Mar 9, 2005, at 6:33 AM, Derik Rawson wrote:
> Dear Taniche:
>
> Yes, I agree with you. One either knows how to dance
> Argentine tango or one does not. To me the dance must
> have its integrity.
>
> To me tango is like a fine steak. It is not chopped
> meat. Chopped meat may be easy to chew, but it is not
> ...
> This is why the Argentines can dance to
> anything with anyone, and we cannot. We stumble from
> one fad to another, trying to find a dance partner
> that has memorized the steps to the "fad" we have
> learned....seeking the dance, and this does not work.
> We cannot dance well with anyone we choose, unless
> they are in our little "club" of limited (bad)
> dancers. I think that this is the point that Manuel
> is trying to make and I think that he is right. My
> opinion.
>
> Derik
>
Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:58:05 -0800
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango Fads?
Dear Tom:
Americans in the US, Europeans and the Japanese as
well all allow tango teachers to create new tango
fads. These teachers are creating the "bull". If one
truly wants to "speak" tango, one has to "live" tango.
Tango is a culture. The task for us is to attempt to
become fluent, just like the Argentines. To do that
one has to speak the Argentine Spanish language (maybe
even the street language) at a minimum and live in the
culture. Otherwise, nothing will make any sense. I
agree with Hector. He has it right.
No, it is the Europeans, Americans and Japanese
individuals who can't stand the thought of seeing
average Argentinians doing something so sublime so
easy, that brings all the intellectualism,
rationalization and denial about the existence of a
tango without roots and without ownership.
Dream on suckers...
Hector Maselli
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG> wrote:
> I'd like Derik to be more specific about "us"
> stumbling from one tango
> fad to another.
>
> On the one hand there are as many styles as there
> are great teachers,
> and many different teachers travel frequently.
>
> On the other, you can assign many teachers as
> practitioners within a
> relatively consistent, definable style or school.
>
> So, for example, you have a lot of teachers,
> students of teachers and
> dancers influenced extensively by (just to name a
> few styles)
> (a) Todaro, Copes, Zotto, and many other show
> dancers.
> (b) Susana Miller, Cacho Dante, Eduardo Arquimbau,
> Tete, and many
> others.
> (c) Gustavo, Chicho, Fabian Salas,
>
> Are these fads? Is one style is authentic and the
> others not?
>
> Is stage tango a fad because it was so dominant as a
> style and teaching
> methodology from the mid 80s to the mid-90s?
>
> is milonguero a fad because in the early 90s people
> started learning
> the style they saw in Buenos Aires in Almagro and
> other city center
> clubs?
>
> Is nuevo a fad because Gustavo & friends came up
> with a new analysis
> and teaching methology in the mid 90s which has
> become popular in
> Europe & the US?
>
>
>
> On Mar 9, 2005, at 6:33 AM, Derik Rawson wrote:
>
> > Dear Taniche:
> >
> > Yes, I agree with you. One either knows how to
> dance
> > Argentine tango or one does not. To me the dance
> must
> > have its integrity.
> >
> > To me tango is like a fine steak. It is not
> chopped
> > meat. Chopped meat may be easy to chew, but it is
> not
> > ...
> > This is why the Argentines can dance to
> > anything with anyone, and we cannot. We stumble
> from
> > one fad to another, trying to find a dance partner
> > that has memorized the steps to the "fad" we have
> > learned....seeking the dance, and this does not
> work.
> > We cannot dance well with anyone we choose, unless
> > they are in our little "club" of limited (bad)
> > dancers. I think that this is the point that
> Manuel
> > is trying to make and I think that he is right.
> My
> > opinion.
> >
> > Derik
> >
>
> Tom Stermitz
> https://www.tango.org
>
>
Derik Rawson
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
https://www.rawsonweb.com
713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone
281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax
d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu
d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu
rawsonweb@yahoo.com
Europe/Asia
rawsonweb@compuserve.com
Paris, France
Make Yahoo! your home page
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:38:20 +0200
From: cella <cella@TTNET.NET.TR>
Subject: Re: Tango Fads?
where is the moderator? :))))
Asia
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:58 PM
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Tango Fads?
> Dear Tom:
>
> Americans in the US, Europeans and the Japanese as
> well all allow tango teachers to create new tango
> fads. These teachers are creating the "bull". If one
> truly wants to "speak" tango, one has to "live" tango.
> Tango is a culture. The task for us is to attempt to
> become fluent, just like the Argentines. To do that
> one has to speak the Argentine Spanish language (maybe
> even the street language) at a minimum and live in the
> culture. Otherwise, nothing will make any sense. I
> agree with Hector. He has it right.
>
> No, it is the Europeans, Americans and Japanese
> individuals who can't stand the thought of seeing
> average Argentinians doing something so sublime so
> easy, that brings all the intellectualism,
> rationalization and denial about the existence of a
> tango without roots and without ownership.
>
> Dream on suckers...
>
> Hector Maselli
>
> Derik
> d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
>
> --- Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG> wrote:
>> I'd like Derik to be more specific about "us"
>> stumbling from one tango
>> fad to another.
>>
>> On the one hand there are as many styles as there
>> are great teachers,
>> and many different teachers travel frequently.
>>
>> On the other, you can assign many teachers as
>> practitioners within a
>> relatively consistent, definable style or school.
>>
>> So, for example, you have a lot of teachers,
>> students of teachers and
>> dancers influenced extensively by (just to name a
>> few styles)
>> (a) Todaro, Copes, Zotto, and many other show
>> dancers.
>> (b) Susana Miller, Cacho Dante, Eduardo Arquimbau,
>> Tete, and many
>> others.
>> (c) Gustavo, Chicho, Fabian Salas,
>>
>> Are these fads? Is one style is authentic and the
>> others not?
>>
>> Is stage tango a fad because it was so dominant as a
>> style and teaching
>> methodology from the mid 80s to the mid-90s?
>>
>> is milonguero a fad because in the early 90s people
>> started learning
>> the style they saw in Buenos Aires in Almagro and
>> other city center
>> clubs?
>>
>> Is nuevo a fad because Gustavo & friends came up
>> with a new analysis
>> and teaching methology in the mid 90s which has
>> become popular in
>> Europe & the US?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 9, 2005, at 6:33 AM, Derik Rawson wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Taniche:
>> >
>> > Yes, I agree with you. One either knows how to
>> dance
>> > Argentine tango or one does not. To me the dance
>> must
>> > have its integrity.
>> >
>> > To me tango is like a fine steak. It is not
>> chopped
>> > meat. Chopped meat may be easy to chew, but it is
>> not
>> > ...
>> > This is why the Argentines can dance to
>> > anything with anyone, and we cannot. We stumble
>> from
>> > one fad to another, trying to find a dance partner
>> > that has memorized the steps to the "fad" we have
>> > learned....seeking the dance, and this does not
>> work.
>> > We cannot dance well with anyone we choose, unless
>> > they are in our little "club" of limited (bad)
>> > dancers. I think that this is the point that
>> Manuel
>> > is trying to make and I think that he is right.
>> My
>> > opinion.
>> >
>> > Derik
>> >
>>
>> Tom Stermitz
>> https://www.tango.org
>>
>>
>
> Derik Rawson
> d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
> https://www.rawsonweb.com
> 713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone
> 281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax
> d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu
> d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu
> rawsonweb@yahoo.com
> Europe/Asia
> rawsonweb@compuserve.com
> Paris, France
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Make Yahoo! your home page
>
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:26:15 +0100
From: Ecsedy Áron <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Re: Tango Fads?
Dear List,
First of all I'd like to apologize from you all that I - unknowingly -
released such a beast onto the list with my letter.
I thought that I am speaking to people who do understand what this forum*
was created for, who know how to express opinion, how to debate in a style
appropriate for civilized people.
In a debate, if someone has only agression as an argument usually means that
he knows he is wrong, just not willing to admit it. I certainly hope that
the opinion of these people is not representative, otherwise I must adjust
my views about Argentine people...
(*To my knowledge this list is supposed to be for discussing tango and
related topics. Was created by non-argentines, for non-argentines, in the
USA. It is governed by a list of very precise rules which is based on quite
international internet ethics. The list has no moderator.)
Regards,
Aron
