2 Tango Music, etc...
From: bugsbunny1959 [bugsbunny1959@HOTMAIL.COM]
Sent: Freitag, 9. Februar 2001 20:29
To: TANGO-L
Cc: bugsbunny1959
Subject: Tango Music, etc...
Well if anyone wants lessons in how not to go about something, perhaps I
should provide lessons, yikes. I have to remember that my tastes in music
are not always others & v/v. I know there are people who feel similar to me
regarding the music they love to dance to, but they certainly don't need my
voice right this second. Sorry to anyone I offended by posting inflammatory
rhetoric. I think it came from frustration I've experienced going to dances
where set after set of music that I don't connect with has been played. I'm
left wondering why a certain style of music is so well-represented when so
much beautiful, instrumental (& some vocal) Tango music is out there. It
would be very enlightening if everyone to switch roles, dancers --> DJs &
vice/versa. All need each other for dances, unless some form of electronic
DJ is created that beams individually selected music to various pair of
dance partners. That would be interesting. Hmmmm.... I guess anytime a large
part of someone's experience is in the hands of someone else (esp. w/
something as religious as tango!), some controversy is bound to arise.
I do think every city or dance should develop its own selections of music
based on the desires of the people dancing there. Tango sometimes has
problems with pretentiousness, narcissism & some folks taking it &
themselves way too seriously. Some newcomers are really put off by a certain
scene sometimes. I've encountered some resistance when I try to talk dance
friends (from other styles of dance) to come learn Tango (or they try it
once & bail for good, turned off by people, music or who knows what). There
are also some really good things as well. Portland has really blossomed with
lots of cool, interesting & fun people, dancing in beautiful venues.
For me, I just don't connect with more minimalist music. I've talked to
dancers about this & they've suggested Color Tango, Forever Tango,
DeAngelis, Troilo, DiSarli, Fresedo, Florindo Sassone. I'm just hoping that
there is enough room for lots of music & that all people involved with a
dance can occasionally check in with everyone there, perhaps esp. with folks
they don't normally visit with.
So, often questions are often more important than answers. Who knows...
Well, enough rambling & time to chill on this subject for a while...
Rick Anderson
Portland, OR
From: Stephen.P.Brown [Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG]
Sent: Freitag, 9. Februar 2001 22:51
To: TANGO-L
Cc: Stephen.P.Brown
Subject: Re: Tango Music, etc...
Rick Anderson wrote:
>I'm left wondering why a certain style of music is so
>well-represented when so much beautiful, instrumental (& some vocal)
>Tango music is out there.
In my opinion the DJ should play tangos in a variety of rhythmic and
orchestration styles. Even the classics can end up sounding
monotonous if the DJ does not provide enough variety.
>For me, I just don't connect with more minimalist music. I've talked
>to dancers about this & they've suggested Color Tango, Forever Tango,
>DeAngelis, Troilo, DiSarli, Fresedo, Florindo Sassone.
A conflict can arise over the music when some people prefer the more
dramatic and smoother music with fuller orchestration, and others
prefer the more rhythmic styles of music. Both are great, but they
provide different dance experiences.
The sound quality of tango recordings is also an issue that is not
frequently discussed. The quality of recording has increased
tremendously since the golden age of tango. The concert music that
prevailed from the mid 1950s-onward is simply recorded with a much
cleaner sound than the dance music of the late 1930s through the early
1950s.
Improvements in recording techniques supported the development of a
recorded concert sound with more full orchestration. That
orchestration would not have sounded like much when recorded in the
late 1930s and early 1940s when more rhythmic playing dominated
recordings.
The recordings made in the 1990s and 2000s are of substantially higher
quality. On the right stereo, the bandoneon on the Daniel Barenboim
CD, Tangos Among Friends sounds very close to real. Unfortunately,
the same cannot be said of Troilo's early rhythmic recordings.
Trying to use concert music for dancing is not very a satisifying
experience for many dancers. Modern recordings with dance rhythms are
perhaps a way to bridge the gap. Fortunately a few exist. Perhaps
more will be made.
With best regards,
Steve (de Tejas)
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/
a noncommercial online resource
for the tango community
From: frankw [frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU]
Sent: Samstag, 10. Februar 2001 00:19
To: TANGO-L
Cc: frankw
Subject: Re: Tango Music, etc...
Friends,
Stephen Brown wrote:
>
> The sound quality of tango recordings is also an issue that is not
> frequently discussed. The quality of recording has increased
> tremendously since the golden age of tango. The concert music that
> prevailed from the mid 1950s-onward is simply recorded with a much
> cleaner sound than the dance music of the late 1930s through the
> early 1950s.
Steve makes an excellent point. Beginners sometimes tell me that the
golden age tangos all sound alike (!), which I take to mean they are
reacting to the conspicuous lack of fidelity in the recordings. I have
had some success restoring 'tolerability' to a few older recordings
using digital filtering methods. The "zippier" sound quality definitely
incites more energy from the dancers! I'm interested whether other DJ's
have undertaken any similar sound restoration projects. If so, what
were your experiences? Comments? Ideas? Suggestions?
Frank - Mpls.
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D. University of Minnesota
frankw@mail.ahc.umn.edu Dept. of Neuroscience
(612) 625-6441 (office) 321 Church Street SE
(612) 624-4436 (lab) Minneapolis, MN 55455
(612) 281-3860 (cellular/home)
From: white95r [white95r@HOTMAIL.COM]
Sent: Freitag, 9. Februar 2001 23:55
To: TANGO-L
Cc: white95r
Subject: Re: Tango Music, etc...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bugs Bunny" <bugsbunny1959@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Tango Music, etc...
snip
> Sorry to anyone I offended by posting inflammatory
> rhetoric. I think it came from frustration I've experienced going to
dances
> where set after set of music that I don't connect with has been played.
I'm
> left wondering why a certain style of music is so well-represented when so
> much beautiful, instrumental (& some vocal) Tango music is out there.
Don't feel alone, I've been to plenty of milonags where the music was pretty
abominable. It seems that many folks who choose and play for milongas have
no idea of what makes good dance music. Some just play whatever they find
and buy without any regard for the actual content of the CD's
> It would be very enlightening if everyone to switch roles, dancers --> DJs
&
> vice/versa. All need each other for dances,
Snip
This sounds reasonable but it is not. The majority of dancers do not
necessarily know or own the music to play at a milonga. They might have a
few CD's and some favorite songs but they can not play music for a milonga
successfully. Also, what makes you think that DJ's do not dance as well? A
good DJ must be a good dancer, otherwise how would he or she know what to
play?
> I do think every city or dance should develop its own selections of music
> based on the desires of the people dancing there. Tango sometimes has
> problems with pretentiousness, narcissism & some folks taking it &
> themselves way too seriously. Some newcomers are really put off by a
certain
> scene sometimes. I've encountered some resistance when I try to talk dance
> friends (from other styles of dance) to come learn Tango (or they try it
> once & bail for good, turned off by people, music or who knows what).
This is what invariably happens anyway. The problem is that locales that do
not have a good foundation of tango dance and musical knowledge will
generally end up with some bizarre and inadequate repertories of tango
music. Unfortunately, "pretentiousness, narcissism & some folks taking it &
themselves way too seriously" is altogether too common. I guess it just goes
with the territory. Tango does tend to attract people who mistake the
Porteqo culture and the tango with a model to emulate for the display
self-righteousness, indignation and elitist, arrogant attitudes.
> For me, I just don't connect with more minimalist music. I've talked to
> dancers about this & they've suggested Color Tango, Forever Tango,
> DeAngelis, Troilo, DiSarli, Fresedo, Florindo Sassone. I'm just hoping
that
> there is enough room for lots of music & that all people involved with a
> dance can occasionally check in with everyone there, perhaps esp. with
folks
> they don't normally visit with.
I don't know what "minimalist music" means in this context. I agree with
Steve Brown that some recordings are very poor. Also, some obscure, arcane
old tangos are not really that good for either dancing or listening. Too bad
some folks think that just because recordings are old, scratchy and weak,
they are somehow more "genuine" and superior to more popular, eminently
danceable, recordings. The ones mentioned above are quite good if chosen
from the "right" period of time (Color Tango, Forever Tango excepted, they
are too new and quite good).
Good music to all,
Manuel
Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 03:03:54 -0700
From: Bugs Bunny <bugsbunny1959@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Tango Music
So we had this beautiful live orchestra playing here tonight, I finally
figured out why dancing to so much of the golden era of Tango music is so
unfulfilling. The recordings that I hear, & I believe are played elsewheres,
have fairly poor acoustically quality of the original music. I wonder if
there is anyone on this list that was around to hear in the 40s or whenever
this stuff came from & could compare/constrast the copies from the original.
Does anyone know anything about sound? Can anything be done to improve the
fidelity of what we have? I've seen people turn up the volume pretty loud w/
mixed results...
Rick Anderson
Portland, OR
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 23:09:36 -0800
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Tango Music
A QUESTION from Rick Anderson.
>"I'm curious, if the dance styles in Argentina are varied, can the same be
said for the dance music?"<
I will try to answer knowing that many dancers may have different opinions
which I respect as every one dances His/Her tango the same way as they live
their lives.
My impression is that,
Tango music in Argentina is varied from several points of view.
One initial basic difference is
1 - The music called "Tipica" which is intended for dancing.
It has a fairly steady beat that makes the music ideal for dancing. It is
beautiful but clear and not very complex.
Examples are Carlos Di Sarli and Juan D'Arienzo.
2 - The Musical orchestrations that are intended for listening. Here the
beat has drastic changes which makes this type of music very difficult to
dance to. The musicians write these melodies for love to the music, it is
more complex and has a rich expressive spectrum, *it is not intended for
social dancing, .
Examples are Mariano Mores, Anibal Troilo?, Horacio Salgan, Astor Piazzola,
Raul Garello, Jose Colangelo, Carlos Gardel.
Carlos Gardel is intended to listen for the beauty of the melody but for the
lyrics as well.
*Music selection is essential when it comes to dance style and choreographic
interpretation.
Another basic difference is the "personality" of the orchestra. Each one has
a distinct character and therefore the interpreter adjusts to it when
dancing. This is to say that a good tango dancer dances differently to each
orchestra.
Juan D'arienzo has a very rhythmic music. He is called "El rey del compas"
(King of the beat). His orchestra has always been very popular. The dancer
should adjust his expression to the fast beat of the music with syncopations
when needed.
His music is good for Milonguero Style but one can also dance Salon to it.
Carlos Di Sarli has a calm, balsamic, contemplative music. His orchestra
plays with a constant rhythm, beautifully monotonous. This makes his music
easy to dance to, a good orchestra for beginners. A predictable, slower
music that is also ideal for dancing with long steps, ideal for exhibitions
as it allows plenty of time for rich expression of both dancers. This music
can rarely induce "a magic experience".
Osvaldo Pugliese is also slow but it has areas of great tension, it has an
exuberant rhythm, with great push, a great musical impulse expressed in the
conversation of the different instruments and also along the different
musical segments. The music flows freely at times, while the melody takes
over in moments of solitude. An ideal music for exhibition and also for
dancing Salon with great expression or Milonguero.
Anibal Troilo one of the most famous bandoneon players gives to his music
beauty, harmony and equilibrium. It is somewhat faster it requires
interpretative practice in order to feel comfortable.
Miguel Calo has also a fairly steady rhythm that makes his music ideal for
Salon Style.
Osvaldo Fresedo has a very melodic music, sometimes with strong jazz
influence ideal for milonguero and salon styles.
*In summary a first distinction must be done between music that was written
for dancing and the one that was specifically written for listening.
Be aware that professional dancers use difficult dramatic music for their
exhibitions to which they choreograph in advance.
This music that seems to be so attractive frequently is not intended for
social dancing.
*The second distinction is the "Personality" of a particular orchestra. The
dancer should adjust his interpretation to each one of them.
The beginner dancer and the foreigner is frequently unable to distinguish
these differences causing them to try to dance to "un-danceable music" as
they do not understand tango musicality, at times reaching the point
where they prefer to dance using tango choreography to non-tango music that
is more familiar to them. Here the loss of character, personality, feeling
and interpretation could be so enormous to the point that the dancer gives
the impression that rather than dancing to a particular music he is moving
totally alienated from it, like moving with a background music.This is
...*normal when faced with a dance and a music of such complexity as
Argentine Tango. There is no need to worry too much as these problems
correct themselves with time, practice and perseverance.
The most important educative tool is listening regularly to tango music,
preferable to Di Sarli, Pugliese, D'Arienzo, Calo, Fresedo and demand that
the instructor teaches musicality and how to dance to the different
orchestras.
I commented one day to an old milonguero that I greatly respected that "I
did not feel certain orchestras" that " found them difficult to dance to".
He asked - "for how long have you been dancing"- I said for about four
years - then he said - "Of course, that is natural - the right feeling for
each orchestra comes after the seventh year-" I thought he was kidding me
...but I know now that he was not.
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 14:09:37 -0800
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Tango Music
Marie-Therese from our tango group sent the following note:
If One wants to learn about the soul of the Other, then Argentine Tango is
the perfect introduction to the process... The music is the Territory and
the
floor it's boundary. Just as a Maestro leads his orchestra to feel the soul
of the melody from a square foot perimeter, so do the Tangueros who venture
into the dance expression to experience an even greater interpretation of
its
power and "raison- d'etre" Not a word needs to be spoken. Within seconds
they
will know if the chance encounter is sublimely important or if the
connection is a dud!. Even a beginner will recognize it and for that reason
endure the process which is often an exercise in humiliation.
I have seen "long term couples", "short time ones" and "this tanda only"
pair,
dance with such SPONTANEOUS harmony that I felt I was beholding WORLD PEACE!
It is the Surprise which makes the package worth opening. As you wrote,
unpredictable ...ONLY ARGENTINE TANGO is consistently a discovery of The
Other!
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:10:46 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango@FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: Tango Music
Sergio wrote:
"So the trip to the store and a question about Argentine Tango music is most
likely going to yield music that is not danceable. The beginner ignorant of
this fact will try to dance to it with great disappointment leading him to
believe that it is better to dance to non-tango music."
A tango friend from the US makes an annual visit to BsAs. He is responsible
for providing the music at several tango dances, so he shops for compact
discs to add to his already vast collection. One night, my partner and I
met him for dinner and a chat. I asked my partner to review the CDs that
my friend had recently purchased. After looking over a large stack of tango
CDs, my partner found no more than three which contained suitable music for
dancing. The majority of the music was for listening. My friend told me he
had spent $500 on CDs. Even those he bought from a local DJ were unsuitable
for dancing. My partner has been dancing in the milongas for many years and
knows what music is appropriate for dancing. It's unfortunate that he
didn't go CD shopping with my friend. Well, he helped the economy here.
Pichi de Buenos Aires
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:22:39 -0500
From: DANCE MORE TANGO TEES 'N THINGS <24tango@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Subject: Re: TANGO MUSIC
It is unfortunate that the gentleman in this post spent so much effort and money
on cds only suitable for listening. Personally, I will only deal with Oscar Himschoot
of Club De Tango when I want to purchase music in BA. His office near Congreso is wall
to wall music, lyrics, books, posters and all things tango. He knows his music
by heart and if you tell him what style and mood you are looking for he will pull
something out for you and let you listen to it. A fabulous place to spend a couple
of hours. IHNFI.
Parana 123-5 piso # 114, 4372-7251. He also has a website from which you can order
but I do not have that info handy.
regards to the list,
norma greco
www.dancemoretango.com
A tango friend from the US makes an annual visit to BsAs. He is responsible
for providing the music at several tango dances, so he shops for compact
discs to add to his already vast collection. One night, my partner and I
met him for dinner and a chat. I asked my partner to review the CDs that
my friend had recently purchased. After looking over a large stack of tango
CDs, my partner found no more than three which contained suitable music for
dancing. The majority of the music was for listening. My friend told me he
had spent $500 on CDs. Even those he bought from a local DJ were unsuitable
for dancing. My partner has been dancing in the milongas for many years and
knows what music is appropriate for dancing. It's unfortunate that he
didn't go CD shopping with my friend. Well, he helped the economy here.
Pichi de Buenos Aires
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:30:15 -0500
From: Keith Elshaw <keith@TOTANGO.NET>
Subject: Tango Music
Thank goodness for those who say only traditional tango music and only
follow the rules. Too many people want to have fun and be creative. This is
a shame. Obviously, the ancient tango traditions must be upheld. It was
invented pure and must never change. No tango music written after 1926
should ever be played, or tango itself will be corrupted and die. It is our
duty to pontificate and be narrow-minded.
It is also disgusting to see figure skaters use tango music in competitions
like the Olympics. How dare they?
Tango is a Serious business. Let us all renew our dedication to the one true
Tango way.
Who was it who said, "Those who write the most about tango on Tango-L are
usually the worst dancers!" Surely, a jest!
What is the world coming to?
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:38:48 -0500
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: tango music
---- Original Message -----
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 12:27:47 +0200
From: Hannes Rieger <hrieger@GMX.DE>
Subject: Re: Music
Manuel Patino wrote:
> I agree with this too. the absolutely worst milongas I've been to
> consisted of a a couple of cassette tapes with a bunch of disjointed
> prerecorded tango and non-tango music.
That's too much generalized! I know at least one milonga lasting from
dusk till dawn with music from prerecorded mini disks and it works
extremely well! Very good mood the whole night, dance flor always filled.
I have to say, however, that they play with very, very few exceptions
only classical tangos. As DJ it's sometimes frustrating to see that
this kind of work also make a success. :-(
> The next worst milongas were
> those with the laptop/mp3 player set up where the DJ just set up
> a program and went to dance!
Stephen Brown wrote:
> DJs can approach an evening with one of several strategies. With their
> knowledge of a large number of CDs, they can compose each tanda and
> program it into the evening's music on the fly. They can prerecord the
> entire evening's program in advance, or they can use prerecorded tandas
> as the building blocks for mixing the evening's music.
After serveral years of DJing I finally use a laptop, IMHO the best way.
With the experience from former times I grouped many songs to tandas
which quickly can be added to the playlist. If I later realize that
some tandas aren't optimal, I can easily change them, which isn't possible
with prerecorded tanda CDs, something I used some time too.
Sometimes before a milonga I build a rough playlist. During the milonga
it's easy to insert, exchange or shorten some tandas, depending on the
mood of the crowd. Nevertheless I have some time to dance.
Hannes
--
www.tango-landsberg.de
