1158 Tango partners
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2003 19:23:10 EDT
From: Charles Roques <Crrtango@AOL.COM>
Subject: Tango partners
tangaux wrote;
<<<I wonder how much having (or not having) a regular
practice partner influences the choice to continue
dancing. I know it almost sidelined me.>>>
I spite of what you may think, having one dedicated partner can actually be a
negative. Everyone, especially new dancers, think that is the holy grail but
it helps very little if you are too new. When you are advanced and want to
pair up, fine, but even then you should dance with others often. If you are
too new you will only end up adapting to each other. You didn't say how long
you have been dancing but if you really are a beginner then a regular partner
can be a big mistake. In fact that is one of the reasons people can't dance
well. Most people end up being able to execute steps only with their partner.
Partners appear to dance better but it is mostly an illusion. If you are both
just learning, how do you even know you are doing the steps correctly even if
you can both do it together? Worse than that it makes for big egos in people
who wrongfully assume they are better, then it really becomes difficult to
teach them or have them go back to basics, which is always where most
people's shortcomings are. No matter how good you get, you should always
practice the basics of walking without bouncing, both back and forward and
even better, if you are a man, can you do back ochos by yourself as well as a
female advanced dancer? Most men can't, even "advanced" ones. If you can't
then you have a long way to go. And as for complex steps, if you are only a
beginner you shouldn't be trying them anyway. That is exactly what some of
the thread has been about - students becoming impatient too soon. A partner
won't help you master them if you both are babes in the woods.
Go to specific practices, not milongas, and actually work on steps, don't
dance. Always warm up by walking and doing ochos, doing molinetes together
with your partners to the left and right, not just leading but the same thing
he or she is doing, then maybe work on a specific step. Try it with others
and see if you can lead, or follow if you are a follower. It doesn't have to
be a regular partner just someone that is at or near your level. Also keep in
mind the learning curve is different for everyone. Not having a regular
partner shouldn't sideline you but being impatient will. Most of the best
people I have studied with, no matter how advanced the workshop, would do
basic walks and variations on them before working on a specific figure.
Milongas are not practices of any sort. That is a beginner's misconception.
You shouldn't be on the floor working on the steps because it interrrupts the
dancing. That is the distinction. A practice is where you stop, make
mistakes, start again, etc, and it isn't a problem. You should only dance the
steps you already know well at a milonga, not the ones you need to practice
more - that's why you go to the practice.
Don't misinterpret the statement about depending on the partner. That could
be referring to dancing anytime, not about having a practice partner.
There will always be a certain amount of just plain work and solo practice to
becoming a good dancer. The best ones are the ones who never stop doing that.
Cheers
Charles
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 03:49:55 -0400
From: Ko Tanaka <Tangoko2@MSN.COM>
Subject: Tango partners
Hi, Charles and all,
I am basically in agreement with you as far as partnering.
It'll be beneficial to dance with variety of dancers, especially at the beginning level.
For your latter point however, to define practica and milonga, I have a second thought.
I just imagine how challenging it maybe for those live in smaller, or growing tango communities,
to stick with the idea.
I am fortunate to live in downtown Manhattan, where milongas are plentiful,
there are 11 milongas within a mile radius from me.
That means, you can choose milongas according to the style you prefer whenever you want, well, almost.
If you have to drive in for an hour or more just to find mediocre (excuse me.) milongas periodically,
I wonder how much energy and luck that require to keep them motivated.
The idea to define practica and milonga, I think, is mainly to keep the traffic flow.
Providing large secure place with right partner, I think it's quite possible to practice at milongas.
Yes, more the merrier, as long as the situation is right. All you have to do is to ask at the right place.
Dance as often, dream of dancing tango as often as I can,
that how I was when I got addicted to this almost 6 years ago.
Ko
Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 15:56:20 -0700
From: Jai Jeffryes <doktordogg@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango partners
--- Charles Roques <Crrtango@AOL.COM> wrote:
> I spite of what you may think, having one dedicated
> partner can actually be a
> negative...
> Partners appear to dance better but it is mostly an
> illusion. If you are both
> just learning, how do you even know you are doing
> the steps correctly even if
> you can both do it together?
Darn! And all along I thought I was having a fabulous
time. Good thing I found out now what a big drawback
that is...
I dance mostly with my girlfriend because that's what
I want out of dancing. I feel lucky that she wants to
dance that much with me. Yayyy
Worst case scenario:
a. I stink and...
b. I'll always stink and ...
c. I'm blissfully ignorant of it because my partner
and I enjoy our dances so much
I have my own private ambitions with my dancing. I
don't care if I pass a test, and I don't care if it
works with every dancer in the world, or even ANY
dancer...
except for my baby...
And you know who you are.
So there.
Jai
NYC
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Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 20:59:16 -0600
From: Russell E Bauer <russell_bauer@LYCOS.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango partners
--
On Fri, 2 May 2003 15:56:20
Jai Jeffryes wrote:
>--- Charles Roques <Crrtango@AOL.COM> wrote:
>> I spite of what you may think, having one dedicated
>> partner can actually be a
>> negative...
>
>> Partners appear to dance better but it is mostly an
>> illusion. If you are both
>> just learning, how do you even know you are doing
>> the steps correctly even if
>> you can both do it together?
>
>Darn! And all along I thought I was having a fabulous
>time. Good thing I found out now what a big drawback
>that is...
>
>I dance mostly with my girlfriend because that's what
>I want out of dancing. I feel lucky that she wants to
>dance that much with me. Yayyy
>
>Worst case scenario:
>a. I stink and...
>b. I'll always stink and ...
>c. I'm blissfully ignorant of it because my partner
>and I enjoy our dances so much
>
>I have my own private ambitions with my dancing. I
>don't care if I pass a test, and I don't care if it
>works with every dancer in the world, or even ANY
>dancer...
>
>except for my baby...
>
>And you know who you are.
>
>So there.
>
>Jai
>NYC
>
Hi Jai,
And so then if this relationship ends, then what? You'll have to start from stratch learning tango with someone new.
Raul
Denver, CO
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Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 11:10:48 -0700
From: Tango Guy <tangomundo55@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango partners
Dear Jai, Good for you! Another phobia is the dreaded 'Partner Phobia'!! The theory seems to be that if one has a steady partner, they become or are bad dancers. I wonder, are married couples bad dancers because they naturally want to dance with each other? The proposed solution seems to be not to have a steady partner in the first place. There IS another solution. Of course this solution gets overlooked because of the dreaded 'Couple Phobia'. The solution is that couples make a point of dancing with others as well as each other. Also, two or more couples can switch off partners among themselves. The couples need to supplement that with dancing with persons outside of their couple group. In this way couples can have their cake and eat it to. The tango community seems to attract a lot of overly independent people who have a lot of trouble with many natural human interactions that require some form of interdependency. They want to press this onto other people as if they are doing them a favor. Ha
ng in there Jai and don't let them hang you!! Happy Tangoneando to youTango Guy
Jai Jeffryes <doktordogg@YAHOO.COM> wrote:--- Charles Roques wrote:
> I spite of what you may think, having one dedicated
> partner can actually be a
> negative...
> Partners appear to dance better but it is mostly an
> illusion. If you are both
> just learning, how do you even know you are doing
> the steps correctly even if
> you can both do it together?
Darn! And all along I thought I was having a fabulous
time. Good thing I found out now what a big drawback
that is...
I dance mostly with my girlfriend because that's what
I want out of dancing. I feel lucky that she wants to
dance that much with me. Yayyy
Worst case scenario:
a. I stink and...
b. I'll always stink and ...
c. I'm blissfully ignorant of it because my partner
and I enjoy our dances so much
I have my own private ambitions with my dancing. I
don't care if I pass a test, and I don't care if it
works with every dancer in the world, or even ANY
dancer...
except for my baby...
And you know who you are.
So there.
Jai
NYC
=====
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Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 12:34:26 -0700
From: Tango Guy <tangomundo55@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango partners
Dear Jai, Another thing to consider concerning tango partners, often overlooked by 'Partner Phobiacs' to their detriment, is that one can advance faster with a partner. With a partner one can practice away from scheduled practicas as well as at practicas. A partner is someone one can usually count on to practice with especially if they are a couple. Practicing with many others is not necessarily the magic solution as is imagined. One can just as easily pick up bad habits from other people as well as from a partner. It would really help if partners took classes together in addition to practice although teachers are often the source of bad habits themselves. It's still a good idea to dance with many others. Other people can have dance ideas one hasn't thought of before. If the partners are taking classes these ideas need to be presented to their teacher for opinion and advice. That way, good ideas can be accepted and bad ones rejected. I thing you are on the right track Jai. Warm RegardsTango Guy
Jai Jeffryes <doktordogg@YAHOO.COM> wrote:--- Charles Roques wrote:
> I spite of what you may think, having one dedicated
> partner can actually be a
> negative...
> Partners appear to dance better but it is mostly an
> illusion. If you are both
> just learning, how do you even know you are doing
> the steps correctly even if
> you can both do it together?
Darn! And all along I thought I was having a fabulous
time. Good thing I found out now what a big drawback
that is...
I dance mostly with my girlfriend because that's what
I want out of dancing. I feel lucky that she wants to
dance that much with me. Yayyy
Worst case scenario:
a. I stink and...
b. I'll always stink and ...
c. I'm blissfully ignorant of it because my partner
and I enjoy our dances so much
I have my own private ambitions with my dancing. I
don't care if I pass a test, and I don't care if it
works with every dancer in the world, or even ANY
dancer...
except for my baby...
And you know who you are.
So there.
Jai
NYC
=====
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Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 16:31:27 -0500
From: Clayton Beach <akumushi@ONEBOX.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango partners
Raul writes:
>And so then if this relationship ends, then what? You'll have to >start from scratch learning tango with someone new.
You can't generalize and say that learning tango as a couple creates interdependent, unskilled dancers out of the two people. I have had two girlfriend/dance partners, and if anything, those two relationships have made my dancing even stronger. I wasn't a 'tango cripple' after we seperated. Sure, while you're together you need to get out there and dance with other people to iron out some bad habits, or take privates with skilled instructors, but a steady dance partner can be incredibly helpful for the beginning dancer. Provided that your communication skills are good, practicing with someone that you trust intimately makes it that much easier and 'safer' for the ego. At least I would hope that a critique from such a partner would be easier to take than one from a complete stranger (otherwise, what are you doing with this person?). I think the main issue is, have these people learned from the right teachers, and do they have potential? Yes, some couples who dance mostly with each other are terrible, but
this surely has more to do with their personalities/innate talents than the fact that they have a steady partner. On the other hand, if a couple only dances with each other, but look good and are having fun, who's business is it if they're 'faking' it?
(Someone might bring up the "who is the 'right' teacher" issue. So, I'll clarify. The 'right' teacher is anyone who can adjust to the student and help them improve their dance, but who can also give the student the ability to analyze their own dance and see their own mistakes. If you want to blame having one partner for poor dancing, what about only going to one teacher? Even if the teacher is incredibly good, this is sure to provide some level of imbalance.)
--
Clayton Beach
akumushi@onebox.com
Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 09:49:01 -0700
From: Tango Guy <tangomundo55@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango partners
Dear Jai, Many moves can be led without the lady knowing the move and her part in it. However, If a move is unfamiliar in a tango community and cannot be led without verbal instruction or direction, the move shouldn't be used unless one knows and dances with someone who does know it. This would be the case if one has a partner. Having a partner gives both the opportunity to work on and do unusual moves. This is another good reason to have a partner. RegardsTango Guy
Tango Guy <tangomundo55@yahoo.com> wrote:Dear Jai, Another thing to consider concerning tango partners, often overlooked by 'Partner Phobiacs' to their detriment, is that one can advance faster with a partner. With a partner one can practice away from scheduled practicas as well as at practicas. A partner is someone one can usually count on to practice with especially if they are a couple. Practicing with many others is not necessarily the magic solution as is imagined. One can just as easily pick up bad habits from other people as well as from a partner. It would really help if partners took classes together in addition to practice although teachers are often the source of bad habits themselves. It's still a good idea to dance with many others. Other people can have dance ideas one hasn't thought of before. If the partners are taking classes these ideas need to be presented to their teacher for opinion and advice. That way, good ideas can be accepted and bad ones rejected. I thing you are on the rig
ht track Jai. Warm RegardsTango Guy
Jai Jeffryes <doktordogg@YAHOO.COM> wrote:--- Charles Roques wrote:
> I spite of what you may think, having one dedicated
> partner can actually be a
> negative...
> Partners appear to dance better but it is mostly an
> illusion. If you are both
> just learning, how do you even know you are doing
> the steps correctly even if
> you can both do it together?
Darn! And all along I thought I was having a fabulous
time. Good thing I found out now what a big drawback
that is...
I dance mostly with my girlfriend because that's what
I want out of dancing. I feel lucky that she wants to
dance that much with me. Yayyy
Worst case scenario:
a. I stink and...
b. I'll always stink and ...
c. I'm blissfully ignorant of it because my partner
and I enjoy our dances so much
I have my own private ambitions with my dancing. I
don't care if I pass a test, and I don't care if it
works with every dancer in the world, or even ANY
dancer...
except for my baby...
And you know who you are.
So there.
Jai
NYC
=====
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https://groups.google.com
Usenet Fast Start for Tango Posters
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