942 Tango and rudeness
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 08:57:28 -0800
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Tango and rudeness
Rose wrote:
"One thing everyone should remember is that just
because someone is dancing that evening, has accepted
invitations from you happily in the past, may be on
friendly terms with you, general manners still apply."
Oh boy! Did you open up a can of worms with this one!
I have been told by some of my friends, and have
experienced it first hand, that tango seems to attract
some of the rudest people in the world. I have NEVER
run into such rude behavior in any other social
situation. Why is it that the tango scene tolerates
it?
I'm not even going to go into being lectured to on the
dance floor. By men who don't have a clue about
leading. We've belabored that particular topic enough.
:) But other examples are what you describe, Rose,
and just being treated like a commodity. Not a human
being.
I had an experience recently where a man said
something ugly to me in a class before we had even
taken a single step together. I didn't know him from
Adam. Never met the guy before. He was in a bad mood
that day, obviously, but why take it out on the dance
partner? I instinctively turned around on my heel and
just walked away from him. How else do you protect
yourself from such boorish behavior? Later I learned
that he's known in the community for his bad manners
and none of my lady friends ever dance with him. Even
though he's considered to be a "good dancer". Who
cares?
I also learned later that some men in the community
have been on his case about it. Such flagrant
boorishness gives the entire community a bad name. But
why has this man gotten as far as he has in the tango
world without being "educated" to behave
appropriately? Why the hell do we put up with this
sh--at all?
And then there are the women. Who behave as if the
entire universe revolved around them. I hear plenty of
horror stories about that from men. But not as many as
I do from women. :) Yes, whatever happened to common
courtesy? Maybe like some other things in life that
are supposed to be common, common sense, for instance,
it's not so common.
Everybody talks about "paying their dues" in tango.
Makes it sound like a repulsive chore of some sort.
Tango? I just don't get it. Why can't people enjoy the
dance at ANY stage of development, with the emphasis
on "enjoy". And we wonder why so many people drop out.
Sure it's hard, but the payoff is enormous.
If tango is supposed to be a metaphor for life, as
some people believe, then it would explain some of
this weird behavior. Maybe. If you're a nice person in
real life, it will show up in tango. And if you're an
SOB in real life, that will show up in tango, too.
Luda
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:09:45 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tango and rudeness
Luda wrote:
>I have been told by some of my friends, and have
>experienced it first hand, that tango seems to
>attract some of the rudest people in the world.
I can think of several reasons that one might encounter more social
problems in tango than elsewhere.
In comparison to salsa or swing or other activities, dancing tango well
seems to require much more of one's partner. Feelings of frustration can
arise when you feel like the person you are dancing with limits your
ability to express yourself. Consequently, tango can more easily lead to
frustrations that are not arising elsewhere
Tango seems to require a certain amount of intensity to learn, and
consequently it attracts people who have the intensity necessary to learn
it. People who are intense may respond to many things in a more intense
manner.
The closeness of the embrace creates a feeling of intimacy that raises the
stakes in the relationship--even if it is just for one dance or tanda.
(Even if you do not feel that intimacy, the person you are dancing with
may feel it.) People who have emotional issues seem more prone to express
those problems when they feel they are in a more intimate environment.
When you combine these three elements: frustration, intensity and
intimacy... look out! The result can be explosive.
With best wishes for 2003,
Steve
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 12:05:41 -0600
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tango and rudeness
...just killing a minute and amused by:
Stephen Brown, who wrote:
> When you combine these three elements: frustration, intensity and
> intimacy... look out! The result can be explosive.
Oh how true!
Regarding the element of frustration, I think that many people are
attracted to tango for it's appearance - of sophistication and artistic
depth. A dancer's wish to be accepted and invited by those who *appear*
to have that sophistication and depth can lead them into real personal
compromise. IMHO, 'tango society' has a value system that is strikingly
like that of Junior High! Who among us would volunteer to go through
THAT again?! Yet, there we are (probably) amid egos and cliques and
loose tongues only to find out that tango can't give us anything that we
don't already have. Our personal needs notwithstanding, we must define
tango for ourselves. Thus, rude people = rude tango dancers with a thin
edifice of sophistication and artistic depth! ;-)
I refer those who may be stressed by tango to a poem by Mary Oliver
entitled 'Wild Geese'. ...lots of great metaphors for 'tango life'.
web link to the poem "Wild Geese':
https://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/geese/geese.html
All the best,
Frank in Minneapolis
--
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D.
University of Minnesota
612-625-6441
Department of Neuroscience
6-145 Jackson Hall
321 Church Street SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Department of Veterinary Pathobiology
205 Veterinary Science
1971 Commonwealth Ave.
St. Paul, MN 55108
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 09:42:00 -0700
From: Brian Dunn <Brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango and rudeness
Luda wrote:
>>>
I have been told by some of my friends, and have
experienced it first hand, that tango seems to attract
some of the rudest people in the world. I have NEVER
run into such rude behavior in any other social
situation. Why is it that the tango scene tolerates
it?...If tango is supposed to be a metaphor for life, as
some people believe, then it would explain some of
this weird behavior. Maybe. If you're a nice person in
real life, it will show up in tango. And if you're an
SOB in real life, that will show up in tango, too.
<<<
I think you're right that your personality comes out in your tango - but it
seems to me that tango is actually a "personality amplifier." What in other
less-intimate contexts would be considered little flaws are amplified in
tango to the level of truly unbearable behavior...there is a vulnerability
that we take on in tango, sharing personal space and dropping our
boundaries. It's such a great opportunity to explore really inhabiting the
masculine and feminine essences in ourselves, and many people are really
attracted to the promise of that. Sadly, many also "overshoot" sometimes in
the attempt to really go for it in tango's socially permissive
setting...and, from what I've heard and seen, most of the overshooters are
guys.
>>>
I had an experience recently where a man said
something ugly to me in a class before we had even
taken a single step together. I didn't know him from
Adam. Never met the guy before. He was in a bad mood
that day, obviously, but why take it out on the dance
partner? I instinctively turned around on my heel and
just walked away from him. How else do you protect
yourself from such boorish behavior?
<<<
Sounds like the perfect solution to me. I have heard that for a woman to
walk away from a partner in a milonga in mid-song is the ultimate rebuke,
especially because in a milonga "everybody sees everything."
In the old days in Argentina, if the men in a community determined that a
guy was behaving badly and bothering "their" women, they'd get together and
work him over out back to teach him a lesson. While some may rejoice at
this image, this "tango vigilante" approach has its own dark side,
apparently. Stories have circulated of "the men" ganging up in various ways
to get rid of a new guy who is winning favor with some of "their" women with
novel moves or new approaches to the dance (Juan Bruno, 1940's), or is even
just attractively younger (Roberto Reis, 1980's). I suppose the cure can in
some cases be worse than the disease.
Open-hearted tangos to all,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
1(303)938-0716
https://www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:11:07 -0500
From: Ba Tango <rhink2@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject: Tango and rudeness
Hola All,
Of the dance communities with which I've been involved (salsa, swing, and
ballroom) I must agree that as a whole tangueros-(as) are the rudest. I've
pondered the question of why this should be and concluded that this is an
exercise in futility.
However, this bad behavior really irks me; I take it personally even though
it may not be direct toward me. I take it personally, because it reflects
on me. Indeed, it reflects on us all. If you as a tango dancer want bigger,
better, or more frequent tango events, then we must grow the tango
community. This is economics. Damage done because somebody's ego gets in
the way goes well beyond a single incident. The person on the receiving end
of the rudeness likely will tell friends with the message, "Beware of those
tango guys!" Not exactly fostering an environment to grow the community.
So when I see rude behavior at a mlonga, and unfortunately in my
neighborhood I see it not infrequently, I stay away from the perpetrator.
I'm remind of my former wife's advice, "Don't make eye contact with
weirdos."
Bob Hink
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:23:29 +0100
From: Janette Mandanus <foremast@GMX.NET>
Subject: Re: Tango and rudeness and amateur translations
Hello All, i want to say that this is depending on several factors:
First it depens on of what are you used to, can u imagine u dancing tango in
Kabul??
Surely u can imagine yourself dancing Tango in Barcelona, Spain.
I tell u as a catalan speaking and native person that there's no problem in
Barcelona. And if u go to dance in Barcelona no one is ofensive or rude. And
also i want to say that the ironic way of speaking of the argentine people is
very far from being ofensive.
"B..." as an example is a funny word used in the every day live that is not
ofensive at all and that must not be translated cause it makes confussions.
Note: I am not from Latinoamerica and i never was there and also i dont have
relatives from there so my apreciations are from a quite neutral point of
view. Of course a bit European, yeah.
Ciao,
Johann
Ps. yes of course i think the tangueros ones are NOT the rudest. I think it
depens quite a lot of how much you are different from them, and how do you
feel outside of your envoirement what makes me feel that maybe the tango
envoirement is not very natural in you.
Well!! that's just a catalan opinion wich is very personal and from the
mediterranean european coast.
(Tolerancia, tolerancia !! Esa es una buena palabra para traducir.)
> Hola All,
>
> Of the dance communities with which I've been involved (salsa, swing, and
> ballroom) I must agree that as a whole tangueros-(as) are the rudest.
> I've
> pondered the question of why this should be and concluded that this is an
> exercise in futility.
>
> However, this bad behavior really irks me; I take it personally even
> though
> it may not be direct toward me. I take it personally, because it reflects
> on me. Indeed, it reflects on us all. If you as a tango dancer want
> bigger,
> better, or more frequent tango events, then we must grow the tango
> community. This is economics. Damage done because somebody's ego gets in
> the way goes well beyond a single incident. The person on the receiving
> end
> of the rudeness likely will tell friends with the message, "Beware of
> those
> tango guys!" Not exactly fostering an environment to grow the community.
>
> So when I see rude behavior at a mlonga, and unfortunately in my
> neighborhood I see it not infrequently, I stay away from the perpetrator.
> I'm remind of my former wife's advice, "Don't make eye contact with
> weirdos."
>
> Bob Hink
>
>
>
--
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Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:56:48 +0100
From: Peter Wenger <Wenger-Lehrmittel@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Tango and rudeness
Hallo Bob,
I am from Switzerland and are living now in Germany. I dont understand
what you are meaning with rudeness. In Germany and Swiss I havent seen
somthig rude at a milonga. But perhaps is is so in the USA. So what are
the rude people doing? Could you explain? At the moment I have no idea
what you are speaking about.
Peter
Hola All,
Of the dance communities with which I've been involved (salsa, swing, and
ballroom) I must agree that as a whole tangueros-(as) are the rudest. I've
pondered the question of why this should be and concluded that this is an
exercise in futility.
However, this bad behavior really irks me; I take it personally even though
it may not be direct toward me. I take it personally, because it reflects
on me. Indeed, it reflects on us all. If you as a tango dancer want bigger,
better, or more frequent tango events, then we must grow the tango
community. This is economics. Damage done because somebody's ego gets in
the way goes well beyond a single incident. The person on the receiving end
of the rudeness likely will tell friends with the message, "Beware of those
tango guys!" Not exactly fostering an environment to grow the community.
So when I see rude behavior at a mlonga, and unfortunately in my
neighborhood I see it not infrequently, I stay away from the perpetrator.
I'm remind of my former wife's advice, "Don't make eye contact with
weirdos."
Bob Hink
--
Wenger-Lehrmittel
Peter Wenger
Bl|tenhang 10
D-78333 Stockach
Tel. 07771 3914
Fax. 07771 3918
email:wenger@wenger-lehrmittel.de
home: www.wenger-lehrmittel.de
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:21:17 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tango and rudeness
Luda writes:
> I have been told by some of my friends, and have
> experienced it first hand, that tango seems to attract
> some of the rudest people in the world.
Well, let's see. A self-described newcomer to tango,
you have nevertheless seen fit to make the following
pronouncements:
1. You've declared the cabaceo to be "childish
and silly," and have informed us that "there
are other, much more effective ways, of inviting
someone to dance." Evidently decades of refining
milonga social mores in Buenos Aires to best
handle awkward situations pales in comparison to
your intuitive notions of how things ought to be,
based upon your several months of newcomer analysis.
2. You've let American women know that many of them
"dress like a tart" at milongas and that their dress
in general is "inappropriate" for women of
"a certain age and shape," and ask if Argentine
women dress that way as well.
3. After being informed that they do and that they
are comfortable with their bodies, you go on to
elaborate in another posting that "just because
tango started in the brothels of BsAs doesn't
mean modern women (especially independent American
women) have to look like that today," letting us
know that yes, you did indeed mean what you said
the first time that certain American women and the
Argentine women they emulate dress like tarts, and
that moreover, they have a long way to go before they
can get over such obvious over-dependence upon men
and match the presumably normal American woman
in the independence department.
4. We then are admonished that "bad taste is bad taste
in any era" (apparently "bad taste," like
"inappropriate," is another Luda Absolute), and
that if the black that so many Americans wear marks
them as touristy, "so what, it's better than looking
like a tramp." Another touche for you; looks like
the Argentines (and Americans who have foolishly
gotten hopelessly caught up emulating them) are
really starting to fall behind in the score. Can
they ever catch up?
5. Now you say that tango seems to attract the rudest
people in the world. You might have a point there.
Huck
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 18:59:15 -0500
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango and rudeness
>Hallo Bob,
.I am from Switzerland and are living now in Germany. I dont understand
>what you are meaning with rudeness. In Germany and Swiss I havent seen
>somthig rude at a milonga. But perhaps is is so in the USA. So what are
>the rude people doing? Could you explain? At the moment I have no idea
>what you are speaking about.
>Peter
Hi Peter,
I too would like to hear more details of this rude behavior. While I'm sure
that some folks will often manage to offend others, and I'm also sure that
many others take offense very easily, I would like to hear or read examples
of rude or innapropriate behavior of the tango afficionados.
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 12:10:07 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Tango and rudeness
tango seems to attract
> > some of the rudest people in the world.
>
> Well, let's see. A self-described newcomer to tango,
> you have nevertheless seen fit to make the following
> pronouncements:
>
> 1. You've declared the cabaceo to be "childish
> and silly," ...etc.etc.
Right on, Huck.
A fact is, that intense situations magnify people's personality traits with
all their weaknesses and quirks, and put them to the test, whether they hold
up under the strain.
A fact is also, that tango attracts a bunch of big egos and provides them
with a playground. I remember the sense of nausea I felt, when I read the
German book "From the gut of tango", and came to two chapters titled "The
Little King", and "The Diva who cries sometimes", where the (male) author
smugly (?) describes the fact, that the milonga is a space even for men who
are "not so attractive" (an understatement) in real life to act out and feel
like a lounge lizard surrounded by a bunch of adoring women, provided that
they are able to dance. The next chapter goes on to describe the situation
of the woman: a "Tango Diva", by definition a woman who is such a good
dancer that she has become the favourite tanguera of several alpha males,
may be completely ignored if she goes to a new milonga where nobody knows
her, and may end up crying in spite of all her fame at home base (do I read
false pity between the lines? Does the "little king" not wallow in the
knowledge that this could never happen to HIM?).
So, occasionally, you get some rotten apples who are able to make the mood
go foul. One or two are usually enough for me, and I tend to stay away from
such places. On the other hand, one or two nice guys can make the whole
event a pleasure to attend.
My one and only extreme exemple of rudeness is this,and it happened only
once:
Three years ago, when I was still a beginner, there was this man in the
milongas here, who thought himself an excellent dancer. He was completely
bald at 35 or so, always wore a scarf on his head. I already knew that he
would always take the chance to express some criticism whenever I danced
with him during a workshop. When he came to our practica, I asked him to
dance,which he answered with the question:"Do you think, you are good enough
to keep up with me ?" We started dancing, and he tried to outrace me at
every giro, and indeed made it difficult to keep up with him, as he would
always step before me and not wait. Afterwards I asked him, using Japanese
honorics, with an ironic gleam in my eye:" Was that to your satisfaction ?"
He answered condescendendingly:"Well, you still have to learn a lot." "And
you..."I countered. He interrupted me immediately:"I have to learn NOTHING,
I spent four years in South America !" "And you-" I continued, undeterred,
"still have to learn how to treat a woman. Tango is not a competition
between male and female." He walked away and never came back to our
practica. The next time I met him in the corridor of another milonga, he
gave me a look like a beaten dog, and quickly disappeared around the corner.
Tango may attract people like this too, but fortunately they are few, and
there are ways to get rid of them,even if one can't change them for the
better.
Still, yes, tango could be a lot more fun, if people tried to be a little
more friendly and welcoming, and left their personal hangups and cultural
conditioning in the background for the duration of the evening. Is that too
much to ask ?
Astrid
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 16:09:53 +0100
From: Janette Mandanus <foremast@GMX.NET>
Subject: Re: Tango and rudeness
Hello All, now is clear, that those apreciations about that "the strongest
rudeness is in Tango" more than salsa and others is FALSE, and is oviously a
subjective apreciation.
Thanks, Johann Trompeta
> >Hallo Bob,
> .I am from Switzerland and are living now in Germany. I dont understand
> >what you are meaning with rudeness. In Germany and Swiss I havent seen
> >somthig rude at a milonga. But perhaps is is so in the USA. So what are
> >the rude people doing? Could you explain? At the moment I have no idea
> >what you are speaking about.
> >Peter
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> I too would like to hear more details of this rude behavior. While I'm
> sure
> that some folks will often manage to offend others, and I'm also sure that
> many others take offense very easily, I would like to hear or read
> examples
> of rude or innapropriate behavior of the tango afficionados.
>
> Manuel
>
>
>
>
> visit our webpage
> www.tango-rio.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:52:37 -0800
From: Mark Rector <rmarkrector@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Tango and rudeness?
The Chicago tango community can only be described as
warm and friendly. Dancers in the Windy City go out of
their way to make newcomers feel welcome, and there is
a great feeling of cameraderie among those who have
been on the scene for a while. The hallmarks of
Chicago tango are courtesy, good fellowship, good
humor, and a deep and passionate love of the music and
the dance.
Cheers! -Mark
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:49:02 -0800
From: Mark Rector <rmarkrector@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Tango and rudeness
Astrid wrote: "When he came to our practica, I asked
him to dance, which he answered with the question: 'Do
you think you are good enough to keep up with me?'"
Yikes! Please correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't
the leader dance to the abilities of his partner,
bringing out her talents, sharing his talents with
her, making the dance as enjoyable for the both of
them as possible? I repeat... Yikes!
Cheers! -Mark
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 14:31:28 -0500
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango and rudeness
> Astrid wrote: "When he came to our practica, I asked
> him to dance, which he answered with the question: 'Do
> you think you are good enough to keep up with me?'"
Wow, along with the above and another private message I received, I must
conclude that some unfortunate communities are cursed with the most
obnoxious characters! I guess this is just another small slice of life and
of the world in general. One is bound to find boorish characters anywhere,
tango is no exception.
I would like to think that these bad examples are exceptions rather than the
norm. I've traveled a good bit in tango and I've generally found tango
dancers to run the gamut between very friendly, gracious individuals to some
really rude and obnoxious persons. The great majority rests somewhere in
between.
By and large, I've found folks to be a little bit reserved or perhaps shy.
Most will respond very well to friendly overtures while the remainder are
either too reserved or just too arrogant and stuck-up to welcome strangers.
Outside of very rude remarks (like Astrid's encounter) or outright
aggression, I don't take too many things too seriously. Sure, it's no fun to
get rejections from people one asks to dance, and sometimes it is
uncomfortable to feel a little left out or "looking from the outside in",
but there really are no guarantees that tango folks (or anyone else) will
treat us all like we like to be treated.
Probably, the more each of us tries to be friendly and gracious, the more
others will react in kind. If others ignore or ostracize you, best stick to
your friends or take a critical self examination. The answer could be very
obvious ;-) Otherwise, remember that there are lots of uneducated folks out
there. They just don't know how to behave socially beyond their clique.
Gracious encounters to all,
Manuel
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 02:39:06 -0700
From: Ricardo Tanturi <tanturi999@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Rudeness
--- Michael <michael@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM> wrote:
> Bernhard Michaelis wrote:
>
> > that's a pretty accurate description of Susanna Miller dancing, no
> > elegance at all.
>
> That's really rude and unnecessary. Why be insulting to someone who is
> not present to defend herself?
Nichael - you're one of the people on the list I really respect for your
postings and for what you're trying to do for dance in Bellingham, but I really
disagree with you on this one. I think Susanna Miller is a "public figure" and
fair game for negative comments, whether she is present on tango-l or not. A
negative comment about a teacher is not a personal insult. And speaking of
rude - my interactions w/ Susanna have been limited to a weekend workshop and a
private lesson, but my strong impression is that Susanna isn't slow to insult
anyone she feels like, present of not.
Since we're on the topic, I'll contine with my own "rudeness" - Susanna has a
great reputation as a teacher, but she can be very unpleasant personally. I
didn't have a personal clash with her (as have some people I've talked to), but
I just felt that her personality was so unpleasant that I wouldn't want to take
another class with her. I don't mean that she is a demanding teacher, strict,
or anything like that - just unpleasant.
As for elegance - my strongest impression of Susanna is this - standing on a
sidewalk outside after the workshop, round shoulders, sort of greasy,
disheveled hair, eating bacon rinds or cornchips and spraying her listeners
with crumbs and saliva as she loudly complained about something or other (no
lie!). But actually I do like the way she dances.
Sorry about the tirade, but I find it so ironic I can't keep my mouth shut
about it. Susanna has such a wonderful reputation as a teacher of this close,
intimate style, with so much warmth and feeling (the style that I really like),
but I wouldn't want to be in the same room with her. And I associate tango
with elegance, but....
I won't apologize for being offensive and making people angry, but I'm sure
there ARE many good things about Susanna and her teaching, and if you really
like Susanna and I make you feel bad, I am sorry about that. These are just my
own impressions and opinions about a public figure. And while my comments are
negative, I've tried to be descriptive nad informative rather than just
insulting.
"Ricardo"
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:21:29 -0600
From: Bernhard Michaelis <bernhard@NATIVECHILD.COM>
Subject: Rudeness
Ricardo wrote:
> These are just my
> own impressions and opinions about a public figure.
Here are mine.
When I first noticed her on the local dance floor she just seemed to be
another dancer, not standing out from the crowd. I didn't know at the
time that she was a visiting teacher, nor did I know too much about
Milonguero style - from the little I knew and had experienced in classes
I felt that this was my style. I took a private class with her and a
couple of workshops. I watched her dance at local milongas again and
again, with the same conclusion: I don't want to look like her once I
have become a decent dancer. No elegance in her style. Period. Since
students generally resemble very much their teacher because they absorb
his/her corrections and advice, I didn't know what to do in this
situation: A style I wanted to learn, yet not knowing from whom to learn
it. Since then I take classes whenever I can from Cacho - as Sergio
observes so well:
> Walks flat footed on two parallel lines, the feet do not brush heels
as they
> pass each other, rather they are allowed to be apart in order to
obtain
> better balance.
It's the balance part, that I especially can learn from him, and he
definitely has elegance - and again, I'm not sure when he walks forward
that he actually lands on flat feet.
But it really clicked when Alicia Pons was invited as a guest teacher:
absorbing her dance style was something to aspire to. (I'm a purist, I
believe that one should first learn a dance from the horses' mouth, and
then adapt that style to one's own preference and liking). Taking a
private lesson from her was a pleasure, she put me at ease from the
beginning and I felt transformed in my dancing after the lesson.
Needless, to say, she is the one i will take classes from when visiting
in Buenos Aires. I have come to the conclusion that Susanna Miller is
definitely overrated as THE public representative of Milonguero style ,
and yes I have been scolded and yelled at in a privat lesson by her.
There were some organizational glitches in the timing of the lesson but
definitly not my fault, but I was the one she yelled at. Unto this day,
I wish i had left her class right then and there - but I decided that I
had come to learn something from her and stuck it out. Of course, there
is a wealth of experience and knowledge to be gained from her, but what
a price to pay ;-)
There are a lot of advanced dancers and teachers on this list. I know
from my own experince in my fields of skills and knowledge that one
tends to forget the humble beginnings and the steep learning curves of
one's field of expertise. For me learning Tango is like learning a new
language, there is always the point of frustration where one wants to
just walk away - I'm beyond that point now. But there might be some
beginners out there who are definitely not helped along by teachers
whose personal character flaws spill over into the professional arena.
Bernhard
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:00:39 -0700
From: Phil Seyer <weddingdj@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Rudeness
As far a rudeness is concerned... hmmm. how shall I say this....
Uh, er. many times I've read tango-L posting just as the date for a
milonga approaches. I live in a strange area where there is a milonga
only once every two weeks! I used to live in an area where there was
tango dancing nearly every night of the week. No so any more.
So I look forward to it -- that is until I read tango-L. Then
suddenly I don't want to go.
If reading tango-L does this to my spirit, to my love for tango
dancing, I wonder.... should I continue subscribing? I learn a lot
from reading tango-L .... but to end up feeling like I don't want to
dance tango? Is it worth it?
I've decided to "try hard" to not let the comments in tango-L upset
me. Just laugh and enjoy it for what it is worth.
Remember, folks, when I post, often it is with tongue in cheek.
(meaning I'm not so serious and I have to keep my tongue in my cheek
to keep from laughing out loud).
So I need to also remember not to take comments from others so seriously, too.
Having said that, I think I'll hang out in tang-L for a while longer
and occasionally continue my war against the incorrect use of the term
syncopation and misconceptions about beat per measure in vals.
By the way, I posted a question about how to dance to SLOW waltz in
tango. I don't recall seeing any answers. I only heard one slow waltz
ever played at a tango. It was interesting trying to tango to it.
Phil Seyer
https://www.argentine-tango - LIVE tango chat
