3333 "Taxi Dancers" Buenos Aires
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:51:02 EDT
From: TangoLady@AOL.COM
Subject: "Taxi Dancers" Buenos Aires
Hola List Members:
There is an interesting article that appeared today in "El Clarin" of Buenos
Aires, in Spanish, for those interested click on the link below.
https://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/04/03/sociedad/s-950045.htm
Saludos,
Lydia
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:08:55 -0400
From: Richard deSousa <mallpasso@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: "Taxi Dancers" Buenos Aires
For those of us not literate in Spanish, can someone please provide a
translation? ;-) Gracias!
el bandito de tango
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:51:02 EDT
Subject: [TANGO-L] "Taxi Dancers" Buenos Aires
Hola List Members:
There is an interesting article that appeared today in "El Clarin" of
Buenos
Aires, in Spanish, for those interested click on the link below.
https://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/04/03/sociedad/s-950045.htm
Saludos,
Lydia
Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 22:49:21 +0200
From: Ecsedy Áron <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Re: "Taxi Dancers" Buenos Aires
Dear Richard,
I recommend https://babelfish.altavista.com/ . The translation is bad, but it
gives you a general idea about the article.
Best wishes,
Aron
Ecsedy Áron
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
ICQ# 46386265
https://www.milonga.hu/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
> [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of Richard deSousa
> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 10:09 PM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] "Taxi Dancers" Buenos Aires
>
> For those of us not literate in Spanish, can someone please provide a
> translation? ;-) Gracias!
>
> el bandito de tango
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TangoLady@AOL.COM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Sent: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 14:51:02 EDT
> Subject: [TANGO-L] "Taxi Dancers" Buenos Aires
>
> Hola List Members:
>
> There is an interesting article that appeared today in "El
> Clarin" of Buenos Aires, in Spanish, for those interested
> click on the link below.
>
> https://www.clarin.com/diario/2005/04/03/sociedad/s-950045.htm
>
> Saludos,
> Lydia
>
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 09:57:43 +0200
From: Melina Sedo <melinasedo@ONLINEHOME.DE>
Subject: Taxi Dancers
Hi everybody,
concerning mixers, taxi dancers and all other kinds of getting people
to dance together my opinion is: everything's ok, that hurts nobody and
discriminates nobody.
So inviting Taxi-dancers may be in one occasion a good idea, in the
other a very bad one.
I'll tell you 2 storys:
Some years ago, we organized a Carnival-Milonga with the theme "The
roaring twenties". We had a non-tango-dance performance with popular
dances of the time, everybody (even the the waiters), we had special
cortinas and - we had taxi-dancers, gigolos.
These were good dancers, that we invited from other places of germany,
offering them a free stay at the site of our Milonga - a 4-star hotel.
The arrangement was: as long as you wear a white ribbon you're
"in-play", and woman may come to invite you. Meaning: our gigolos could
also take spare time during the Milonga.
Women had to buy a ticket of 1 Euro which was worth 3 dances. (The
money lateron was given to a welfare-organisation.)
Everything was meant as a carnival-gag.
The result: our gigolos never took off their ribbons but stayed
"in-role" all night. They liked the game! All of them explained, that
being in a more passive role, not beeing responsible for looking for a
partner for them was very relaxing.
And the women? Well, it took them a time to warm up. The first hour
nobody dared to play the game, but them - one by one - they started to
buy the tickets. At the end our 5 gigolos had to dance all night
without a pause! The women loved it! For the first time, they could
invite men, without the nagging fear: "Everybody is going to think, I
have to invite them, because otherwise nobody dances with me." And: the
women buying the tickets were not only the ones who usually sit around
not beeing invited: even the best dancers liked to play the game. Some
of the women later came to us, saying, that this has been the best
Milonga in their Tango-life. And they still ask us, if we're going to
repeat it.
Of course there have been critics too: some men (good dancers) who
usually dance at our Milongas, did not like the idea of men beeing
invited by women. In our region mostly men invite women. I don't know,
if the situation in the States is comparable...
Ok, in this case, taxi-dancers have been a excellent idea. But there
are other examples, too.
A friend of mine booked an organized tour to Buenos Aires together with
his wife. Arriving in Buenos Aires they noticed that all the other
participants were women of an older age, who had been "supplied" with
local dancers for the classes and for the Milongas. Well, that's ok,
isn't it?
BUT: after the first evening at the Milongas the women started boasting
very openly about the relationships to their dance - partners which
seem to have been not only related to tango. And this got worse every
day, giving my friend the impression, he was on a organised sex-trip to
Thailand. The taxi-dancers themselves did not seem to enjoy the
arrangement very much. They had to earn the money. My friend and his
wife quit the tour.
So, what about taxi-dancers? Exploitation or enlargement of the horizon?
It depends...
By the way. I wrote my psychological thesis about "gender and sex-roles
in Tango". You'll find it at our site. Unfortunately it's in German...
;-)
Greetings,
Melina
www.tangodesalon.de
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 01:29:25 +0300
From: "M Gonzalez" <mytangoaddress@gmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Taxi Dancers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<214440680607271529he3ccab6x696b694869e488c1@mail.gmail.com>
Dear Tangueros,
Can I ask you for your views on the presence of taxi dancers at festivals
(in the US, and everywhere else)?
I don't seem to resolve my own personal deep conflict with it-- I want to
have the certainty that, when I am being asked to dance, is because the
person wanted to dance with me, rather than give me some sort of 'charity'
dance-- or a 'sales pitch' dance, to ensure that I come back to this or that
festival once more.
Even if I dance less, I ask for quality and connection--and something tells
me that, by nature, a taxi-tanda can never be good enough-- any views?
Angie
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 18:56:16 -0400
From: Tine <tine_elists@tangomuse.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Taxi Dancers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<f98ba6050607271556q1460bd78pe2286a0f90c99a73@mail.gmail.com>
Angie
The probability is significant that you have already danced with an
amateur taxi dancer at a festival you attended, without knowing it. Here in
the US it is more a volunteer kinda job, I think, therefore no taxi dancer
would dance with you if they had no desire to. Possibly there are not quite
enough judging from the gender imbalance at festivals.
At our Yale Tango Fest we aimed for a 12:10 F:M gender balance, after some
market research that was agreed to be optimal because guys spend a larger
proportion of their time on the dance floor (no doubt the comfy shoes vs
stilettos has something to do with that).
The reason we constrained registration in this way is we felt uncomfortable
taking money from more women than we knew we had guys for. We thought that
taking people's money constituted a binding agreement to provide tango
opportunities for them. It's not nice to have a row of cross-looking females
lined around the dance floor staring enviously at the dancers' legs whizzing
by.
In the end more guys than 12:10 materialized, we probably had 11:10 and
there were some minimal mutterings but not too much because all our chicas
were lovely, charming and friendly and totally worth waiting for.
Tine
On 7/27/06, M Gonzalez <mytangoaddress@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Tangueros,
>
> Can I ask you for your views on the presence of taxi dancers at festivals
> (in the US, and everywhere else)?
>
> I don't seem to resolve my own personal deep conflict with it-- I want to
> have the certainty that, when I am being asked to dance, is because the
> person wanted to dance with me, rather than give me some sort of 'charity'
> dance-- or a 'sales pitch' dance, to ensure that I come back to this or
> that
> festival once more.
>
> Even if I dance less, I ask for quality and connection--and something
> tells
> me that, by nature, a taxi-tanda can never be good enough-- any views?
>
> Angie
>
--
_____________________
www.tangomuse.com
www.yaletangoclub.org
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 17:07:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tangoo <bailartangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Taxi Dancers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I tried being a taxi dancer once, @ a big festival.
Its not a good fit for me, it did feel like charity/pity dancing.
Worse yet, it set up expectations later, when I was off duty,
interferring with selecting partners.
Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:29:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Taxi Dancers
Angie,
One way of looking at it is that taxi dancers let you show
off your dance skills, so that the other men can ask you to
dance. It can be hard to get a dance if no one has seen
you dance before. I know two women who paid the
airfare/hotel to a festival for a talented but poor college
student, with the condition that he dance a few dances with
them at the milongas. After that he was free to dance with
whom he wanted. The arrangement worked well for everybody.
And the women had a great time.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- M Gonzalez <mytangoaddress@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Tangueros,
>
> Can I ask you for your views on the presence of taxi
> dancers at festivals
> (in the US, and everywhere else)?
>
> I don't seem to resolve my own personal deep conflict
> with it-- I want to
> have the certainty that, when I am being asked to dance,
> is because the
> person wanted to dance with me, rather than give me some
> sort of 'charity'
> dance-- or a 'sales pitch' dance, to ensure that I come
> back to this or that
> festival once more.
>
> Even if I dance less, I ask for quality and
> connection--and something tells
> me that, by nature, a taxi-tanda can never be good
> enough-- any views?
>
> Angie
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 19:22:14 +0200
From: Melina Sedo <melinasedo@onlinehome.de>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Taxi Dancers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Hello everybody,
In my opinion there are serveral kinds of taxi dancers and each one may
be an addition to a Milonga, if you do not take it too seriously and
don't make a fuss about it. It's just a part of the game.
A The hidden taxi dancer
A lot of men will dance with women who are not their first choice for
the "common good". Most organisers even invite them to do so. If I see
a woman sitting around at our Milongas I will ask one of the men I know
to dance with her, if they do not notice themselves. This woman may not
have been his dream-partner but it does not hurt him either to dance
with her, it may even be very nice. And if he behaves polite and nicely
and does not give the impression of doing it out of "charity", she
will be happy to dance, other dancers may notice her and the general
atmosphere will improve as nobody's sitting around with a sad face.
In my opinion all organisers of Milongas should see to that the women
get to dance, may she be a beginner, a stranger or a
good-dancing-attractive-female whom nobody dares to invite. A lot of
Milongas wither and die because of the women staying away out of
frustration, which results in the men not coming again, because there
are not enough women. A vicious circle...
B The fun taxi dancer
Taxi dancers may be part of a special Milonga. We once organised a
Milonga in the 20's style with serveral attractions including taxi
dancers. We invited 5 good dancers from all over Germany, who would be
able to play this role for a night and they got the hotel for free as a
"pay". The women bought tickets for 1 Euro, which were worth 3 dances.
(The money was donnated for charity.) Everybody had a lot of fun: It
was one of the rare Milongas, where men and women were almost in equal
numbers, women could invite men feely without feeling bad and the
taxi-dancers loved playing their role as "Tango-Gigolos". I've never
seen so many happy women at a Milonga before or after...
... one or two of the better male dancers though felt offended, as they
where not the main attraction this evening and the women where not
"haunting" them as usual. One did not even come as a protest! ;-)
C The professional taxi dancer
Someone who's easily recognisable as a taxi dancer and may be hired
officially, either for an evening or a few dances. There are quite a
lot of them in Buenos Aires and I think it's totally ok - if you don't
treat them as male prostitutes. It's business - why not?
My opinion concerning the quality of taxi-dances:
Maybe they will not be heaven, but if you've been sitting around for
hours waiting to be invited you just want to dance and a taxi-dancer
might come handily. ;-)
Not every man may like to play this role or take this kind of
"responsibility" but - hey - you will not be forced to do so. Not every
woman will want to dance with a taxi-dancer, but you don't have to
invite him and you may refuse him, if he invites you.
As I said befor: it's just a part of the big game and you may play it
or not - just as you like.
:-)
Cheers,
Melina
Melina Sed? & Detlef Engel
www.tangodesalon.de
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 13:46:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Marisa Holmes <mariholmes@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Taxi Dancers
To: Melina Sedo <melinasedo@onlinehome.de>, tango-l@mit.edu
-- Melina Sedo <melinasedo@onlinehome.de> wrote:
> A lot of men will dance with women who are not their
> first choice for
> the "common good"... This woman may not
> have been his dream-partner but it does not hurt him
> either to dance
> with her, it may even be very nice. And if he
> behaves polite and nicely
> and does not give the impression of doing it out of
> "charity", she
> will be happy to dance, other dancers may notice her
> and the general
> atmosphere will improve as nobody's sitting around
> with a sad face.
You're right to praise this behavior, although I don't
think I would call this type a "taxi dancer", which
seems to me to be defined by taking money for dancing.
(Women can also dance with the unknown or the
beginner, of course. I had an extraordinary tanda
with a guy who walked in whom we had never seen before
or since.)
In any case, you are exactly correct - inviting
someone to dance who is not dancing and who is not
necessarily your favorite dancer (but against whom you
have no specific complaint) benefits the common good.
It may also benefit the inviter - for example if the
person turns out to be able to dance, or if they
become a long-term member of your community and come
to be able to dance.
In addition, it is the type of behavior you can be
proud of at the end of the evening, which is a lot
better than walking away musing on how lucky you were
that you were able to pretend not to see the lady who
was visiting your town, whose clothing, dancing, or
physique was not exactly to your taste. A woman
formerly in our community once told my partner, in
tears, that his mother must have raised him right,
since he danced with _all_ the women. She was
pleasant, courteous, good company for conversation,
enjoyed dancing, took lessons to improve, danced at a
sort of intermediate level, followed adequately, and
had the face and figure of a middle-aged woman of
moderate weight. In short, she looked like your aunt
(if you are young) or your co-worker (if you are not).
I danced with her myself and she was OK. But she
seemed to be invisible to many of our leaders -
somehow just not as interesting at any given moment as
someone else. And she is gone - got fed up with
sitting. I'm embarrassed for the community, and sorry
that we no longer have her company.
Marisa
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 09:21:37 EDT
From: Crrtango@aol.com
Subject: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
Just another perspective on this:
Victor wrote: <I know from personal experience that it is really difficult to
get dances initially in BsAs (and sometimes in other places too!) typically
if you are not well known by the local dancers.>
Yes, and there have been horror stories of spending two weeks in BA without
dancing at all by some people. It isn't just that they don't dance with
tourists or people they don't know; it's more a question of waiting to see if you
really know how to dance tango, meaning traditional, social tango and not
performance and open embrace stuff, which is basically just showing off to them. If
that's all you do, don't expect your glances to be returned, because it will
be obvious you are a tourist. I dance and teach traditional tango ("close
embrace" for the historically challenged) and I have never had a problem getting a
partner there, although I did have to get on the floor and convince the women
that I did know how to dance. I just grabbed the nearest woman (who was a
beginner) and managed to struggle through, but at least I was able demonstrate to
those watching that I knew. Please heed what iis often repeated on this list.
Open embrace tango is not danced in the milongas there (with rare
exceptions). Don't expect to impress anyone with ganchos or back sacadas or whatever is
the step of the month. You will just look foolish and obviously be a tourist.
re taxi dancing; it is hardly a new phenomenon. There were taxi dancers here
during the big band days and is not a bad idea if you can afford it. I have
been approached about being a taxi dancer for someone who lives in Buenos Aires
and comes to New York to visit and doesn't want to sit around at the milongas
waiting to be asked. However, if you hire one, you should still know how to
dance traditional tango. The real problem is that people, in the U.S. at least,
can't even agree on all the different names for the various styles of showing
off that is passed off as tango. "Salon" and "tango liso" (which evolved
during the time of Di Sarli's orchestra and is called that because of it's elegant
smooth style - "liso" means smooth or polished) are often confused with
performance, while "close embrace" which is basically traditional tango (as is
"milonguero" with a little variation) is just considered by people here as another
style among many. Go figure!
Ironic isn't it, that all these tango stars make all this money by teaching
steps that you can't use down there. Caveat emptor.
Okay, so dance whatever you want, to whatever music you like, but don't be
surprised when you sit around at the BA milongas.
Cheers,
Charles
See what's new at
https://www.aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:29:03 -0400
From: Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
To: Crrtango@aol.com
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
I notice it's the men who are responding to this. Are we talking about
female taxi dancers, or male taxi dancers? Seems to me that it's the
women who are really stuck in BsAs, because the codes do not allow them
to ask anybody.
Crrtango@aol.com wrote:
> Just another perspective on this:
>
> Victor wrote: <I know from personal experience that it is really difficult to
> get dances initially in BsAs (and sometimes in other places too!) typically
> if you are not well known by the local dancers.>
>
--
Carol Ruth Shepherd
Arborlaw PLC
Ann Arbor MI USA
734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f
https://arborlaw.com
closings ? commercialization ? chain of title ? contracts
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:29:35 +0900
From: "Astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
To: <shepherd@arborlaw.com>, <Crrtango@aol.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
>I notice it's the men who are responding to this. Are we talking about
female taxi dancers, or male taxi dancers? Seems to me that it's the
women who are really stuck in BsAs, because the codes do not allow them
to ask anybody.
pardon me, Carol, but this one who responded was very much a woman...
I have heard it both ways- a young, pretty lady went from Tokyo to BsAs for
a week's stay (36 hours by airplane, mind you!) only to sit around and be
ignored for the first four days at the milonga.
Anybody remember Larry Carroll's reports from Argentina years ago before he
left this list? Something like "I dressed young in a light grey silk shirt,
went to a milonga full of young people and every time I thought I had caught
somebody's attention enough to give her the cabeceo, I realised she was
concentrating on looking at someone behind me. Finally I decided to prove to
them that I could dance and went onto the dance floor during the break and
performed a state-of-the-art giro con lapiz by myself with perfect balance
and suave elegance. Still, nothing..."
I have heard German men say that portenas are really strict about who they
dance with and you hardly get a chance with them, unless you are really
good, and they will brusquely turn you down if you have the nerve to ask
them directly.
Then, there is the other side: the rich aging Japanese ballerina who spent
her time in BA picking men's wandering hands off the side of her breast in
the close embrace, the other lady who was offered private lessons by
everyone who asked her to dance, the one who was told by an Argentine:"If
you want to get any dances here, you have to wear sexier clothes and show
more skin...", and the man who had a great time dancing with all his fellow
tourists...
Argentine women have told me that BA milongas can be just as bad as Tokyo,
as far as gender balance is concerned, and while a "friend" regularly dances
with them at one milonga full of people from the same age group, he will
ignore them completely the next day at another milonga where the women are
younger...
maybe people could share more stories on this horror subject? ; )
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 00:31:57 +0900
From: "Astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: [Tango-L] Fw: taxi dancers
reply-type=response
>
>>I notice it's the men who are responding to this. Are we talking about
> female taxi dancers, or male taxi dancers? Seems to me that it's the
> women who are really stuck in BsAs, because the codes do not allow them
> to ask anybody.
>
pardon me, Carol, but this one who responded was very much a woman...
I have heard it both ways- a young, pretty lady went from Tokyo to BsAs for
> a week's stay (36 hours by airplane, mind you!) only to sit around and be
> ignored for the first four days at the milonga.
> Anybody remember Larry Carroll's reports from Argentina years ago before
> he left this list? Something like "I dressed young in a light grey silk
> shirt, went to a milonga full of young people and every time I thought I
> had caught somebody's attention enough to give her the cabeceo, I realised
> she was concentrating on looking at someone behind me. Finally I decided
> to prove to them that I could dance and went onto the dance floor during
> the break and performed a state-of-the-art giro con lapiz by myself with
> perfect balance and suave elegance. Still, nothing..."
> I have heard German men say that portenas are really strict about who they
> dance with and you hardly get a chance with them, unless you are really
> good, and they will brusquely turn you down if you have the nerve to ask
> them directly.
> Then, there is the other side: the rich aging Japanese ballerina who spent
> her time in BA picking men's wandering hands off the side of her breast in
> the close embrace, the other lady who was offered private lessons by
> everyone who asked her to dance, the one who was told by an Argentine:"If
> you want to get any dances here, you have to wear sexier clothes and show
> more skin...", and the man who had a great time dancing with all his
> fellow tourists...
> Argentine women have told me that BA milongas can be just as bad as Tokyo,
> as far as gender balance is concerned, and while a "friend" regularly
> dances with them at one milonga full of people from the same age group, he
> will ignore them completely the next day at another milonga where the
> women are younger...
>
> maybe people could share more stories on this horror subject? ; )
>
>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:38:31 EDT
From: Crrtango@aol.com
Subject: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
My apologies,
I just noticed that part of the quoted phrase was deleted from my posting.
The phrase was "... it its really difficult to get dances initially in
BsAs...typically if you are not well known by the local dancers."
Charles
See what's new at
https://www.aol.com
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:42:17 -0400
From: Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
To: Astrid <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu, shepherd@arborlaw.com, crrtango@aol.com
My mistake, I wasn't reading all the emails carefully enough. Sorry--
Astrid wrote:
>> I notice it's the men who are responding to this. Are we talking about
> female taxi dancers, or male taxi dancers? Seems to me that it's the
> women who are really stuck in BsAs, because the codes do not allow them
> to ask anybody.
>
> pardon me, Carol, but this one who responded was very much a woman...
> I have heard it both ways- a young, pretty lady went from Tokyo to BsAs for
> a week's stay (36 hours by airplane, mind you!) only to sit around and be
> ignored for the first four days at the milonga.
> Anybody remember Larry Carroll's reports from Argentina years ago before he
--
Carol Ruth Shepherd
Arborlaw PLC
Ann Arbor MI USA
734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f
https://arborlaw.com
commercialization ? merchandising ? distribution
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:56:51 -0300 (ART)
From: Maria de los Angeles Olivera <ma_olivera@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
Hi everybody,
What happens in Buenos Aires is that no good dancer (either man or woman) will dance with somebody that she/he haven't seen dancing before. That means that if you want to be invited to dance at a milonga without renting a Taxi dancer, you should go to a class first (many milongas have classes before the ball) so as to meet some people who is going to stay afterwards. This is a good way to be sure that somebody will ask you to dance/ accept your invitation.
Best,
Mar?a
Crrtango@aol.com escribi?:
My apologies,
I just noticed that part of the quoted phrase was deleted from my posting.
The phrase was "... it its really difficult to get dances initially in
BsAs...typically if you are not well known by the local dancers."
Charles
See what's new at
https://www.aol.com
Los referentes m?s importantes en compra/venta de autos se juntaron:
Demotores y Yahoo!.Ahora comprar o vender tu auto es m?s f?cil.
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:31:07 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
On Oct 15, 2007, at 9:29 AM, Astrid wrote:
> I have heard German men say that portenas are really strict about
> who they
> dance with and you hardly get a chance with them, unless you are
> really
> good, and they will brusquely turn you down if you have the nerve
> to ask
> them directly.
> ...
>
> maybe people could share more stories on this horror subject? ; )
>
It's quite simple, actually.... figure out how to dance, and you will
get dances.
The foreigner guys who can't get dances simply don't know how to
dance the way the Argentine women want.
If you show up to an afternoon milonga able to dance "the way they
do", then they accept you as a tango dancer. You get the first few
dances, and the whispers go around the tables, "Ooh, check out the
new guy/girl", and they are looking right at you for a dance. You
sometimes get the surprise: "You don't dance like a foreigner", which
maybe says something about all the bad foreigners out there.
One correction. The issue isn't about being "really good". "Merely
good" is sufficient if you know how to dance appropriate to the
particular Buenos Aires milonga. Overwhelmingly, this means
milonguero or close salon, but some people claim there are a couple
milongas or practicas where other styles are appropriate.
Decent does NOT mean you have to know lots of giros and steps. Decent
means:
- Good embrace, confident movements, boldness (male and femaie)
- Ability to navigate and deal with crowded conditions
- Know the music, know the music, know the music
Notice that steps, technique and posture aren't on the list. Frankly,
a lot of Argentines are lacking in technique. But, they absolutely
know the music and the embrace. Tango is about energy, presence,
feel, musicality, not about style or steps. Steps are just the things
you do while doing tango.
I have made several trips in Buenos Aires over 12 years. I
experienced a lot of failure the first time I went down. I returned
determined to figure out how to do it right, and on subsequent trips
I have had a lot of success. It does take a few days for people to
start recognizing you.
There are usually more women at a milonga in Buenos Aires, so the men
can choose who they want, for good or shallow reasons. Some of the
guys are really, really shallow. One reason they prey on the
foreigners is the local women have stopped dancing with them. Another
reason is that they are just hustling: lessons, dates, money. Almost
all the Argentines who walk up to the table are in these categories,
hustlers, creeps or can't dance. I think this is more of a problem in
the milongas attended by lots of foreigners.
Here's a true example of rude behavior. He gives her a really good
first couple of dances. The next dance he causes her to stumble, and
at the end of the set offers his business card for tango lessons to
"help her with her problems".
Tom Stermitz
Denver & San Diego Tango Festivals
https://LaEternaMilonga.com
https://Tango.org
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 01:52:54 +0900
From: "Astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
To: "Tom Stermitz" <stermitz@tango.org>, "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
Tom wrote:
> Here's a true example of rude behavior. He gives her a really good
> first couple of dances. The next dance he causes her to stumble, and
> at the end of the set offers his business card for tango lessons to
> "help her with her problems".
this one sounds eerily familiar... I believe, I remember it from the days
when I took lots of workshops here with various visiting Argentine teachers,
and some of them would use this trick to fish for private lessons (make me
feel insecure and inadequate and then offer me a privada on better balance
etc.) , and others, once I had received a firm base in training from other
teachers, would attempt to thus "put me in my place" during a milonga to
convince me that I still had a lot to learn (from them, of course...).
Thanks, Tom, this is the first time I see my suspicions confirmed. It is so
long ago, I had almost forgotten.
>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:44:24 -0700
From: "Konstantin Zahariev" <anfractuoso@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<ade549600710151044i4d9bb95as3c61b31a64a5a828@mail.gmail.com>
On 10/15/07, Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net> wrote:
> Seems to me that it's the
> women who are really stuck in BsAs, because the codes do not allow them
> to ask anybody.
Is this really true? It seems to me the cabeceo is more or less an
equal opportunity custom since both women and men can initiate an
'invite' by staring at somebody. I realize the usual line is that only
men can invite but with cabeceo, this requires a fairly narrow
definition of 'invite'. Realistically, both women and men invite with
their eyes, though on the dance floor, after that negotiation, it may
appear as if the woman only accepts.
Since in BA the cabeceo is used extensively, if not exclusively, I am
not yet convinced that women are more stuck than the men in getting
dances.
With best regards,
Konstantin
Victoria, Canada
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 12:31:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: musette fan <musettefan@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
To: Konstantin Zahariev <anfractuoso@gmail.com>, Tango-L
<tango-l@mit.edu>
I didn't feel at all "stuck" in BA by the cabaceo, on the contrary I felt free and
much more in control of my own destiny. As you say, women can, um, encourage anyone
they want to ask them with eye contact, and in the meantime they don't have to
accept any dances at any time that they don't want to, for whatever reason.
Terri
--- Konstantin Zahariev <anfractuoso@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/15/07, Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Seems to me that it's the
> > women who are really stuck in BsAs, because the codes do not allow them
> > to ask anybody.
>
> Is this really true? It seems to me the cabeceo is more or less an
> equal opportunity custom since both women and men can initiate an
> 'invite' by staring at somebody. I realize the usual line is that only
> men can invite but with cabeceo, this requires a fairly narrow
> definition of 'invite'. Realistically, both women and men invite with
> their eyes, though on the dance floor, after that negotiation, it may
> appear as if the woman only accepts.
>
> Since in BA the cabeceo is used extensively, if not exclusively, I am
> not yet convinced that women are more stuck than the men in getting
> dances.
>
> With best regards,
>
> Konstantin
> Victoria, Canada
>
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:07:16 -0700
From: "El Mundo del Tango" <mail@elmundodeltango.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
Traditional Tango is both in open and close embrace,(V-shaped) constantly
switching between the two. The only "style" danced permanently in close
embrace(squarre) is the so called "milonguero style" , which is not
"milonguero" or "traditional" at all. It was created in the sixties and
golden age milongueros never danced it.Quite the contrary,they despise it
and called it "Caquero" or "Petitero".
Buenos Aires is a very large and diverse city. Open embrace, Salon and Nuevo
are indeed danced in many places and there is nothing foreign about them..
It all depends who you ask, where you go, when you go, with whom, the music
, floor conditions and your partner.
Back sacadas are beautifull and perfectly social if you know how to do them
and moment is right.
To argue against them only shows your own limitations and your zeal to pass
them on to your students.
In the U.S, in Buenos Aires and in Jupiter
Gabriel
----- Original Message -----
From: <Crrtango@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 6:21 AM
Subject: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
> Just another perspective on this:
>
> Victor wrote: <I know from personal experience that it is really difficult
> to
> get dances initially in BsAs (and sometimes in other places too!)
> typically
> if you are not well known by the local dancers.>
>
> Yes, and there have been horror stories of spending two weeks in BA
> without
> dancing at all by some people. It isn't just that they don't dance with
> tourists or people they don't know; it's more a question of waiting to see
> if you
> really know how to dance tango, meaning traditional, social tango and not
> performance and open embrace stuff, which is basically just showing off to
> them. If
> that's all you do, don't expect your glances to be returned, because it
> will
> be obvious you are a tourist. I dance and teach traditional tango ("close
> embrace" for the historically challenged) and I have never had a problem
> getting a
> partner there, although I did have to get on the floor and convince the
> women
> that I did know how to dance. I just grabbed the nearest woman (who was a
> beginner) and managed to struggle through, but at least I was able
> demonstrate to
> those watching that I knew. Please heed what iis often repeated on this
> list.
> Open embrace tango is not danced in the milongas there (with rare
> exceptions). Don't expect to impress anyone with ganchos or back sacadas
> or whatever is
> the step of the month. You will just look foolish and obviously be a
> tourist.
>
> re taxi dancing; it is hardly a new phenomenon. There were taxi dancers
> here
> during the big band days and is not a bad idea if you can afford it. I
> have
> been approached about being a taxi dancer for someone who lives in Buenos
> Aires
> and comes to New York to visit and doesn't want to sit around at the
> milongas
> waiting to be asked. However, if you hire one, you should still know how
> to
> dance traditional tango. The real problem is that people, in the U.S. at
> least,
> can't even agree on all the different names for the various styles of
> showing
> off that is passed off as tango. "Salon" and "tango liso" (which evolved
> during the time of Di Sarli's orchestra and is called that because of it's
> elegant
> smooth style - "liso" means smooth or polished) are often confused with
> performance, while "close embrace" which is basically traditional tango
> (as is
> "milonguero" with a little variation) is just considered by people here as
> another
> style among many. Go figure!
> Ironic isn't it, that all these tango stars make all this money by
> teaching
> steps that you can't use down there. Caveat emptor.
> Okay, so dance whatever you want, to whatever music you like, but don't be
> surprised when you sit around at the BA milongas.
> Cheers,
> Charles
>
>
> See what's new at
> https://www.aol.com
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 21:39:53 +1000
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA015141BF2F@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
I believe that was my wife's experience as well. That the cabeceo is actually a two way thing and really designed to ensure the woman is comfortable with their partner. The main difference I noticed is that women are expected to remain seated (hence their table position is critical) while we men are free to roam around like hungry wolves ;-). Actually that is for the benefit of the women as well, according to my wife, as it is murder standing in tango heels waiting for dances for any length of time apparently.
Victor
From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu [tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of musette fan [musettefan@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 5:31 AM
To: Konstantin Zahariev; Tango-L
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
I didn't feel at all "stuck" in BA by the cabaceo, on the contrary I felt free and
much more in control of my own destiny. As you say, women can, um, encourage anyone
they want to ask them with eye contact, and in the meantime they don't have to
accept any dances at any time that they don't want to, for whatever reason.
Terri
--- Konstantin Zahariev <anfractuoso@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/15/07, Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Seems to me that it's the
> > women who are really stuck in BsAs, because the codes do not allow them
> > to ask anybody.
>
> Is this really true? It seems to me the cabeceo is more or less an
> equal opportunity custom since both women and men can initiate an
> 'invite' by staring at somebody. I realize the usual line is that only
> men can invite but with cabeceo, this requires a fairly narrow
> definition of 'invite'. Realistically, both women and men invite with
> their eyes, though on the dance floor, after that negotiation, it may
> appear as if the woman only accepts.
>
> Since in BA the cabeceo is used extensively, if not exclusively, I am
> not yet convinced that women are more stuck than the men in getting
> dances.
>
> With best regards,
>
> Konstantin
> Victoria, Canada
>
Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
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Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 22:30:28 +1000
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA015141BF33@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
My wife had luck with using the classes to generate dances, but I didn't find them so useful. In fact in one class I had a woman tell me my mark was all wrong and hand me a card for tango taxis ;-). Staying in a tango house or travelling as a group with other dancers, at least initially, is a good idea. Then you can go to a milonga together and you are already set for the first few dances. As a leader it is a good idea to do the first few tandas with people you know because learning to navigate the typically more crowded floor is a bit of an issue. One big benefit of doing the class, for a leader, is that you will be dancing and getting acustomed to the floor right from the start. As the floor fills gradually you will have more chance to adjust as the conditions get more crowded. At least that was my experience at Nino Bien, for instance. I would also say that some milongas are more formal than others and there are plenty of decent followers who have been dancing one to two!
years who are prepared to take a chance on a new leader, so it is not a universal rule that you will be left hanging the whole night if you have not yet had a dance. And once you have had a couple of good nights it all gets much easier because although the tango scene is bigger in BsAs it is still a pretty small community relatively. Even in the two weeks I was there I was amazed at how often the same faces popped up. Actually the main thing that helped me was just persistence. My first night was pretty dreadful but I just kept going out to milongas and after a few nights things improved considerably. If you don't get discouraged and keep a positive attitude (important but difficult) things will improve. You probably do need a fair bit of solid social dancing in your local community (say two to three years) before you go but I am taking that as a given. I hope those observations are helpful to anyone else planning their first trip.
Victor Bennetts
From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu [tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf Of Maria de los Angeles Olivera [ma_olivera@yahoo.com.ar]
Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 1:56 AM
Subject: [Tango-L] taxi dancers
Hi everybody,
What happens in Buenos Aires is that no good dancer (either man or woman) will dance with somebody that she/he haven't seen dancing before. That means that if you want to be invited to dance at a milonga without renting a Taxi dancer, you should go to a class first (many milongas have classes before the ball) so as to meet some people who is going to stay afterwards. This is a good way to be sure that somebody will ask you to dance/ accept your invitation.
Best,
Mar?a
Crrtango@aol.com escribi?:
My apologies,
I just noticed that part of the quoted phrase was deleted from my posting.
The phrase was "... it its really difficult to get dances initially in
BsAs...typically if you are not well known by the local dancers."
Charles
See what's new at
https://www.aol.com
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