1631 Teaching from milonguero to close-embrace salon
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 12:48:04 -0700
From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Teaching from milonguero to close-embrace salon
Does anyone have any experience in helping students make the
transition from milonguero to salon dancing while avoiding the bad
habits of salon?
Like a lot of people, we went from open-embrace to close-embrace to
milonguero (apilado), and took years to undo those bad habits we
picked up from open-embrace.
We're now starting beginners with milonguero, but would like to help
them start learning close-embrace salon, which is still our forte.
We think this will give them more flexibility dancing in the
community, and they can decide what style speaks to them.
To jump-start it, we're bringing in Carolina Zokalski & Diego DiFalco
over Labor Day for workshops, starting with separate leader/follower
classes on technique.
(https://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/tango/34)
We've also been teaching low boleos into a baby forward ocho to help
with the transition.
Any other suggestions?
Trini of Pittsburgh
=====
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 16:41:09 -0400
From: Gülden Özen
<ozeng@NEURO.DUKE.EDU>
Subject: Re: Teaching from milonguero to close-embrace salon
Trini,
I think it is a little bit unfair to attribute "bad habits" to a certain
style. It is not clear to me what kind of bad habits you have picked up
from open embrace just because it was open embrace but not because you were
beginners by then.
I guess it would be more objective to consider the other variables in this
equation along with "the change from one style to the other".
Best wishes,
Gulden
At 12:48 PM 7/31/2003 -0700, Trini or Sean - PATangoS wrote:
>Does anyone have any experience in helping students make the
>transition from milonguero to salon dancing while avoiding the bad
>habits of salon?
>
>Like a lot of people, we went from open-embrace to close-embrace to
>milonguero (apilado), and took years to undo those bad habits we
>picked up from open-embrace.
>
>We're now starting beginners with milonguero, but would like to help
>them start learning close-embrace salon, which is still our forte.
>We think this will give them more flexibility dancing in the
>community, and they can decide what style speaks to them.
>
>To jump-start it, we're bringing in Carolina Zokalski & Diego DiFalco
>over Labor Day for workshops, starting with separate leader/follower
>classes on technique.
>(https://coweb.cc.gatech.edu/tango/34)
>
>We've also been teaching low boleos into a baby forward ocho to help
>with the transition.
>
>Any other suggestions?
>
>
>Trini of Pittsburgh
>
>
>=====
>PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
>Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
>https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
>
>
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 15:19:29 -0600
From: Brian Dunn <Brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: FW: [TANGO-L] Teaching from milonguero to close-embrace salon
>>>
Does anyone have any experience in helping students make the
transition from milonguero to salon dancing while avoiding the bad
habits of salon?
<<<
We've worked with many people making this transition.
In our experience, the biggest issues are
- both partners learning to maintain one's own axis. This is especially
important for followers, who often seem to have adapted bent-to-the-side
body positions, perhaps as a way of preserving social space for their heads
and faces in a beginner's apilado approach to the close embrace.
- follower's learning to take bigger, equal-sized steps in the turn, around
the leader, with clean full pivots into the back step of the turn.
- learning to experience the connection "metaphysically", instead of
benefitting from all the body-to-body contact of milonguero. This is a
different kind of connection, but paradoxically, we note that it can be just
as strong, perhaps because it is reinforced by the visual impact of seeing
more of your partner (our sensory input is 70% visual, after all).
The good news is that the first two of these can be trained separately, as
individual skills, in non-partnered group exercises.
Daniel Trenner's whole series of beginner tango videos, especially the
3-tape series with Brooke Burdette from 1996-97, provide a great starting
point, because of his clear methodology and comprehensive approach to the
possibilities of basic material. People already experienced with milonguero
seem to adapt readily to this material. The "practice frame" used in these
tapes is often best modified by having the leader initially use no hands,
while the follower has her hands on the leaders shoulders or on the leader's
pectorals (shoulders are better for rotating lead & follow within a couple!
;> ).
In our expereince, the size of the embrace should be as close as possible
while still allowing room for salon vocabulary - which for us is the
distance specified by having the partners touch the points of their hips
together while facing the same direction, then turning to take up a more
normal embrace at this distance. From this position either leg of either
partner has the ability to go completely forward or completely back after a
90-degree pivot from normal embrace, without being hindered by the other
partner's leg. Many salon dancers dance much further apart than this, which
in our experience reduces the power of the connection.
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
1(303)938-0716
https://www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 14:56:56 -0700
From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Teaching from milonguero to close-embrace salon
I was referring to "bad habits" such as brutal leads with the arms,
auto-ochoing, losing connection, looking at the feet (impossible in
apilado), and followers not having intention to move (which
encourages leaders to develop brutal leads). These pop up all the
time with beginning salon students, but not nearly as much with
beginning milonguero students. Milonguero leaders seem to accept
responsibility for the dance much earlier than salon leaders, making
them more sensitive to the follower's axis. This has been our
experience anyway. Granted, we haven't tried teaching salon to
novice with our new knowlege of milonguero, but we're unlikely to do
so.
Private and public comments on this topic converge on balance on
one's axis and turns as being the crucial areas to address. This
also confirms our suspicions. So our second day with Diego &
Carolina will focus on that (first day is basic technique).
Thanks everyone for your comments!
Trina from Pittsburgh
--- G|lden_Vzen <ozeng@NEURO.DUKE.EDU> wrote:
> Trini,
> I think it is a little bit unfair to attribute "bad habits" to a
> certain
> style. It is not clear to me what kind of bad habits you have
> picked up
> from open embrace just because it was open embrace but not because
> you were
> beginners by then.
> I guess it would be more objective to consider the other variables
> in this
> equation along with "the change from one style to the other".
> Best wishes,
>
> Gulden
=====
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
