2208 teaching navigation
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 09:15:29 +0100
From: Bilal Barakat <bilalbarakat@WEB.DE>
Subject: teaching navigation
A method that a couple of my teachers used was to create what they
called "the volcano" in the middle of the dance floor, e.g. with shoes
or chairs or whatever. This was a forbidden zone and everyone was
forced to stay in lanes around the outside of the floor. Then they'd
constrain the floor size further, this time from the outside, e.g. by
moving chairs and tables inwards, until the available space was really
quite crowded no matter how few couples there were.
Then take away all the obstacles but ask people to continue behaving
like they had to when they were restricted.
This actually doesn't just help with navigation but with musicality as
well. To this purpose at the extreme they had 10 couples dance on
somewhat less than 4 sqm, and it completely took the leaders mind off
thinking about figures and steps (which were out of the question
anyway) and focus entirely on the partner and the music. We also had to
get onto this floor couple by couple with proper etiquette, i.e.
waiting for an opening, claiming it decisively and setting off in the
line of dance.
Can't tell you how much the quality of dancing improved after we were
"released" back onto the whole floor... :)
Abrazos,
Bilal.
> Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2004 10:52:30 -0800
> From: Marisa Holmes <mariholmes@YAHOO.COM>
> Subject: How do you have "that talk" with your guests and students?
>
> Our nice milonga was not so nice over the last
> weekend. Navigation, never wonderful, was at an
> all-time low. We had new leaders walking against the
> line of dance. We had experienced leaders pausing for
> five or six measures while traffic built up behind
> them, then suddenly rushing across the center of the
> floor. We had experienced followers dancing with
> leaders known to be unreliable - and yet throwing high
> boleos instead of keeping their feet low. We had
> several more leaders join the usual crowd that dances
> in the middle of the floor, where they talk, "teach",
> and shoot out into the line of dance unpredictably.
> We had a crowd of leaders who feel deeply in touch
> with the music - but who ignore the other dancers. We
> had experienced leaders insist on following patterns
> through to the bitter end - and then complaining about
> the folks who got in their way.
>
> This is a nice crowd of people - and many of them see
> how inconvenient and unpleasant it makes it when folks
> don't dance in the ronda - but somehow it just doesn't
> get through to them that it is they themselves who
> must do something different.
>
> So - what is the solution? I have read on the list
> about workshops in navigation: what points did the
> instructors cover? What strategies have local
> teachers used to teach and reinforce good navigation
> skills? Who has successfully gotten an individual in
> your community to dance in a more social and
> responsible way - and what did you say? What can the
> organizers of a milonga do if the situation has gotten
> out of hand - either one day or over time?
>
> Still rubbing the place I got kicked,
> Marisa
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 03:51:29 -0500
From: bailadora2000@EXCITE.COM
Subject: Re: teaching navigation
I forgot who wrote it, but someone said:
"A method that a couple of my teachers used was to create what they
called "the volcano" in the middle of the dance floor, e.g. with shoes
or chairs or whatever. This was a forbidden zone and everyone was
forced to stay in lanes around the outside of the floor. Then they'd
constrain the floor size further, this time from the outside, e.g. by
moving chairs and tables inwards, until the available space was really
quite crowded no matter how few couples there were.
Then take away all the obstacles but ask people to continue behaving
like they had to when they were restricted."
I don't think this works. That's the same concept that some try to say for Ballroom dancing. Dance floors are not race tracks or skating rinks. The middle of the floor will be used and should be. It's not a matter of staying on the outside of the floor all the time. If that was the case, only so many people could fit on a floor at a time, and there would be more congestion. Floorcraft is a matter of knowing when to be in the middle of the floor and when to move out of it and go with traffic, when to move around people and when you can use a moment to elaborate a movement. It's completely about being aware of what's going on around you while protecting your partner. This is one of the hardest things a leader has to learn how to deal with...and it will inevitably take time to learn and practice. And I definately don't think any follower should criticize floorcraft of the leaders...because I think this is the hardest thing in dancing and you never fully understand it until you try it. As for teaching it, other than teaching the correct direction of line of dance, setting up non-moving objects on the floor never works, because that's not how a dance floor moves. It's like the difference between driving on a test course with stationary obstacles and driving in the Indie500.
Nicole
Miami
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 07:35:23 -0800
From: Marisa Holmes <mariholmes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: teaching navigation
--- bailadora2000@EXCITE.COM wrote:
> ... someone said:
> "A method that a couple of my teachers used was to
> create what they called "the volcano" ...
> I don't think this works. ...
> The middle of the floor will be used and should be.
I have seen the "volcano" make some improvement during
a class for people who have been dancing for a number
of months. I don't know whether the benefit carries
over to the milonga. Have other people known this
technique to work or not work?
I have seen situations where the middle of the room
was a useful space, but it creates a problem when some
dancers occupy it continuously except when they
suddenly dart out into the ronda. In addition, if it
is always full of folks who prefer it, it ceases to be
a useful space for others who might occasionally find
it nice to swing into.
> And I definately don't think any follower should
> criticize floorcraft of the leaders...because I
think
> this is the hardest thing in dancing and you never
> fully understand it until you try it.
I don't think I'm with you here. I think it's
reasonable for any member of a community to comment on
problems. In particular, I think it's eminently
reasonable for the followers, who under the conditions
I described are being used as clubs and bumpers (and
who are being injured) to decry a lack of navigational
skills. It would be reasonable for them also to
refuse to dance with leaders who often involve them in
accidents, but the sex ratios are often such that that
is not an option if one wishes to dance.
In any case, I started this thread most recently, and
although I am female, and although I was knocked
around while following, I also led at that milonga
(and I was not involved in a single collision while
leading). I agree with you that floorcraft is hard,
and that it takes a long time to learn. But I think I
do understand something about it. For starts, I
understand that it makes it very difficult to lead
well while other leaders are being jerks all around
you.
It's fine and well to say that you have to learn to
deal with the unexpected, but heedless navigation on
the part of one leader makes it increasingly likely
that someone else will lead inconsiderately. For one,
some leaders are always dancing at the edge of their
ability to navigate. I understand that this is
exciting and that the adrenalin rush is very pleasant
for some people (and they drive that way too!). But
it means that if someone else fouls up the flow, the
person who is playing on the edge may well have cut it
too close. So the problem escalates as a series of
leaders take evasive action, which incidentally screws
up someone else.
There is also the problem of enacting while dancing a
sort of macho attitude of having a right to a piece of
the floor, and a right to show off (or to show off
one's follower). I am sure most of us have seen that
this attitude is contagious. Even I, not troubled
with an adrenaline addiction or whatever it is that
drives this sort of competitiveness, have been cut off
and in a bit found that I was working on how to
inconvenience the dude that did it. I'm not proud of
it, and I quit when I understood that I had come to be
doing something radically different from trying to
show my follower a good time, but I understand the
urge.
This means that bad navigation is a community problem.
Bad navigation leads to more - and worse - navigation.
Phil, Bilal, Melina, and Janis have given us some
ideas - thank you! Others?
Marisa
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 11:51:38 -0600
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: teaching navigation
We have a great student in town who is wonderfully proactive. When a teacher
teaches a complicated, long pattern with no "out options" he always asks "So
how do you do that in line of dance?"
My suggestion is: Students, do this as a favor to your teachers, as well as
the other students. It pays you back as well.
Marisa, thanks for the comprehensive list of problems!
Lois
Minneapolis
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 17:49:29 -0700
From: Rick McGarrey <rickmcg@FLASH.NET>
Subject: teaching navigation
The tension between social dancers and performance style dancers goes on and on
outside of Buenos Aires. But in BA performers dance all the time in milongas
with few problems. Some are accomplished social dancers who get into the flow
and mix it up. Others are less experienced, so they dance carefully to avoid
bothering other people. The thing is that they know when to perform and when
not to. In the U.S. even the best milongas seem to have a few people who just
don't get it. And in some places the posing and leg throwing can become almost
intolerable.
Part of the problem in the U.S. is that some people watch shows and movies and
use them as a model. But some blame also rests with the teachers. Portenos in
BsAs have a very realistic view of tango. They appreciate performing, but they
also know it's difficult, and that it doesn't pay very well. So, other than
among people with serious aspirations for the stage, there isn't much demand
for learning a tango that can't be danced in the milongas. It's puzzling that
in the U.S. where the opportunity to perform is almost zero that there is still
large attendance in classes that teach things that few can ever use. Maybe
each of these classes should begin with a disclaimer:
"Notice: what we are going to teach is fun and challenging... but there are
limited opportunities to do it outside of class. You can do it at home, but
the odds that anyone will ever pay you, or even want to watch you do it, are
astronomically small. And if you try it at a milonga, you won't make any
friends."
I think driving a car in traffic is a good analogy for social tango dancing.
First you need to know the rules of the road. After that it just takes time to
learn to move smoothly and maintain the right distances without disrupting
things. Since the joy of social tango is in expressing the music for yourself
and your partner within the space available, a good first technical skill to
learn is to get used to a small space. Try practicing in a "corralito" (a
baby's play pen). Put four chairs around a space. Practice dancing everything
within this space (tango, vals, even milonga). Eventually, you may be able to
shrink it to only 3 ft. X 3 ft. (advanced!). Do giros, ochos, whatever you
want to do. The milongueros call it dancing on a "baldosa" (a single floor
tile). Step selection may be limited at first, and it requires a different
technique- but you will get better. If you can master it, you'll have a skill
that is greatly respected in the milongas. Here is the most important part:
It is not just a trick! By "master" it, I mean you and your partner should
really be able to enjoy the music and the connection. You should be so
comfortable and having so much fun with the cadences of feet and the movement
of the bodies that you can truly enjoy yourselves. I won't pretend that it is
always more fun than dancing with unlimited space, but it is very nice in it's
own way. You won't feel the need to barge out of tight spots, and it can add
subtlety, balance, control, and new musical expression to the rest of your
tango.
A couple of more things about navigation. People have said that "milonguero -
close embrace" means taking small steps. This isn't true. I can think of
several very good milongueos who take huge steps. A mix of lengths works
great, and for very good navigation the ability to take one (or several) very
large surging steps with your partner is very valuable for moving smoothly and
efficiently into empty spaces on crowded floors. Finally, I have found that if
you dance with lots and lots of giros (turns) when it's crowded, you can see
surrounding traffic easily, and you will always be ready to move in any
direction to take advantage of unused space. But to make it work, you should
be able to do smooth giros in both directions, maintain chest contact, and be
able to turn around a single axis. If you separate, or if either partner
becomes the center of the turn with the other circling around, it takes more
space and it doesn't work as well. For me, dancing smooth close giros to a fast
Biagi vals, surrounded by milongueros who are dancing the same way has to be
one of the most exciting things. It's like being inside a swirling storm of
tango music.
Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:44:21 -0800
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Teaching navigation
Rick wrote:
"...I
won't pretend that it is
always more fun than dancing with unlimited space, but
it is very nice in it's
own way. You won't feel the need to barge out of
tight spots, and it can add
subtlety, balance, control, and new musical expression
to the rest of your
tango..."
I've been having an interesting experience recently
trying to dance again while recovering from a broken
ankle. I acquired a new respect for the ability to
dance in small spaces, with a twist. With the right
leg in a cast up to my knee, I pretty much had to
balance just on my left leg (the strength in which has
improved greatly as a result of having to live almost
exclusively on it alone for weeks). My partners were
obviously aware of my limitations at the moment and
were incredibly creative in being able to invent
wonderful movements while dancing practically in one
spot. Talk about dancing on a tile! (Of course they
picked a spot that wouldn't impinge on the line of
dance!!) But there was the the music, and there was
the connection. The rest didn't matter much. It has
really been a lot of fun and will, I'm sure, have a
profound impact on the rest of my tango. And maybe
theirs.
Luda
=====
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:29:36 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: teaching navigation
> "Notice: what we are going to teach is fun and challenging... but there
are
> limited opportunities to do it outside of class. You can do it at home,
but
> the odds that anyone will ever pay you, or even want to watch you do it,
are
> astronomically small. And if you try it at a milonga, you won't make any
> friends."
>
I once saw a disclaimer on a German website, the link to which I found on an
old tango-l posting. The teacher said:"We can only teach you how to dance
socially (or something). Please keep in mind that stage performers have gone
through years of professional dance training very unlike our weekly 90
minute practise. However, if you still want to learn to dance like a
professional, we can design an individual training programme for you ."
An honest statement. However, not keeping silent about the effort necessary
to really learn how to perform those fantasia steps correctly, might work
against the commercial interests of some studios, and keeping up their
students illusions may be more profitable.
I have been invited to a couple of milongas visited by people who attend
such teachers' lessons only, and they were not very much fun. It was
actually kind of scary to keep going out on the dance floor. At one of those
big parties the problem of whether to risk more bruises or not solved itself
when my partner said:"I am not going out there anymore. I will not dance on
that floor. I cannot move forward, backward, to the left or to the right.
Whereever I try to go, somebody is either blocking the way, just trying to
overtake me, or about to bump into me." He spent the rest of the highly
expensive evening watching from the sidelines while I nursed a cup of cold
tea..
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:04:51 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: teaching navigation
Astrid wrote:
>[O]n a German website, ... [t]he teacher said: "We can only teach you
>how to dance socially (or something). Please keep in mind that stage
>performers have gone through years of professional dance training
>very unlike our weekly 90 minute practise. However, if you still want
>to learn to dance like a professional, we can design an individual
>training programme for you."
Seems like recent discussion would suggest that some teachers should offer
a somewhat different disclaimer: "We only teach Argentine tango material
for the stage, but it is unlikely that you will master it sufficiently
well to actually dance on stage. The material we teach may not be
suitable for social dancing, but we have at least one student who can
dance socially (although we suspect he may have taken lessons from another
instructor to develop his navigational skills). We assume no
responsibility for how you apply the material we have taught you,
particularly if you look bad or cause collisions. If you do cause
collisions and live in a city where where people are pugilists, you may
get punched. If you cause collisions in a city where people are litigous,
you may be sued."
;-)
--Steve (de Tejas)
Dancing is less expensive than therapy unless you take extensive lessons
and insist on a new pair of Wolford stockings everytime you dance.
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 01:16:36 -0800
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: teaching navigation
Steve wrote:
"...Seems like recent discussion would suggest that
some
teachers should offer
a somewhat different disclaimer: "We only teach
Argentine tango material
for the stage, but it is unlikely that you will master
it sufficiently
well to actually dance on stage. The material we
teach may not be
suitable for social dancing, but we have at least one
student who can
dance socially (although we suspect he may have taken
lessons from another
instructor to develop his navigational skills). We
assume no
responsibility for how you apply the material we have
taught you,
particularly if you look bad or cause collisions. If
you do cause
collisions and live in a city where where people are
pugilists, you may
get punched. If you cause collisions in a city where
people are litigous,
you may be sued."
;-)
First, after I picked myself up off the floor from
falling down with laughter, I would give you a great
big hug and kiss, if your wife permitted it. Then I
would ask her to help me look for a great big rock
upon which these words could be engraved!
Luda
=====
