354  Tinny/muddy low-fidelity tangos

Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 03:00:05 -0900
From: Dan Boccia <redfox@ALASKA.NET>
Subject: Tinny/muddy low-fidelity tangos

Rick writes:



{"I've listened to enough less-than-ideal fidelity classic era Tango to last
me a life time. Listening to more of it or having someone try to explain why
they love dancing to it is not going to change my mind about it."}



I agree that low-fidelity tangos can be a real drag. I'm not sure what
exactly you mean by low-fidelity, though. There have been a lot of very
nicely re-mastered releases of classic tango music from the 40s lately that
sound MUCH better than the older compilations, say, by El Bandoneon, that
were released in the late 80's early 90's. Many of these newer releases
have no stylus hiss and much more definition and overall depth and presence.
Several of us have posted reviews of these albums on this list. Most people
who hear this music are surprised to hear that it was recorded in the 40's.



{"I've heard Tango music of a much higher fidelity from I'm assuming the
40s,
50s & 60s that is of a high-fidelity & does not sound tinny or muddy."}



The "muddy" comment sounds like it could be a sound equipment/speaker
placement problem. If the speaker placement within the room is incorrect,
even very modern music can be made to sound muddy and dull, and if someone
has an itchy finger on the EQ, anything can happen, most usually for the
worse. If the speaker is old and worn out, it won't respond well. I've
seen a lot of very poor sound equipment and setups and it amazes me that
anyone who runs a regular milonga or dance studio would overlook this very
important consideration. A short consultation with a qualified sound
engineer or a little bit of simple research about sound setup will make most
any room sound much better, even using the existing equipment. It makes a
huge difference.



{"Perhaps its possible to just informally survey everyone that dances over a
period of time as to what they want to hear & format the evening's music
accordingly. Beginners or anyone that wanted to, could hear different
selections of music, lower fidelity & high-fidelity Tango
music, as well as non-Tango music, before making their decision."}



The informal surveys are conducted every night all around the world as the
DJs play music for the dancers. There's no need for any further surveying.
When the dancers dance energetically, obviously the music is working. If
the dancers sit down or leave, the music isn't working for them. The
dancers tell the DJ directly how they feel about the music that is being
played. They vote with their feet. I listen to this more than I listen to
all the commentary outside of the milongas. It seems to me, from dancing
and DJing experience both, that a small handful of carefully selected modern
tangos or non-tangos *may* really make a good evening special. More than
that, and it becomes something other than a tango dance. If the modern
tangos and non-tangos would keep everyone dancing energetically all night,
I'd play them gladly. But they don't - a whole bunch of us have been there
and tried that, and when everyone quits dancing, it tells us to go back to
the classic orchestras, and to use the other stuff sparingly and with care,
if at all. Most of us don't come to this conclusion just out of the blue or
because we're hard-core golden-age music fans - the conclusion has been
reached after a lot of experimenting and paying attention to the dancers'
energy on the floor. If a bunch of scratchy, low-fidelity tangos are being
played, the DJ is simply not concerned with the dancers or has not taken the
time or effort/expense to find the good music - as you said, it's definitely
out there.

Sometimes, dancers get fooled because a DJ will play a couple of modern
tangos or non-tangos, and the energy within the room will go up, because the
songs were well-selected. Then the DJ will go back to the classics. A few
dancers might wonder, why can't we have more of the modern stuff? The
answer is that they sounded great at the time, because they were
well-selected and only a few of them were played, within a matrix of really
good classics. If 5-10 of them had been played at once, however, the energy
of the milonga may have died - most of the DJs have experimented with this
and found that it doesn't work. A few very rare DJs spend a lot of time
scouring around for good modern and non-tangos and they can make it work for
a while, but they also know that the classic tangos are the real meat of the
night.

Dan

Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2001 07:38:27 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Tinny/muddy low-fidelity tangos

Dan Boccia wrote:

[T]he classic tangos are the real meat of the night.

I agree, gimmick or modern-era recordings cannot be used very extensively
to punch up the music for the evening. The classics have become the
standards for dancing because they really are the best suited recordings
for tango dancing. More than 6500 individual tangos were recorded in the
early years and the golden era. Culling through these recordings to find
the classics for tango dancing has created a list of about 200 recordings
that are played for dancing with great regularity.

>There have been a lot of very nicely re-mastered releases of classic tango
>music from the 40s lately that sound MUCH better than the older

compilations,

>... that were released in the late 80's early 90's. Many of these newer

releases

>have no stylus hiss and much more definition and overall depth and

presence.

>Several of us have posted reviews of these albums on this list. Most

people

>who hear this music are surprised to hear that it was recorded in the

40's.

Absolutely. The newer releases in the RCA 100 Aņos series and on the Solo
Tango label have excellent sound quality. The releases on the EMI
Reliquias and Tango Argentino labels are quite good. There is no longer a
reason for a DJ to reach for a low fidelity El Bandoneon CD of Troilo. I
have tried to take fidelity into account in making recommendations about
tandas for DJs to play and for building a collection of tango dance music
<https://www.tejastango.com/>. I also have found Mark Celaya of Classic
Tango <https://www.classictango.com/> to offer excellent advice when it
comes to selecting the best music for tango dancing. He knows the
recordings and sound fidelity extremely well, and he has a genunine
interest in seeing that his customers are pleased.

>The "muddy" comment sounds like it could be a sound equipment/speaker
>placement problem.

I agree. When working with a lower fidelity medium, such as old
recordings, some people seem to take the attitude that sound quality in the
equipment is of lesser importance. In fact, the opposite is true. One
should look at each piece of equipment as an opportunity for the sound
quality to be degraded. The music can sound relatively dull for a variety
of reasons. If the DJ is playing cassettes that are are worn out or using
a tape player that needs cleaning and demagnitizing the result is a muddy,
dull sound. Ripping music to MP3 files at too low a rate is another way to
degrade sound quality. Old CD players can also be of lower fidelity.

I have also found that the mix of music also affects the psychological
perception of sound quality. If I play too many cuts in a row that have a
similar musical sound, the dullness of the recordings can really stand
out.... This is particularly true when using any of the pre-golden era
recordings--nearly all of which have very poor sound quality.

If the required standard of fidelity is live music, I have heard only a few
recordings that come relatively close to matching the incredible dynamics
of live tango music: Daniel Barenboim, Tangos Among Friends and the Chesky
release, Tango Bar, which unfortunately were not recorded with dancing in
mind...; and Dan Diaz, Live at Stanford University, which I recommend. The
RCA recording of Forever Tango is a little farther off the mark.

If the required standard of fidelity is that found on the recordings of
contemporary groups such as Sexteto Sur or Sexteto Mayor, then one must be
relatively content to dance to music that has a very progressive sound with
a lot of rubato playing. Dancers tend to prefer these recordings as extras
and want the bulk of their music to have the more solid rhythms found on
earlier, golden-era recordings.

If the required standard of fidelity is Osvaldo Pugliese's CD Ausencia or
Calo's CD Al Compas del Corazon, with a little work and care, it should be
quite possible to play an entire evening's worth of music without playing
anything of lower fidelity.

If the required standard of fidelity is dancer acceptance, the DJ can get
instant feedback by watching the dancers.

As Dan wrote:

>When the dancers dance energetically, obviously the music is working. If
>the dancers sit down or leave, the music isn't working for them. The
>dancers tell the DJ directly how they feel about the music that is being
>played. They vote with their feet.

If the milongas in a particular city seem to fail to meet dancers
expectations for music selection and sound quality, a new milonga with a
new, smarter DJ, using better equipment should easily steal all the dancers
and put the old milongas out of business. Failing to start a new milonga
to preserve a sense of unity within the community is not really good for
the community's longer-term interests. Dull music drains energy from a
tango community and keeps it from growing.

With best regards,
Steve de Tejas

Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/
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