2667 to understand or not to understand (was:
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:39:48 -0700
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: to understand or not to understand (was:
Charles wrote, among other things:
"Not all are about romance or the intense tango
connection between two people.
Some are pretty corny; others are profound; some are
about your mother; some are
about your buddies hanging out on the street."
Not to mention insulting to women and downright
raunchy. You don't want to know the lyrics.
When I first got interested in tango I happened to be
talking to a knowledgeable tanguero, right here on
this very list, who is a walking encyclopedia of tango
music and lyrics. (Alas, he is no longer on the list.)
Anyway, one time early on he asked me why women were
attracted to tango because some of the lyrics were so
awful. And I said, simply because that was true for
me, they love the music, and mercifully don't
understand the lyrics.
Luda
Luda
=====
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:28:23 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: to understand or not to understand (was:
Charles wrote, among other things:
"Not all are about romance or the intense tango
connection between two people.
Some are pretty corny; others are profound; some are
about your mother; some are
about your buddies hanging out on the street."
Luda wrote:
Not to mention insulting to women and downright
raunchy. You don't want to know the lyrics.
When I first got interested in tango I happened to be
talking to a knowledgeable tanguero, right here on
this very list, who is a walking encyclopedia of tango
music and lyrics. (Alas, he is no longer on the list.)
Anyway, one time early on he asked me why women were
attracted to tango because some of the lyrics were so
awful. And I said, simply because that was true for
me, they love the music, and mercifully don't
understand the lyrics.
My thoughts:
I find difficult to reconcile Charles' and Luda's experience with my own on
tango lyrics. As time goes by I have developed a preference for certain
singers and orchestras. I enjoy listening to tango lyrics as they are
interpreted by Roberto Rufino and the Orquesta de Carlos De Sarli, Walter
"El Chino" LaBorde and Orquesta Tipica Porten~a Sans Souci, Floreal Ruiz,
Roberto Chanel among others. To this date I have yet to find tangos with
questionable lyrics from my favorite singers that do not affect me or my
dance in a positive way. I do not seek to comprehend tango lyrics for their
message, but rather for the impact or effect the words or phrases may
inspire me to feel at certain times in a tango song. I do not think I would
have time to analyze the message to see if it makes sense or affects me in a
negative way.
Regards,
Bruno
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 00:47:44 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: to understand or not to understand (was:
Bruno wrote:
I find difficult to reconcile Charles' and Luda's experience with my own on
tango lyrics. To this date I have yet to find tangos with
questionable lyrics from my favorite singers that do not affect me or my
dance in a positive way.
Same here. I love tango lyrics. I will not pretend that I understand or know
each and everyone of them, but the ones I know, in original or in
translation, have touched me. I cannot find anything questionable or
offensive about them, neither to me as a woman nor to anyone else.
Naturally, Germans do not have either a Victorian nor a Puritan background,
so I may see things differently some American women. Actually, the other
day,the Japan Times brought some headlines on the cover page (why?, I
wonder), that statistics showed that the US is more conservative than
China,when it comes to sexual mores,and that France is much more tolerant.
The small print below said, that Germans actually were on top of the list,
above France, when it comes to being tolerant and thinking liberally about
those things.
Please do keep in mind,that the reason tango lyrics contain lunfardo is
because many of them were written by compadritos.
Many of them dealing with poverty, prostitution, adultery and such. But many
of them also express the compassion felt by a man for a poor young girl who
has no other means of survival left than selling herself. Or the pain of a
man who loved a girl, who he rediscovers dressed in cheap clothes in some
bar, where she works, and he knows, he has lost her forever, and she
probably won't live long. I find this touching, rather than offensive.
My favourite, however, are those texts written by Discepolo, the really
dark, existentialist stuff.
Astrid
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 09:25:12 -0700
From: Jean-Marie Herve Michel <jhmichel@STANFORD.EDU>
Subject: Re: to understand or not to understand (was:
what was the gil dying off..
h
Quoting astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>:
> Bruno wrote:
> I find difficult to reconcile Charles' and Luda's experience with my
own
> on
> tango lyrics. To this date I have yet to find tangos with
> questionable lyrics from my favorite singers that do not affect me or
my
> dance in a positive way.
>
> Same here. I love tango lyrics. I will not pretend that I understand
or
> know
> each and everyone of them, but the ones I know, in original or in
> translation, have touched me. I cannot find anything questionable or
> offensive about them, neither to me as a woman nor to anyone else.
> Naturally, Germans do not have either a Victorian nor a Puritan
> background,
> so I may see things differently some American women. Actually, the
other
> day,the Japan Times brought some headlines on the cover page (why?, I
> wonder), that statistics showed that the US is more conservative than
> China,when it comes to sexual mores,and that France is much more
> tolerant.
> The small print below said, that Germans actually were on top of the
> list,
> above France, when it comes to being tolerant and thinking liberally
> about
> those things.
> Please do keep in mind,that the reason tango lyrics contain lunfardo
is
> because many of them were written by compadritos.
> Many of them dealing with poverty, prostitution, adultery and such.
But
> many
> of them also express the compassion felt by a man for a poor young
girl
> who
> has no other means of survival left than selling herself. Or the pain
of
> a
> man who loved a girl, who he rediscovers dressed in cheap clothes in
> some
> bar, where she works, and he knows, he has lost her forever, and she
> probably won't live long. I find this touching, rather than offensive.
> My favourite, however, are those texts written by Discepolo, the
really
> dark, existentialist stuff.
>
> Astrid
>
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:48:14 EDT
From: Mallpasso@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: to understand or not to understand (was:
If I were to guess, probably from a sexually transmitted disease or murdered
by another jealous lover. Buenos Aires was a nasty place to live during those
times.
el bandito de tango.
In a message dated 8/21/2004 09:27:32 Pacific Standard Time,
jhmichel@STANFORD.EDU writes:
what was the gil dying off..
h
Quoting astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>:
> Bruno wrote:
> I find difficult to reconcile Charles' and Luda's experience with my
own
> on
> tango lyrics. To this date I have yet to find tangos with
> questionable lyrics from my favorite singers that do not affect me or
my
> dance in a positive way.
>
> Same here. I love tango lyrics. I will not pretend that I understand
or
> know
> each and everyone of them, but the ones I know, in original or in
> translation, have touched me. I cannot find anything questionable or
> offensive about them, neither to me as a woman nor to anyone else.
> Naturally, Germans do not have either a Victorian nor a Puritan
> background,
> so I may see things differently some American women. Actually, the
other
> day,the Japan Times brought some headlines on the cover page (why?, I
> wonder), that statistics showed that the US is more conservative than
> China,when it comes to sexual mores,and that France is much more
> tolerant.
> The small print below said, that Germans actually were on top of the
> list,
> above France, when it comes to being tolerant and thinking liberally
> about
> those things.
> Please do keep in mind,that the reason tango lyrics contain lunfardo
is
> because many of them were written by compadritos.
> Many of them dealing with poverty, prostitution, adultery and such.
But
> many
> of them also express the compassion felt by a man for a poor young
girl
> who
> has no other means of survival left than selling herself. Or the pain
of
> a
> man who loved a girl, who he rediscovers dressed in cheap clothes in
> some
> bar, where she works, and he knows, he has lost her forever, and she
> probably won't live long. I find this touching, rather than offensive.
> My favourite, however, are those texts written by Discepolo, the
really
> dark, existentialist stuff.
>
> Astrid
>
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 02:15:45 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: to understand or not to understand (was:
>
Rara,
como encendida,
te halle bebiendo,
linda y fatal;
bebias,
y en el fragor del champan
loca reias,
por no llorar...
Pena
me dio encontrarte
pues al mirarte
yo vi brillar
tus ojos
con un electrico ardor,
tus bellos ojos
que tanto adore.
Esta noche, amiga mia,
con alcohol nos embriagamos;
que me importa que se rian
y nos llamen los mareados.
Cada cual tiene sus penas
y nosotros las tenemos.
Esta noche beberemos
porque ya no volveremos
a vernos mas...
Hoy vas a entrar en mi pasado,
en el pasado de mi vida.
Tres cosas lleva mi alma herida:
Amor, Pesar, Dolor.
Hoy vas a entrar en mi pasado,
hoy nuevas sendas tomaremos.
Que grande ha sido nuestro amor
y, sin embargo, ay,
mira lo que quedo!
Strange,
as if lit up,
I found you drinking,
pretty and ill fated;
You were drinking,
and in the din of the champagne
crazily you laughed,
so as not to cry...
Pity
I felt at finding you
because looking at you
I saw your eyes
shine
with an electric fire,
your beautiful eyes
that I adored so much.
Tonight, my friend,
with alcohol we're getting drunk;
I don't care if they laugh
and call us "tipsy."
Everyone has their sorrows
and we have ours.
Tonight we will drink
because we won't ever
see each other again...
Today you will enter my past,
in the past of my life.
Three things bears my wounded soul:
Love, Regret, Pain.
Today you'll enter my past,
today we'll follow new paths.
How great our love has been
and, yet, ow,
look what's left!
German and Portuguese translation, from Tango Rosetta:
Die Trunkenen Os tontos
Rara, como encendida, te halle bebiendo, linda y fatal; bebias, y en el
fragor del champan loca reias, por no llorar... Merkwurdig, wie brennend,
fand ich dich trinkend, hubsch und fatal; Du trankst gerade, und in dem
Prickeln des Champagners lacheltest Du verruckt, um nicht zu weinen...
Estranha, acesa, te achei bebendo, linda e fatal; bebias e, ao estouro do
champanhe, louca, rias para nao chorar...
Pena me dio encontrarte pues al mirarte yo vi brillar tus ojos con un
electrico ardor, tus bellos ojos que tanto adore. Es tat mir leid, denn
als ich Dich antraf, sah ich Deine Augen mit einer elektrischen Leidenschaft
glanzen, Deine hubschen Augen, die ich so liebte. Me deu pena
encontrar-te, pois ao te olhar vi brilhar teus olhos com um ardor eletrico,
teus belos olhos que tanto adorei.
Esta noche, amiga mia, con alcohol nos embriagamos; que me importa que se
rian y nos llamen los mareados. Cada cual tiene sus penas y nosotros las
tenemos. Esta noche beberemos porque ya no volveremos a vernos mas...
Diese Nacht, meine Freundin, werden wir uns mit Alkohol berauschen; es ist
mir egal, wenn die Leute lachen und uns die Trunkenen nennen. Jeder hat sein
Leid und wir haben unseres. Diese Nacht werden wir trinken, weil wir uns
nicht wieder sehen werden... Esta noite, minha amiga, com alcool nos
embriagamos; pouco importa que riam e nos chamem de tontos. Cada qual tem
suas penas e nos as temos. Esta noite beberemos porque ja nao voltaremos
mais a nos ver...
Hoy vas a entrar en mi pasado, en el pasado de mi vida. Tres cosas lleva mi
alma herida: Amor, Pesar, Dolor. Hoy vas a entrar en mi pasado, hoy nuevas
sendas tomaremos. Que grande ha sido nuestro amor y, sin embargo, ay, mira
lo que quedo! Heute wirst Du in meine Vergangenheit eintreten, in die
Vergangenheit meines Lebens. Drei Dinge tragt meine verletzte Seele: Liebe,
Kummer, Schmerz. Heute wirst Du in meine Vergangenheit eintreten, heute
werden wir neue Wege nehmen. Wie gross ist unsere Liebe gewesen und,
trotzdem, o je, schau, was geblieben ist! Hoje vais entrar no meu passado,
no passado da minha vida. Tres coisas leva minha alma ferida: Amor, Pesar,
Dor. Hoje vais entrar no meu passado, hoje seguiremos novos caminhos. Como
foi grande o nosso amor e, no entanto, ai, olha o que restou
----
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