3433 Unwritten code of ethics
Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 14:51:20 EDT
From: FRSASSON@AOL.COM
Subject: Unwritten code of ethics
To all tangueros:
It is well known that most tangueros follow an "Unwritten Code of Ethics"
while at the milongas, however, once in a while we come across a dancer
American or otherwise who, because he calls himself an instructor, fails to abide by
some of the basic codes of decency and respect, and because, (as far as I
know) nobody has written a "Code of Ethics" booklet, which could be delivered
to the perpetrator so that he would be warned of consequences if his nasty and
wrongful demeanor should continue.
The concern is not what to do with this individual, because as we all know,
the tango community is a gossiping Mecca. Enough people will let him know of
his wrongdoings, which hopefully will amend his ways, and if he doesn't, then,
in a community where everyone knows everybody else, I'm sure he will be
given the cold shoulder sufficiently for him to realize that he has to change or
he has to leave. We certainly don't want to lose any MEN dancers, even half
way proficient intermediate dancers, it's difficult enough to get MEN to
dance tango and to stay addicted like we all are.
No, the concern is that because we are constantly growing (That's great),
then the new dancers who just arrived on the scene, will see the wrong things
being done, and they will think it is an acceptable practice, which could
become impossible to stop.
This is certainly not the only community in which "Code of Ethics"
violations have happened, so here are some suggestions:
WHAT I SUGGEST.............
The job of writing a code of ethics booklet is a Monmouth undertaking, so I
suggest that we all cooperate, and each one of us send 2 or 3 points ( or
more) to this forum. If the subject line is "Unwritten Code of Ethics", I will
save the points, and keep them together, however, not being a writer (as you
can tell), I would then have to send them to someone else to organize them and
write the booklet (Any volunteers?). We can then send it through (Tango L)
and print them so that each community has copies, or can attach them to
E-mails sent to their member's lists.
In the case of a gentleman istructor bringing a new lady student of his to
the milonga,
here are a few points that I can suggest:
1. If the lady came to the milonga with another gentleman, and she
graciously accepted your invitation to dance, don't keep her out on the dance floor
for more than 2 or maybe 3 tangos, before returning her to her table or to
the side of the gentleman who brought her to the milonga.
2. NEVER teach on the dance floor. The dance floor is a place to dance,
not to practice nor to give instruction. If you are not happy with the way the
lady dances, finish the first tango and take her back to her table.
3. NEVER but NEVER try to teach tango to a lady who is a student of
another instructor, especially on the dance floor.
First, the milonga is not a place to teach.
Second, she is NOT YOUR STUDENT, so DO NOT interfere with the manner in
which the instructor who brought her to the milonga is teaching her..
Third, the lady is not your friend, she is not even your acquaintance
Since you don't
know her, do not presume to befriend her, and force her to perform
traits of
familiarity, like embraces that have nothing to do with tango.
Fourth, most importantly, if you have a disagreement with the instructor
who brought
the lady to the milonga, be POLITE, talk about your disagreement with
him, away
from the ears of the lady, DO NOT vent your anger for being caught in a
wrongdoing in a loud tone of voice to make the lady feel as if she had
done something
wrong.
4. NEVER try and steal a student from another instructor at a milonga.
The practice of STEALING STUDENTS from another instructor is TOTALLY
UNACCEPTABLE, even if it is not at a milonga.
I'm sure there are going to be many more suggestions on this subject. Send
them to me, I will save them and
LOOKING FOR A VOLUNTEER TO WRITE THE BOOKLET
I will send them to him.... I hope we can do this
Frank Sasson
Miami, Florida
Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 19:55:48 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Unwritten code of ethics
I have a page on my website listing some codes that might be appropriate for
your collection. Most of them are for new dancers, and most deal with
floorcraft. Go to:
https://TangoMoments.com/ATango.htm
and click on "expectations and protocols."
I applaud your effort, but it is a huge undertaking, and will most certainly
arouse a lot of strong opinions and disagreements. Good Luck!
J in Portland
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 13:17:33 -0700
From: Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: WRITTEN code of ethics
Hi Frank
I have a page on tango manners, it covers inviting, declining, monopolizing, personal hygiene, how to deal with new faces.
https://www.tangomuse.com/TangoManners.html
There are actually a lot of web pages out there on manners. The people who should read them are the new dancers so they know not to put up with any abuse. The jerks (thankfully there are very few) don't read such things, they don't give a hoot about manners. In fact they know very well they're jerks and they also know that without their obnoxious behavior they wouldn't be able to extract the kind of fun they're after. Indeed, the pleasure is all theirs. I just boot repeat offenders out of our club. As a result, we have an awesome delightful friendly community.
I agree about teaching beginners or anybody at a milonga (inapproriate time/place), about monopolizing new people who don't know when or how to get out (3 dances, thank you) and about forcing invasive moves like leg wraps on unsuspecting naive followers, or close embrace on clueless total beginners who don't know you (it may freak them out).
However I frown a little at your suggestion that nobody is to presume to befriend a newbie just because she came with her instructor (or is it a date?). Hopefully everybody would be welcoming to new people so they'll want to come back. I don't see even the problem of lightly flirting with the new person, provided she has a regular student/teacher relationship with the person who brought her in, unless, again, she is on a DATE. Heck, this is TANGO.
Regarding "stealing students". It's not because a student happens upon instructor A first, that A OWNS the student for the rest of the student's dancing days and the student can never take a class from instructor B. I think there is no objection to other instructors telling new people that they teach and if there is interest, giving out information. The student can accept the info and make up his/her mind about whether to go check things out. The first instructor may not like it, but tango instruction is a FREE MARKET, and a good thing too. If instructor A has reliable evidence that B is a lousy instructor or a jerk, A may issue a professional opinion or a word of caution to the student, but really it's up to the student to decide. May the better instructors get (and keep) more students.
Tine
www.tangomuse.com
FRSASSON@AOL.COM wrote:
To all tangueros:
It is well known that most tangueros follow an "Unwritten Code of Ethics"
while at the milongas, however, once in a while we come across a dancer
American or otherwise who, because he calls himself an instructor, fails to abide by
some of the basic codes of decency and respect, and because, (as far as I
know) nobody has written a "Code of Ethics" booklet, which could be delivered
to the perpetrator so that he would be warned of consequences if his nasty and
wrongful demeanor should continue.
The concern is not what to do with this individual, because as we all know,
the tango community is a gossiping Mecca. Enough people will let him know of
his wrongdoings, which hopefully will amend his ways, and if he doesn't, then,
in a community where everyone knows everybody else, I'm sure he will be
given the cold shoulder sufficiently for him to realize that he has to change or
he has to leave. We certainly don't want to lose any MEN dancers, even half
way proficient intermediate dancers, it's difficult enough to get MEN to
dance tango and to stay addicted like we all are.
No, the concern is that because we are constantly growing (That's great),
then the new dancers who just arrived on the scene, will see the wrong things
being done, and they will think it is an acceptable practice, which could
become impossible to stop.
This is certainly not the only community in which "Code of Ethics"
violations have happened, so here are some suggestions:
WHAT I SUGGEST.............
The job of writing a code of ethics booklet is a Monmouth undertaking, so I
suggest that we all cooperate, and each one of us send 2 or 3 points ( or
more) to this forum. If the subject line is "Unwritten Code of Ethics", I will
save the points, and keep them together, however, not being a writer (as you
can tell), I would then have to send them to someone else to organize them and
write the booklet (Any volunteers?). We can then send it through (Tango L)
and print them so that each community has copies, or can attach them to
E-mails sent to their member's lists.
In the case of a gentleman istructor bringing a new lady student of his to
the milonga,
here are a few points that I can suggest:
1. If the lady came to the milonga with another gentleman, and she
graciously accepted your invitation to dance, don't keep her out on the dance floor
for more than 2 or maybe 3 tangos, before returning her to her table or to
the side of the gentleman who brought her to the milonga.
2. NEVER teach on the dance floor. The dance floor is a place to dance,
not to practice nor to give instruction. If you are not happy with the way the
lady dances, finish the first tango and take her back to her table.
3. NEVER but NEVER try to teach tango to a lady who is a student of
another instructor, especially on the dance floor.
First, the milonga is not a place to teach.
Second, she is NOT YOUR STUDENT, so DO NOT interfere with the manner in
which the instructor who brought her to the milonga is teaching her..
Third, the lady is not your friend, she is not even your acquaintance
Since you don't
know her, do not presume to befriend her, and force her to perform
traits of
familiarity, like embraces that have nothing to do with tango.
Fourth, most importantly, if you have a disagreement with the instructor
who brought
the lady to the milonga, be POLITE, talk about your disagreement with
him, away
from the ears of the lady, DO NOT vent your anger for being caught in a
wrongdoing in a loud tone of voice to make the lady feel as if she had
done something
wrong.
4. NEVER try and steal a student from another instructor at a milonga.
The practice of STEALING STUDENTS from another instructor is TOTALLY
UNACCEPTABLE, even if it is not at a milonga.
I'm sure there are going to be many more suggestions on this subject. Send
them to me, I will save them and
LOOKING FOR A VOLUNTEER TO WRITE THE BOOKLET
I will send them to him.... I hope we can do this
Frank Sasson
Miami, Florida
************************
Tango Club at Yale
YaleTangoClub@yahoo.com
www.yaletangoclub.org
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Date: Sun, 15 May 2005 21:34:53 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: WRITTEN code of ethics
Tine, what sound editing software do you use? Thanks.
Regarding "stealing" students. I agree that an instructor doesn't "own" his
students, at least in the US. That said, I believe one should at least
always show respect, and that means not bad-mouthing another instructor.
In Argentina I've heard that master instructors insist that a student be
exclusive and not take lessons from other instructors. There's some
functional validity to that, since different instructors have different
styles and teaching focus, and learning from two different instructors can
be confusing and contradictory, and ultimately delay progress. In the US
where most dancers learn from workshops, it's not usually practical to stay
with just one instructor.
In Portland we are blessed with a Lot of instructors. Bill Alsup's website
at PortlandTango.com lists most of them. I have often recommended other
instructors to new dancers, whether they had taken lessons from me or not. I
know it might seem to be working against my personal interest in attracting
lesson business, but I think in the long run it builds a cooperative sense
of community and avoids feelings of competition. As Tine said, tango
instruction is a free market, and especially in the US, dancers are
accustomed to "shopping around" and taking lessons from several instructors.
I think that should be encouraged. I think of our group of Portland tango
instructors as a team, all working for the common goal of increasing the
skill of new dancers.
J in Portland
www.TangoMoments.com
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 00:56:50 +0200
From: Fulano de tal <campanero@SHINYFEET.COM>
Subject: Re: Unwritten code of ethics
FRSASSON@AOL.COM said:
> To all tangueros:
>
> It is well known that most tangueros follow an "Unwritten Code of Ethics"
> while at the milongas, however, once in a while we come across a dancer
> American or otherwise who, because he calls himself an instructor, fails
> to abide by
> WHAT I SUGGEST.............
>
> Frank Sasson
> Miami, Florida
Estimados amigos tangueros,
The following is to my knowledged the most complete, authoritative and
unabridged compilation of rules, norms and suggestions that comprise the
"Unwritted Code of Ethics":
_________________________
Sign up for a FREE ShinyFeet.com account with
unlimited email storage and unlimited file storage!
https://www.shinyfeet.com/signup.php?refid=campanero
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 11:35:27 -0500
From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET>
Subject: Re: Unwritten code of ethics
What about people who teach during lessons? How do I, as the teacher, stop
this behavior?
How do I encourage people to empower themselves against instruction that
they do not want? I have people who put up with the "lesson", and to an
extent encourage the would-be teacher, and then complain to me about it
later.
Lois Donnay
Minneapolis, MN
>
> 2. NEVER teach on the dance floor. The dance floor is a
> place to dance,
> not to practice nor to give instruction. If you are not
> happy with the way the lady dances, finish the first tango
> and take her back to her table.
>
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 14:37:54 -0500
From: Michael Ditkoff <tangomaniac@CAVTEL.NET>
Subject: Re: Unwritten code of ethics
What about people who teach during lessons? How do I, as the
teacher, stop this behavior?
>
Lois Donnay
Minneapolis, MN
Hello Lois:
Try this. Ask the pseudo teacher to find a partner and
execute what you are teaching. When it doesn't work, ask the
pseudo teacher to explain why it isn't working. Consider
asking "difficult" questions, e.g. what foot is the woman
standing?
After a while, the pseudo teachers will learn to spend more
time executing and less time teaching. They will also be
exposed as not knowing as much as they think.
Michael Ditkoff
Getting humid in Washington, DC
2 weeks to Denver Tango Festival
Hope my airline doesn't go bankrupt in the next two weeks
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango
Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 15:14:48 -0500
From: "Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM>
Subject: Re: Unwritten code of ethics
Michael Ditkoff wrote:
>What about people who teach during lessons? How do I, as the
>teacher, stop this behavior?
>
This is a complicated thing to examine. On the one hand you can have
someone who truly "gets it" repeating exactly what you are teaching,
using the same words and concepts you are using. On the other, you
can have a moron trying to teach something completely different. The
first can be acceptable, the second is inexcusably rude.
If you depend on teaching to make a living, this might be harder to
do, but I think you should tell self-appointed assistant instructors
to stop, and if they persist at least consider asking them to leave,
refunding their moeny and tell them to consider starting their own
tango classes.
--
Christopher L. Everett
Chief Technology Officer www.medbanner.com
MedBanner, Inc. www.physemp.com
