776 "What tango is all about"?
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 21:11:21 -0700
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: "What tango is all about"?
Hi everyone,
I was recently reading Miguel Zotto's interview with
Fabiana Basso back in 1994. I was particularly
intrigued by the following observations he made,
especially the very last one about ... "what the tango
is all about".
"Fabiana: That is exactly one of the shortcomings in
Europe, because making them understand that one must
dance the pauses and cadences is very hard for them.
Miguel: The thing is that the rhythm, the timing, one
feels. In the way blacks feel the swing beat, the
Argentinians feel this timing naturally. I'll will
give you an example - we prepared a few tango things
for the classical dancer Julio Bocca, and immediately
he got hold of the timing, he felt it, - he felt it
because he is Argentinian and was born in Munro, a
district of Buenos Aires. The rhythm also has to do
with a certain way of living. That's why it's much
harder for foreigners to do milonga than tango.
Milonga has that lilt which is a trivial thing, you
just have to do the basic and move your shoulders a
bit, like this - and it kills the foreigners. Also
it's very difficult to teach milonga. They can achieve
it by coming to Buenos Aires, going a lot to the
milongas, and dancing with different people. One has
to dance with lots of different people - the men as
well as the women. When Milena and I started going to
the milongas, we decided by mutual agreement to dance
with everybody. Of course, it was something which the
milonguero of the old school, like Virulazo, didn't
understand, and he used to say to me, "How are you
going to let Milena dance with that one?" And I'd
reply, "Don't worry Viru, she's not going to be
unfaithful to me, we're doing it so that we learn
properly what the tango is about." The good thing is
that nowadays this old attitude has gone."
Can anyone elaborate on what Zotto meant by that last
remark about the meaning of tango in the context of
dancing with many different partners? And also the
part about teaching foreigners the milonga.
Luda
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:32:33 -0700
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: "What tango is all about"?
Sergio wrote:
"The music stopped. The couple whose dancing we were
admiring came to our table... They were from
...California!.:)"
Why did that surprise you, Sergio? Some of the best
dancers come from California! Of course, I'm slightly
prejudiced! ;-)
Seriously, though, I appreciate the generous comments
by Sergio, Karen, and Jean-Baptiste in response to my
inquiry regarding Miguel Zotto's observations about
tango during an interview with Fabiana Basso. They
were informative and touching, thought-provoking and
sensitive. A special thank you to Sergio for providing
the translation to that charming Spanish verse Karen
quoted. Sounds a little like a piropo! :) I'm reminded
of the spirited exchange you had on this subject with
Tom Ronquillo some time back, as it relates to tango.
To quote Tom: "I suggest that some of the things that
make piropos enjoyable are similar to what makes a
good tango. Namely, artistry, subtlety,
respectfulness, fantasy and confidence." But that's a
topic for another thread....
However, inspite of all these interesting and
knowledgeable comments and suggestions, I still don't
seem to have a clear picture exactly how dancing with
many different partners, as Miguel Zotto suggests,
teaches us "properly what the tango is about." Does
this mean, for instance, that those of us who opt for
dancing with the same partner, at least most of the
time, don't stand much of a chance to learn the true
meaning of tango, whatever that may be? I've seen some
spectacular dancing by couples who have danced with
each other for years, so I'm a bit puzzled as to what
role the practice of having many dance partners plays
in enhancing the enjoyment and/or mastery of the
dance.
Luda
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 21:19:24 GMT
From: michael <tangomaniac@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"?
To me, tango is a dance of passion and chemistry. It helps to change partners so that you don't fall into a rut where the woman can predict the next figure and the man knows when to expect a gancho. The element of surprise brings vibrancy to the dance. It also tests your skill level. I remember dancing with "Leslie." I led her into a step over. After she stepped over, she grabbed my foot with her trailing foot and dragged it. That was a surprise! Fortunately, I didn't freak out. I gulped, but didn't freak. "Leslie" is one of the few women who will play with me. If I didn't dance with her, I would have lost out on the opportunity.
Also, dancing with strangers will test your skill. Your partners have no biases for nor against you. The slate is clean.
Changing partners is a good idea. It stops complacency from setting in.
Michael
Washington, DC
luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM> asked:
I still don't seem to have a clear picture exactly how dancing with
many different partners, as Miguel Zotto suggests, teaches us "properly what the tango is about." "... so I'm a bit puzzled as to what role the practice of having many dance partners plays in enhancing the enjoyment and/or mastery of the dance.
Luda
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
https://faith.yahoo.c
I'd rather be dancing argentine tango
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:21:31 -0700
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: What tango is all about
Michael is right. He says "." I led her into a step over. After she stepped
over, she grabbed my foot with her trailing foot and dragged it. That was a
surprise! Fortunately, I didn't freak out. I gulped, but didn't freak.
"Leslie" is one of the few women who will play with me. If I didn't dance
with her, I would have lost out on the opportunity."
Luda is right as well, California has excellent tango dancers but so does
Berlin, Istanbul, Amsterdam, Madrid, Munich, Bern,
Paris, New York, Turin, Tokyo and many other places that I know and that I
do not know.
Tango is a dance of improvisation. Moves are suggested according to the
particular feeling of that leader at that precise moment. The two partners
form a unity that expresses itself artistically.
The result of this is that every tango is different. The same tango is
different with other partners.
Each one is a trip to the unknown.
Every dancer develops his/her own style: an expression of their personality.
Every dancer prefers certain moves or develops his own steps, moves and
figures.
Every one on the floor is dancing the same tango in a different way. Some
fast, some slowly, some very simple and some very elaborately.
Dancing with the same partner produces some sort of fairly predictable
routine. The members of that couple are used to certain steps, moves and
figures. They also are used to certain way of leading and following.
They dance very well together but when they have to dance with other
partners they run into all sort of problems.
Dancing with different partners allows the dancer to experience not only new
or unexpected moves but also different ways of feeling the music, different
ways of leading and communicating, different ways of following.
This exposure enriches one's experience immensely. The dancer becomes more
plastic, more malleable, his repertoire of feelings, expressions, leads,
followings and artistic interpretation of the music increases exponentially.
The leader learns to "get the feeling of the lady" so that he will not lead
steps or figures that she cannot follow.
He will learn how to lead better under different circumstances. Leading
beginners is a good way to improve skills mostly by learning how to
compensate for failures of lead . The dancer learns to change his thought
and this in turn produces an improvisation. He then becomes more versatile.
The follower learns to respond to different musical interpretations,
different ways of moving on the floor, different ways to lead, different
reactions to her own musical interpretation and ornaments, etc, etc.
Then...once in a while one runs into that particular person that is a
perfect match, the one that produces a magical experience.
After that happens one is always looking for that opportunity to appear
unexpectedly.
IMO we should all try to dance with many partners as possible, in New York,
in Berlin, in Istanbul, Buenos Aires or wherever, then at certain moments of
the night return to that especial person that is our usual partner. ...but
others may have a different opinion... if this causes you to wish to
unsubscribe, wouldn't you instead please stop and give us your opinion,
so that we can learn from you? :))
Happy tangos to everybody.
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 18:58:10 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: What tango is all about
Sergio wrote:
> Michael is right. He says "." I led her into a step over. After she
stepped
> over, she grabbed my foot with her trailing foot and dragged it. That was
a
> surprise! Fortunately, I didn't freak out. I gulped, but didn't freak.
> "Leslie" is one of the few women who will play with me. If I didn't dance
> with her, I would have lost out on the opportunity."
>
> Every dancer develops his/her own style: an expression of their
personality.
>
> Every dancer prefers certain moves or develops his own steps, moves and
> figures.
>
The move that Michael describes, is one that Carolina Zokalski demonstrates
with Diego on one of their Trenner videos. She says, it only works if the
man has all his weight on his back foot, and gives her enough time. This is
true. I tried, and found, I was about to dislodge and topple the 80 kilos I
had in front of me, and the man was aghast at what he thought I was trying
to do. With another man, I managed to move his foot some, but he rarely gave
me enough time to even try. This move is tricky one, since men are not used
to following. It also clearly demonstrates the difference in the attitude of
a leader and a good follower, who is usually ready for just about anything
the leader might think up unexpectedly.
Although I feel, a man with proper technique should be able to respond to
this move. So, Michael, congratulations. ; )
> Dancing with different partners allows the dancer to experience not only
new
> or unexpected moves but also different ways of feeling the music,
different
> ways of leading and communicating, different ways of following.
I agree completely. I think, women may often know more about the value of
this for learning than men, since they are not the ones directing the dance.
Jorge Torres says, being able to dance well with only one woman is like
being able to dance tango only in one particular pair of shoes. Extremely
limiting.
> Then...once in a while one runs into that particular person that is a
> perfect match, the one that produces a magical experience.
> After that happens one is always looking for that opportunity to appear
> unexpectedly.
>
Yes. The unexpectedness is what creates a lot of the romance.
Astrid
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:00:12 -0700
From: Albert Pan <albert_pan@ORTEGAINFO.COM>
Subject: Re: What tango is all about
Dear all,
To share my experience of this step, I learned it from Max, a lady in San
Francisco when we danced in the Golden Gate park, open stage in a Sunday
afternoon.
She told me that lady would "suggest" man by "suggesting" to transfer man's
body weight to the back. Once she knows that man can respond (just like the
lady can respond to man's suggestion), then she can easily drag the man's
foot.
I didn't dance much enough to knew how often the lady would "suggest" man,
but this works and has much fun.
Albert
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2002 2:58 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] What tango is all about
Sergio wrote:
> Michael is right. He says "." I led her into a step over. After she
stepped
> over, she grabbed my foot with her trailing foot and dragged it. That was
a
> surprise! Fortunately, I didn't freak out. I gulped, but didn't freak.
> "Leslie" is one of the few women who will play with me. If I didn't dance
> with her, I would have lost out on the opportunity."
>
> Every dancer develops his/her own style: an expression of their
personality.
>
> Every dancer prefers certain moves or develops his own steps, moves and
> figures.
>
The move that Michael describes, is one that Carolina Zokalski demonstrates
with Diego on one of their Trenner videos. She says, it only works if the
man has all his weight on his back foot, and gives her enough time. This is
true. I tried, and found, I was about to dislodge and topple the 80 kilos I
had in front of me, and the man was aghast at what he thought I was trying
to do. With another man, I managed to move his foot some, but he rarely gave
me enough time to even try. This move is tricky one, since men are not used
to following. It also clearly demonstrates the difference in the attitude of
a leader and a good follower, who is usually ready for just about anything
the leader might think up unexpectedly.
Although I feel, a man with proper technique should be able to respond to
this move. So, Michael, congratulations. ; )
> Dancing with different partners allows the dancer to experience not only
new
> or unexpected moves but also different ways of feeling the music,
different
> ways of leading and communicating, different ways of following.
I agree completely. I think, women may often know more about the value of
this for learning than men, since they are not the ones directing the dance.
Jorge Torres says, being able to dance well with only one woman is like
being able to dance tango only in one particular pair of shoes. Extremely
limiting.
> Then...once in a while one runs into that particular person that is a
> perfect match, the one that produces a magical experience.
> After that happens one is always looking for that opportunity to appear
> unexpectedly.
>
Yes. The unexpectedness is what creates a lot of the romance.
Astrid
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:43:10 -0700
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: "What tango is all about"
Michael wrote:
"To me, tango is a dance of passion and chemistry. It
helps to change
partners so that you don't fall into a rut where the
woman can predict
the next figure and the man knows when to expect a
gancho. The element of
surprise brings vibrancy to the dance. It also tests
your skill level."
Your point is well taken, Michael, but I would think
that being able to be "unpredictable" with the same
partner is where the real challenge lies. For both,
leader and follower. Originality is frequently born in
the midst of the familiar. Perhaps people who prefer
to dance with many different partners to get that
special buzz are a bit lazy and don't want to rise to
the challenge of creating something new and exciting
with the same partner. Which would result in a much
more intense buzz, methinks. So they try to get around
this challenge by using the same old routine -- on
different partners. :)
Luda
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:21:40 -0700
From: Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, luda_r1 wrote:
> Michael wrote:
>
> "To me, tango is a dance of passion and chemistry. It
> helps to change
> partners so that you don't fall into a rut where the
> woman can predict
> the next figure and the man knows when to expect a
> gancho. The element of
> surprise brings vibrancy to the dance. It also tests
> your skill level."
>
> Your point is well taken, Michael, but I would think
> that being able to be "unpredictable" with the same
> partner is where the real challenge lies. For both,
> leader and follower. Originality is frequently born in
> the midst of the familiar. Perhaps people who prefer
> to dance with many different partners to get that
> special buzz are a bit lazy and don't want to rise to
> the challenge of creating something new and exciting
> with the same partner. Which would result in a much
> more intense buzz, methinks. So they try to get around
> this challenge by using the same old routine -- on
> different partners. :)
>
> Luda
From the descriptions given by both Michael and Luda, it sounds to
me that they are talking about dancing from the concepts of the dance and
not what I find to be true improvisation. When one is open to the emerging
improvisation, the "newness" is there and is being "discovered" by both
partners. A teacher in a Contact Improvisation class referred to this
improvisation mode as "the mind of the duet". Notice mind as singular.
This points to something beyond the conventional paradigm of lead and
follow. It is my experience that true improvisation occurs only when the
partners go beyond the paradigm of lead/follow social dancing and enter
into the mind of the duet. It is then that the dancing becomes an
encounter with emerging newness in the moment. Until then it's a
conceptual reworking of known elements, and hence is prone to repetition.
If I'm "being" unpredictable is it something I'm doing
deliberately from concepts, or am I so open that I am surprised by myself
and my partner and the music in the unique newness emerging in the moment?
Jonathan Thornton
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 05:09:35 -0700
From: Tom English <tom@TANGONOW.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
If you want to become more unpredictable as a leader then
try the following:
1. Take a series of close embrace lessons with someone that
is very good at working on your connection.
2. When social dancing, dance alot in open embrace, but cut
back to just your basics. The things that really work
well. Cut out the more outlandish things, like ganchos.
You will notice that you have a better connection with
your follower. When I did this, I was frustrated, at
first, because I knew my close embrace was better due to
the lessons. My partners knew it. But, they some of them
were insisting that we dance in open embrace because I had
cut back to the basics with which I had that absolute best
connection. It felt like I was dancing close embrace feel
in open embrace ... so fluid! THAT developed into #3 ...
3. Now, use that connection to feel out your follower's
musicality, things like how elastic is she in a trespia and
smaller boleos. What you may find, as I did, is that YOUR
dance is coming from your follower. Thus, every song,
every follower is different. You become more unpredictable
because the two of you will be so busy toying with whether
to take that next step, whether to do that second or third
small, elastic back boleo in a row or not, whether to allow
her to actually step over, ....
It makes open embrace something to look forward to each
week because you will find that your partner is smiling a
whole lot more than she used to smile .... how many songs
just went by?
Enjoy!
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:43:10 -0700
luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> Michael wrote:
>
> "To me, tango is a dance of passion and chemistry. It
> helps to change
> partners so that you don't fall into a rut where the
> woman can predict
> the next figure and the man knows when to expect a
> gancho. The element of
> surprise brings vibrancy to the dance. It also tests
> your skill level."
>
> Your point is well taken, Michael, but I would think
> that being able to be "unpredictable" with the same
> partner is where the real challenge lies. For both,
> leader and follower. Originality is frequently born in
> the midst of the familiar. Perhaps people who prefer
> to dance with many different partners to get that
> special buzz are a bit lazy and don't want to rise to
> the challenge of creating something new and exciting
> with the same partner. Which would result in a much
> more intense buzz, methinks. So they try to get around
> this challenge by using the same old routine -- on
> different partners. :)
>
> Luda
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
--
Tom English, Founder
TangoNow!
Boston's very own Argentine Tango
www.tangonow.com
tom@tangonow.com
617-783-5478
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:19:09 +0100
From: Bruce Stephens <bruce@CENDERIS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
Tom English <tom@TANGONOW.COM> writes:
> If you want to become more unpredictable as a leader then
> try the following:
>
> 1. Take a series of close embrace lessons with someone that
> is very good at working on your connection.
And try to find teachers who really know and explain technique, so you
know how everything works.
> 2. When social dancing, dance alot in open embrace, but cut back to
> just your basics. The things that really work well. Cut out the
> more outlandish things, like ganchos.
Yes, and some not so outlandish things can go, too. Learning how to
follow (if you don't already) is also good advice: once you know how
little can be enjoyable in a dance, provided it's done well, and
musically, you probably won't feel it so necessary to add fancy steps.
Some teachers do classes specifically on improvisation. I'm not sure
what others do, but Christine Denniston has the class play various
games which put the dancers in unusual positions, and forces them to
explore what's possible from those positions. (And, as all of her
classes do, forces everyone to concentrate on technique, because
without good connection these odd things can't be led or followed.)
[...]
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:39:35 -0700
From: Tom English <tom@TANGONOW.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
Technique, technique, technique, yes. I agree completely.
It opens up your ability to do anything at any given time.
But, I want to be clear about my experience, last year.
Take a series of close embrace lessons working on the
connection, things like 3 ways to do a rock-step, really
feel like you never lose your follower. THEN, at the next
dance, use open embrace, do VERY LITTLE in terms of steps
and notice how balanced and secure your partner feels.
Once she feels that, you can tease her with her own
elasticity, the way that she comes into and out of her
pivot. The dance becomes all about her. You wouldn't do
the same thing with the next follower, exactly, because the
next follower has a different sense of balance, timing and
elasticity.
Its weird. The follower will exclaim at how wonderful I
was and, really, its puzzling. I tell her that it was HER,
not me. I just made her feel secure in each thing that I
did and SHE added to the dance by daring to reach into the
music with her foot, her body, her own sense of responding
to the music.
To me, it felt like I led close embrace moves in open
embrace and was just along for a very musical ride.
Eventually, I had to learn to come out of my spell and
thank my follower before she got a chance to thank me!
Tom
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:19:09 +0100
Bruce Stephens <bruce@CENDERIS.DEMON.CO.UK> wrote:
> Tom English <tom@TANGONOW.COM> writes:
>
> > If you want to become more unpredictable as a leader
> then
> > try the following:
> >
> > 1. Take a series of close embrace lessons with someone
> that
> > is very good at working on your connection.
>
> And try to find teachers who really know and explain
> technique, so you
> know how everything works.
>
> > 2. When social dancing, dance alot in open embrace, but
> cut back to
> > just your basics. The things that really work well.
> Cut out the
> > more outlandish things, like ganchos.
>
> Yes, and some not so outlandish things can go, too.
> Learning how to
> follow (if you don't already) is also good advice: once
> you know how
> little can be enjoyable in a dance, provided it's done
> well, and
> musically, you probably won't feel it so necessary to add
> fancy steps.
>
> Some teachers do classes specifically on improvisation.
> I'm not sure
> what others do, but Christine Denniston has the class
> play various
> games which put the dancers in unusual positions, and
> forces them to
> explore what's possible from those positions. (And, as
> all of her
> classes do, forces everyone to concentrate on technique,
> because
> without good connection these odd things can't be led or
> followed.)
>
> [...]
--
Tom English, Founder
TangoNow!
Boston's very own Argentine Tango
www.tangonow.com
tom@tangonow.com
617-783-5478
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 09:45:54 -0700
From: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
Jonathan Thornton wrote:
"It is my experience that true improvisation occurs
only when the partners go beyond the paradigm of
lead/follow social dancing and enter into the mind of
the duet."
Jonathan,
Your description is beautiful. I have never heard it
referred to as "the mind of the duet" but that
description really speaks to me. There are dances in
which I have moved with my partner as seamlessly as if
we were one body but have not enjoyed those dances as
much as the ones in which I feel I am moving with my
partner as one mind. I believe that it doesn't matter
whether it is with a partner who I have shared
hundreds of dances with and know really well or a
partner whom I have just met. It really just depends
on intention. Both people must be seeking that
connection and openly embrace a moment together.
Thank you for your insight.
Regards,
Rose
Portland, OR
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 10:40:38 -0700
From: Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Tom English wrote:
> Technique, technique, technique, yes. I agree completely.
> It opens up your ability to do anything at any given time.
> pivot. The dance becomes all about her. You wouldn't do
> the same thing with the next follower, exactly, because the
> next follower has a different sense of balance, timing and
> elasticity.
Tom,
I like what you described. Bruce's point about technique is
also good. I'm going to piggy back my own frustrations with social dance
into this discussion though because I trying to develop ways to
communicate about dance and musicality that don't seem to be present in
the approaches, classes, and workshops of social dance.
My complaint is that I see many social dancer seemingly thinking
that technique is the dance. And for me dancing steps in time to the music
is not satisfying no matter how good the technique, execution of steps or
connection. There is music that I love for the way it speaks to me. I
don't like dancing for the sake of dancing. In and of itself it seems
rather a trivial activity to me. For me it is music that is meaningful and
dancing is a valued activity only to the extent that it deepens and
enhances my feelings and experience of the music and also allows me to
experience and share the music and feelings with someone else.
I've danced with professional dancers who moved beautifully but
they did not share any feelings with me. They did a beautiful performance
but I found the experience not something I wanted to repeat. For me the
most important activity in dancing is listening. Listening to the music,
listening to my partner, listening to my feelings, how it feels to me.
Technique is to be practised until it can be forgotten in the
dance. Like playing scales and fingering exercises it's necessary but it's
not the song. The song can be heard in the heart and danced from the
heart. The head has done its job in the hours, weeks, years of
preparation. It now needs to give way to the heart and allow it to dance
the feeling truth in the music.
Rereading this I don't like that it's so prescriptive. I know
people listen and dance to music for many reasons. And for each those are
all good and valid. This is what I seek and I am frustrated that for so
many dancers the fancy steps, style, and technique are so much more
important than the music and the feeling. This is my personal view. I
don't offer it as a should to anyone. More like a wistful desire on my
part, I guess.
Sincerely,
Jonathan Thornton
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:02:25 +0100
From: Bruce Stephens <bruce@CENDERIS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM> writes:
[...]
> Technique is to be practised until it can be forgotten in the
> dance. Like playing scales and fingering exercises it's necessary
> but it's not the song. The song can be heard in the heart and danced
> from the heart. The head has done its job in the hours, weeks, years
> of preparation. It now needs to give way to the heart and allow it
> to dance the feeling truth in the music.
Absolutely. Technique is a foundation---it's what gives you the
freedom which allows connection with your partner, and with the music.
But it's most definitely not enough, and if you find yourself noticing
some aspect of technique while dancing, then it's usually because
something's gone wrong.
[...]
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:15:37 -0700
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
Equally important in the Tango dance is that the dancers have a fine
sensibility for the music they choose to dance. This can only be possible if
you are familiar or immersed in the tango lyrics. Nice Tango lyrics not only
tell about a story with a beginning, a body, and an ending, but have the
power to move you in a subconcious level. Two tangos that came to mind for
example -- these are only my preferences -- are "Niebla de Riachuelo" and
"Por Una Cabeza" interpreted by Panchito Riset (a Cuban singer!).
For example, yesterday I saw Susana Baca sing and dance to afroperuvian
music her voice was marvelous but her dance was superb. She danced solo but
in her dance she transmitted a fine sensibility for the music she sang.
There were no complicated steps she danced with her whole body true to her
native black roots. Her dance which accompanied every song conveyed a fine
sensibility of the lyrics she and her group of musicians interpreted.
Bruno
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 15:30:04 -0400
From: Manuel Patino <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
----- Original Message -----
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:09:44 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
Manuel writes:
> Jonathan, what you say is true, the whole purpose of the dance is self
> expression. To me the music is immeasurably important. Without appreciation
> of the music, without the emotion, the dance is fairly sterile and
> artificial, no matter how well the steps are performed. [...]
Indeed!
> On the other hand, I think that what most folks are saying is that without
> the proper technique, it is fairly impossible to interpret and express the
> feelings through the dance.
Precisely.
I remember being at a workshop early on in my dancing
in which the male of the teaching couple was dancing with
one of the students, while his teaching partner admonished
the class, "Look at that musicality! Why can't any of you do
that? Can't you feel the beautiful emotion in the music?"
I felt like saying that as a musician, I probably
have more musicality in my little finger than both of
you put together, but I haven't been dancing 20 years and
don't yet have the requisite technique to be able to
relinquish my mind from even the simple task of worrying
about where to put my feet next in order to free up mind
space to worry about things like style and musicality, DUH.
I mean, by her standards, if Mozart walked in and took
a beginning tango class, he'd be judged to not have any
musicality or emotional sensitivity either, simply because
he hadn't yet mastered any dance technique.
Huck
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 17:37:40 EDT
From: Timothy Pogros <TimmyTango@AOL.COM>
Subject: what tango is all about
With every person, you'll get a different description of what tango is.
It's just like tango teachers. Each teaches differently but they are all
teaching the same thing. Or so they think.
Carlos Gavito, Daniel Lapadula have described the tango the best in my
believe.
The tango is a gift from one person to the other. It's a moment in time
shared by two people, and hold deep in each others memory forever.
Each maestro don't dance every dance that the DJ plays at a milonga. Leaders
should only dance when the music moves them, or the lady waiting, or the
aurora of the evening. It also in not the Lyrics of the song, because I don't
understand Spanish. Even thought I do like to think what the words are really
saying. When I hear a person say "I danced every song the DJ played. I really
got my money worth tonight". I wonder what the tango really is for that
person. I think they're only dancing for them self's, and not their partner.
No matter how well your technique. No matter how simple, or how difficult the
dance step you perform. Or how well you moved to the music, It's how well you
enjoyed the last 3 minutes with your dance partner, that's important. The
goal of every tango is, that your partner will give you a second opportunity
to dance with you again.
I've heard many people say, just like Pablo Veron in the movie "The Tango
Lesson,"
"The tango took me," not the other way around.
What I'm saying about Tango isn't right, but it isn't wrong either. It's just
different for each one of us.
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:59:35 -0700
From: Bugs Bunny <bugsbunny1959@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: what tango is all about
For me, it beings & ends with music, that speaks to my soul. If I'm not
connecting with the music, its difficult/impossible to manufacture
enthusiasm for this dance. It won't matter how creative I feel or who my
partner is.
So far, the reproduction_quality/fidelity of the Golden Age isn't there yet,
for me. I know this, because I've been listening to "Los Reyes de Tango"
(pronounced 'Lows RAY-JEZ'; I hope I got the spelling & pronunciation
right). Which apparently is the Golden Age music of D'Arienzo with modern,
high-fidelity stereophonic sound. I've been listening to the song "a media
luz" (sp correct I hope) by both orchestras, one after the other. There are
other songs, I'll post more about this soon.
I know there are people out there that connect with the old music, people
who haven't thought about it & people who don't connect with the old music.
I spoken with them, probably at every dance I've ever been to. The problem
definitely isn't the music, just the sound quality. And its not a function
of comprehension, listening, &/or dancing, to more of the Golden Age, I've
got plenty of exposure & knowledgable friends. The Los Reyes renditions are
incredibly beautiful to listen & dance to. I can only imagine how wonderful
it must have been to dance back in time. I'll post more findings soon...
Rick
Portland, OR
"In a Thurmont, Maryland, cemetery:
Here lies an Atheist, all dressed up & no place to go."
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:31:14 -0700
From: Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Huck Kennedy wrote:
>
> I remember being at a workshop early on in my dancing
> in which the male of the teaching couple was dancing with
> one of the students, while his teaching partner admonished
> the class, "Look at that musicality! Why can't any of you do
> that? Can't you feel the beautiful emotion in the music?"
>
> I felt like saying that as a musician, I probably
> have more musicality in my little finger than both of
> you put together, but I haven't been dancing 20 years and
> don't yet have the requisite technique to be able to
> relinquish my mind from even the simple task of worrying
> about where to put my feet next in order to free up mind
> space to worry about things like style and musicality, DUH.
>
> Huck
Huck,
Absolutely one needs to develop skills. I am not saying technique
is unnecessary or undesirable. From my experience and from reading this
list and Rec.Arts.Dance I see a different problem. Technique is taught in
the beginning, intermediate, and advanced levels. If a student is a
musician they have experience with the structure and phrases of music. They
can recognize the shaping of responses etc and will probably work to bring
their technique into the service of the music. And to berate beginners for
not dancing with the musicality of an advanced dancer is astoundingly
ignorant.
But, for the many people who come to dance with out any formal
education in music, I feel the approaches of social dance is insufficient
for developing musicality. Not because of what is taught, but because of
what is NOT taught. And many dancers are left the impression or the
default approach to dance that one acquires a lot of steps and technical
tricks and strings them together in time to the music.
That the lyrical and melodic phrases of the music have a structure
that is expressed by the instrumentalists, and the vocalist, and can be
expressed by the dancer are ideas and approaches that I have never
experienced in any class or workshop I've attended.
I am interrested in how to teach non musicians to hear the
downbeat and to recognize the beginning and climax and resolutions of the
phrases of the music, and then how to express that development in their
own movement. I'm not interrested in vainly exhorting them to be more
musical, though I hadn't in my previous post developed this idea, so it
might have seemed I could only complain. I am just frustrated that this
part of the education of dance seems so rarely addressed in the classes
and workshops that I'm aware of.
I am trying to develop a way to bring this awareness to dancers
without a musical background. I have been unsuccessful to date in
expressing my ideas in a way that interests dancers. My attempts to say
that technique is necessary but not sufficient seems to be mis heard as my
saying technique isn't necessary. From my experience technique is about
all that is taught in social dance. If you see this differently, of have
experienced other approaches I'm very interrested in that also.
Thanks for responding,
Jonathan Thornton
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:39:10 -0700
From: Tom English <tom@TANGONOW.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
I beg to differ, which is why this group is so interesting.
I have some formal training in music in that I played
trumpet in high school and then taught myself lead blues
guitar later in life. But, I use so very little of that.
Actually, I only really use it to listen to the teachers,
amusingly, as they try to get the students to hear the
various beats.
I find something different going on and I found myself
repeating something that works, although, I must confess
that I don't remember who put it into my head.
Here's the problem: The leader's mind is taxed. How can
he dance to the phrases in the music if he can't think
where to step next. Case in point, I joined a coreography
group this last spring and summer and, even though I am
known for being musical, I found my coreographer saying
over and over again, "Its in the music. Can't you hear
it?" I was so frustrated because I don't do steps. I
don't remember steps. I DONT TEACH STEPS! My mind was so
full, I couldn't hear the most major of phrases!
Now, lets move on to improvisational tango. I was taught
to feel the music in my follower's feet, in my follower's
body. Until I learned to do less, less, less, and feel the
follower feel the music, I struggled. Read that line
again, "feel the follower feel the music". You have to get
your students to think about what the follower is feeling.
How can you make her settle into a step musically? How
can you make her skip through a step, musically? How can
you get her to pivot musically?
I contest that it isn't the man who is dancing. Its the
woman. You know. The leader suggests a step, the
follower steps, then the leader steps, implying that the
leader is suggesting a feel to the dance, but it is the
follower's body that hits that step, rebounds off your
movement, reacts, and more. The leader might have
suggested it, but then, the leader has to feel the follower
do what she does and accompany her.
Now, many of you might say that I just wrote a bunch of
bull----. But, try to remember back (whether it was years
ago, or last night) to when you sat in the dark, after
getting drunk, and swayed with passion to your music. For
me, when I was younger, it was Pink Floyd or rock and roll.
Then, it was definitely BB King and Eric Clapton. You
know how you embraced that music through your whole body?
You have to teach your students the technique to feel the
music of their followers as they take each step.
It takes the guys about 2 classes to realize that you are
teaching them the technique required to feel the follower
rather than to accomplish a pattern. It isn't my leaders
who are dancing. Its thier followers. I'm just teaching
the leaders how to allow thier followers to be verticle, be
comfortable, etc. I'm teaching them the technique required
to allow themselves the opportunity to stay connected with
thier follower. ( I could write alot of this from what I
teach the follower. But, I hear men complaining about
men's dancing. )
Aaahh! I could go on forever about this. I stormed into a
private lesson a while back (as I was just learning close
embrace) and said that I was so mad because some followers
were saying that I wasn't musical, but I knew that I was
... alone! So, in 3 lessons, she taught me soley about
keeping a consistent connection. Voila! I could tell the
world that I was right! I did have musicality! I just
didn't know how to keep a constant connection so it got
lost in the chaff between us!
Teach the leaders to be at the right place at the right
time to keep the followers comfortable and allow the
followers to feel the beat rather than just glossing over
it, and as their confidence grows, watch them become
musical!
I contest that the guys aren't musical because they don't
know how to stay connected with thier follower. Go watch a
beginners' class. In the first couple of weeks, hardly any
of them can even walk, as a couple, to the beat. Well,
there it is! Don't stop teaching them the technique of
keeping the connection.
Well, anyway, that's how I keep the guys in my class and
the women keep thanking me for working on the little things
that allow the men to have enough control to keep the
connection and feel the music.
....... I write too much!
Tom
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:31:14 -0700
Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Huck Kennedy wrote:
> >
> > I remember being at a workshop early on in my
> dancing
> > in which the male of the teaching couple was dancing
> with
> > one of the students, while his teaching partner
> admonished
> > the class, "Look at that musicality! Why can't any of
> you do
> > that? Can't you feel the beautiful emotion in the
> music?"
> >
> > I felt like saying that as a musician, I probably
> > have more musicality in my little finger than both of
> > you put together, but I haven't been dancing 20 years
> and
> > don't yet have the requisite technique to be able to
> > relinquish my mind from even the simple task of
> worrying
> > about where to put my feet next in order to free up
> mind
> > space to worry about things like style and musicality,
> DUH.
> >
> > Huck
>
> Huck,
> Absolutely one needs to develop skills. I am not
> saying technique
> is unnecessary or undesirable. From my experience and
> from reading this
> list and Rec.Arts.Dance I see a different problem.
> Technique is taught in
> the beginning, intermediate, and advanced levels. If a
> student is a
> musician they have experience with the structure and
> phrases of music. They
> can recognize the shaping of responses etc and will
> probably work to bring
> their technique into the service of the music. And to
> berate beginners for
> not dancing with the musicality of an advanced dancer is
> astoundingly
> ignorant.
> But, for the many people who come to dance with
> out any formal
> education in music, I feel the approaches of social dance
> is insufficient
> for developing musicality. Not because of what is taught,
> but because of
> what is NOT taught. And many dancers are left the
> impression or the
> default approach to dance that one acquires a lot of
> steps and technical
> tricks and strings them together in time to the music.
> That the lyrical and melodic phrases of the music
> have a structure
> that is expressed by the instrumentalists, and the
> vocalist, and can be
> expressed by the dancer are ideas and approaches that I
> have never
> experienced in any class or workshop I've attended.
> I am interrested in how to teach non musicians to
> hear the
> downbeat and to recognize the beginning and climax and
> resolutions of the
> phrases of the music, and then how to express that
> development in their
> own movement. I'm not interrested in vainly exhorting
> them to be more
> musical, though I hadn't in my previous post developed
> this idea, so it
> might have seemed I could only complain. I am just
> frustrated that this
> part of the education of dance seems so rarely addressed
> in the classes
> and workshops that I'm aware of.
> I am trying to develop a way to bring this
> awareness to dancers
> without a musical background. I have been unsuccessful to
> date in
> expressing my ideas in a way that interests dancers. My
> attempts to say
> that technique is necessary but not sufficient seems to
> be mis heard as my
> saying technique isn't necessary. From my experience
> technique is about
> all that is taught in social dance. If you see this
> differently, of have
> experienced other approaches I'm very interrested in that
> also.
>
> Thanks for responding,
>
> Jonathan Thornton
--
Tom English, Founder
TangoNow!
Boston's very own Argentine Tango
www.tangonow.com
tom@tangonow.com
617-783-5478
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:19:58 -0700
From: Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Tom English wrote:
> ....... I write too much!
Tom,
I don't think you write too much at all, it's just that you put it
all in a single post! Which makes responding to your post a little more
challenging than I prefer! So, I'll look at just a couple of aspects that
you talked about.
I found your suggestions quite helpful and well put. Where I
differ is that I see you emphasizing one element of what is for me, but
not everyone! a triadic relationship of self, music, partner. Most of
the things you say about leading a partner sound very good to me, and I
believe that many dancers would find that focus quite enough for enjoyable
dancing. And then there are dancers who find the delight they take in the
execution of patterns and steps quite satisfying. And I suppose I could
include those who don't even dance but enjoy listening to the music.
Just as I believe technique is necessary, I agree that listening
to the partner listening to the music is necessary. I just want to note
that for me, when I dance with a partner who listens to the music and is
open and sharing that I then hear the music better! The partner that I
discovered the most about dancing with, when I danced with her, it was
like the notes were magnified and time seemed to be more then enough to
hear and respond. I heard the music better when dancing with her, and she
said she found the same thing for herself.
I'm typing this in the morning before work so will be brief. I am
trying to develop a way of talking about what I think are the three
fundamental aspects of the dance. I like what you said about attending to
the partner. I just think the dance is even richer and deeper when all
three elements are balanced and brought together.
I look forward to reading all the contributions to this discussion.
Thank you.
Jonathan Thornton
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:10:56 -0700
From: Tom English <tom@TANGONOW.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
Damn! That's inspiring! I like the way you think. I have
to confess that I miss crescendos, impulses, phrases, so
much of it, now matter how many times I have heard the
song. I have a dance partner that, so badly, wants me to
hear them for performances so that we can dance our best to
Pugiese. But, I am what I am .... so far.
So, I am stuck, if you can call it that, with taking the
music from my follower's body. I guess that would make me
a reactionary. I only hear the few notes that are around
us, in time. I'm struggling to find a vocabulary for this.
I could think of it in terms of micro and macro, like
micro-economics and macro-economics. You, from what you
have written, are masterful at the macro side, the song as
a whole. I am envious. You probably do well at the micro
side as well. I am limited to taking the dance from the
few notes that are around me. Limited, but I loooooove the
feel!
I hope to contribute skewed toward this view and have
enjoyed trying to learn from what you and others are
talking about.
Someone just asked me to contribute more on a previous
posting about creating an elasticity between my partner and
me. Well, writing about it is much like experiencing it.
It comes when it comes. In the meantime, write on.....
Tom
PS: I have to admit that I originally wrote in frustration
to your posting ( I think it was yours. ) When people
write, but it seems to only state the problem without
adding anything, I get all worked up and want to add
something. Then, as people responded to you, I started to
realize what was being taught. Ugh! This, my professor,
means that I wish that you, and others, would continue to
try and clarify this aspect of the dance. I have caught up
to the class and wish to learn more. :)
On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 06:19:58 -0700
Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Tom English wrote:
>
> > ....... I write too much!
>
> Tom,
> I don't think you write too much at all, it's
> just that you put it
> all in a single post! Which makes responding to your post
> a little more
> challenging than I prefer! So, I'll look at just a couple
> of aspects that
> you talked about.
> I found your suggestions quite helpful and well
> put. Where I
> differ is that I see you emphasizing one element of what
> is for me, but
> not everyone! a triadic relationship of self, music,
> partner. Most of
> the things you say about leading a partner sound very
> good to me, and I
> believe that many dancers would find that focus quite
> enough for enjoyable
> dancing. And then there are dancers who find the delight
> they take in the
> execution of patterns and steps quite satisfying. And I
> suppose I could
> include those who don't even dance but enjoy listening to
> the music.
> Just as I believe technique is necessary, I agree
> that listening
> to the partner listening to the music is necessary. I
> just want to note
> that for me, when I dance with a partner who listens to
> the music and is
> open and sharing that I then hear the music better! The
> partner that I
> discovered the most about dancing with, when I danced
> with her, it was
> like the notes were magnified and time seemed to be more
> then enough to
> hear and respond. I heard the music better when dancing
> with her, and she
> said she found the same thing for herself.
> I'm typing this in the morning before work so
> will be brief. I am
> trying to develop a way of talking about what I think are
> the three
> fundamental aspects of the dance. I like what you said
> about attending to
> the partner. I just think the dance is even richer and
> deeper when all
> three elements are balanced and brought together.
>
> I look forward to reading all the contributions to this
> discussion.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Jonathan Thornton
>
>
> Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to Tango-A
> rather than to
> Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To subscribe
> to Tango-A,
> send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
--
Tom English, Founder
TangoNow!
Boston's very own Argentine Tango
www.tangonow.com
tom@tangonow.com
617-783-5478
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:13:17 -0400
From: Keith Elshaw <keith@TOTANGO.NET>
Subject: "What tango is all about"
Hi Tom and all;
So glad you've taken the time to make this thread and keep posting.
"only hear the few notes that are around us, in time" is it. Would that many
people could be there.
It really is all about the moment - which can be hard to get to. It took me
more years than I care to admit to. Each in their own time.
Getting a bit outside the moment, into a larger context - BUT STILL WITHOUT
THINKING - is what you seem to intuit is a further development for you
personally, if I understand what you wrote.
I don't have any particular wisdom to impart on this - I guess I just want
the probing by everyone to continue.
Seems to me the context - the larger perspective (or where we are going from
this moment) - is triggered within the dynamic of the song.
If you know the music intimately, you can move through the contextual
postures still without thinking. The goal, no?
There is a sublime complexity to the "simple" format of the tango, as we all
have found.
Early on, I developed little tricks for passages. They change and are not
done by rote, but the concept of "I'll do this here and this there" is my
little format thing that lets me go without thinking.
For 13 years, I've played a little game with myself called, "I end with the
music - chan chun." Perfectly balanced, end of story. No hanging in the
middle of a movement. Of course, when you achieve this, your partner tends
to love you a little bit and you both just hang on to each other, often with
a little chuckle for the surprise (hey - I worked hard to make it seem like
it just happened). For me, the "moment" endures past the last notes.
That is the context: as in every story, a tango has a beginning, a middle
and an end (or it isn't complete). My tango ends long after the music has
faded. I'm still hanging on. I truly love the woman who is still hanging on
to me.
What I'm saying is ... if you know the ending, you kind of work back from
there. You tend to do the gyros and fast stuff when the fever has risen near
the end. The soft part in the middle you've done your artistic leg dialogue.
The early parts you've walked with expressive rhythm, working off each
other. The beginning is for getting to know each other. The more generosity
the better all the way along.
In every section, I pray for my partner to surprise me with nuances. I don't
know what I'm going to do next - being so in the moment and rather
unconscious - and my tango is only satisfying when I have a partner doing
things in her excitement that excite me.
No thinking ... but the overall context is that we know the music in our
sleep. We don't think.
My drug in tango is the embrace and the sharing. When my partner expresses
her own needs and desires but adds to that her definite personal possession
of the moment (and me), I'm in heaven.
What you wrote about waiting for her, "taking the
music from my follower's body" is how this happens.
We share by both being who we are. No dominance. No hesitation. Just alive
inside the music and feeling blessed.
k
> From: Tom English <tom@TANGONOW.COM>
> Reply-To: tom@TANGONOW.COM
> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 13:10:56 -0700
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] "What tango is all about"
>
> Damn! That's inspiring! I like the way you think. I have
> to confess that I miss crescendos, impulses, phrases, so
> much of it, now matter how many times I have heard the
> song. I have a dance partner that, so badly, wants me to
> hear them for performances so that we can dance our best to
> PugLiese. But, I am what I am .... so far.
>
> So, I am stuck, if you can call it that, with. I guess that would make me
> a reactionary. I only hear the few notes that are around
> us, in time.
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:41:46 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
Jonathan Thornton writes:
> I am interrested in how to teach non musicians to hear the
> downbeat and to recognize the beginning and climax and resolutions of the
> phrases of the music, and then how to express that development in their
> own movement. I'm not interrested in vainly exhorting them to be more
> musical, though I hadn't in my previous post developed this idea, so it
> might have seemed I could only complain. I am just frustrated that this
> part of the education of dance seems so rarely addressed in the classes
> and workshops that I'm aware of.
Are you familiar with the musical West Side
Story? Most of the characters comprise two gangs:
the Jets and the Sharks. When they perform during
the play as a group, the Jets always sing and the
Sharks always dance.
Unless you have one of the lead parts, if you
are going to be in this play, you get to be either
a generic Jet or a Shark, depending upon whether you
are better at singing in a choir or dancing in
a dance troupe.
So here begins my theory: In real life,
everyone is either a Jet or a Shark (or Officer
Krupke who can't do anything, but if you can't do
anything you don't last long in tango anyway, so
we'll leave the Officer Krupke's out of the
discussion).
If you are a Shark, your brain is well-wired
for the movement of the dance. Dance majors tend
to be Sharks. They can see a movement and duplicate
it almost immediately with ease, but often they
struggle with concepts of rhythm, phrasing, and
musicality in general. You will see many of them
in ballet class, for example, at the end of the
class in center doing all sorts of complicated
movements slightly off the beat of the music being
played in the studio. They see nothing unusual
about a dance like the hustle, which counts
&1-2-3 to music that is in 4/4 time. I even heard
one naively ask, "Why isn't the hustle a waltz, it
goes 1-2-3?" A Jet, meanwhile, almost has to
block out the phrasing in the music being played
and just concentrate on counting the &1-2-3,
because it seems so odd from a musical viewpoint
for the dance count to be disjoint from the natural
phrasing, almost disconcerting.
Music majors tend to be Jets. While perhaps
not vocal soloists, they can carry a tune and sing
in a choir with ease. They can hear a melody or
rhythm on the radio and almost immediately duplicate
it on their musical instrument. They might even
subconsciously walk down the aisle in the supermarket
to the beat of the music coming over the loud
speaker in the background without realizing they're
doing it. But you take them out onto the dance floor
and try to get them to duplicate a specific movement
and they easily get confused; at times it seems like
they cannot even so much as tell their right foot from
their left.
My theory is that eventually you can teach
a Jet to duplicate movement (it will take several
years to burn these new dance movement pathways
into his or her brian), and while the Jet's
movement will probably never be quite as elegant
and graceful as a Shark's, it will at least be
consistent with the music.
I'm told that eventually you can also burn
musicality into a Shark, but that also takes
a long time. I contend that the Shark will never
feel the music coursing through his veins quite
the same as a Jet, but you can get the Sharks to
be reasonably musical by having them concentrate
on the music almost analytically. From my
experience, they have to *think* about it, while
to a Jet it comes as naturally as a heartbeat
(just as movement comes naturally as a heartbeat
to the Shark).
In other words, a Shark has to concentrate to
be with the music, while a Jet would have to
concentrate *not* to be with the music. Similarly,
a Jet has to concentrate on executing flowing steps
gracefully, while a Shark would have to concentrate
to purposefully look awkward.
I'm thankful to be a Jet, because while it
takes years to teach a Jet movement, at least
there are many classes out there to do it (to wit,
just about every dance class). I agree with you
that there doesn't seem to be nearly as much help
out there for the Sharks. My only guess at trying
to help them would be to get them to play the
music as much as possible when they aren't dancing,
and just try to get it into their blood through
sheer repetition, similar to the Jet's approach to
learning movement.
Huck
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:14:50 -0700
From: david hodgson <tangoman7@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
Conserning the Jet's and Shark's metaphore. Not to
discount it, it makes some good points.
I had this image leap out of my head.
Hello my name is Sancho. I am some guy in the
neighborhood just trying to get to the Dance.
=====
Ever thus to the Spirit of the Dance
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 07:47:08 -0700
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: What tango is all about
Jonathan wrote (in response to Tom's remarks):
"....Most of
the things you say about leading a partner sound very
good to me, and I
believe that many dancers would find that focus quite
enough for
enjoyable
dancing. And then there are dancers who find the
delight they take in
the
execution of patterns and steps quite satisfying. And
I suppose I could
include those who don't even dance but enjoy listening
to the music..."
My comment concerns the last statement, about
"non-dancing" tangueros. I have known several
accomplished tangueros, and I call them that with all
the respect and admiration that term implies, who do
not dance a single step. BUT. They are walking
encyclopedias of tango knowledge, their understanding
and appreciation of and enthusiasm for the artform is
quite amazing, and they've been generous enough to
share a little of all that with me over the years.
They know all there is to know (or so it seems to
me:)) about the music, the musicians, the composers,
the history, the anecdotes, the lyrics and especially
the singers. I have spent many, many magical hours
listening to some extraordinary music in the company
of these fine tangueros (they have a collection of old
and rare tango music, as well as the newer stuff, that
would make any aficiondo green with envy) who
patiently pointed out to me the finer points of a
given composition, or its interpretation by a
partiicular artist, which has enriched my appreciation
and enjoyment of tango enormously. I shall be forever
in their debt for broadening and enhancing my frame of
reference on a subject that is so very near and dear
to my heart.
Why they chose not to dance? Who knows. I read
somewhere, perhaps even on this list, that some men
are afraid to dance, not just the tango, but in
general, because they do not wish to risk being
laughed at. (Does this mean that women are more
daring? Or more reckless? :)) Whether or not that is
the case here, I don't know, and I don't care. And it
doesn't matter. Not in the context of what these
gentlemen have to offer. One of them said something at
one time about not being interested in the "fancy"
tango styles being exported these days. I just let it
go at that. However, I must admit that there have been
times when I selfishly wished they could dance, too,
but it didn't happen. And probably never will. "Se va
la vida", as the tango suggests.
So, Jonathan, I believe you can most definitely
"include those who don't even dance but enjoy
listening to the music". Why wouldn't you? :)
I'm also interested in exploring further the topic "of
being so in the moment and rather unconscious" which
you and Tom have been discussing, and the relevance of
tango lyrics to one's interpretation of the music. But
those are subjects for another post. :)
By the way, Carolina, when I read your note, I
remembered a charming vals, to which I think you might
enjoy listening, if you haven't heard it already,
entitled, "Yo tan sol veinte aqos tenia," ("I was only
twenty years old"). Agustmn Magaldi sings it in the
version I have.
Luda
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Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 21:04:42 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: "What tango is all about"
A few days ago, Tom English wrote:
>Here's the problem: The leader's mind is taxed. How can
>he dance to the phrases in the music if he can't think
>where to step next.
Actually the same holds in music or dance (Jet or Shark). It is easier to
play or dance your own phrase than someone else's. I think quite often
instructors fail to consider what the student is going through to learn the
movement they are teaching. The instructors falsely jump ahead to the idea
that the student doesn't understand the rhythm... I think it is preferable
to work throught the movements at a slower pace, and having put the
movements into one's body to then work on timing.
With best regards,
Steve
Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
