1362 when is tango not tango?
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:55:00 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
When is tango not tango?
I don't believe any of it was meant as a joke, Farkyu, but perhaps Rick
should clarify.
Tango as a dance has always been evolving, with new steps being created and
popularized by maestros of whatever era. And recent history is no exception.
Gustavo and Fabian's style has been called Nuevo Tango, but it's still
tango. Chicho is even more non-traditional, as compared to the 40's and
50's, but it's still tango.
In the context of the Wednesday practicas in Portland, the first meaning is
that only the MUSIC is non-traditional. "Traditional" tango, with the same
steps and patterns, can be danced to just about any 4/4 count music. Most
milongas heavily favor music from the Golden Era of tango. That's
"Traditional" with a capital "T." So if you dance to "modern" music, you may
still be dancing "traditional" tango STEPS, but the music is definitely
non-traditional. Even that bhat bothers some people who feel that the music
imparts moods or emotions or dynamics that are essential to "real" tango,
where by "real" I mean a whole thing that is much more than just the steps.
I personally see such similarities between the emotional angst of tango and
that of American Blues, of which Rock and Roll is a derivative, that I don't
personally have any objection to the extrapolation. Many purists disagree.
On the other hand when you're experimenting with modern music that's on the
edge of tango-ability, it's easy to slip off the cliff and end up with music
that is very difficult to dance to.
But as far as the steps, Andrew is right that non-standard music, with
rhythms or melody patterns that are not usually found in traditional tango
music do seem to prompt more experimentation, "dancing outside the box." I'd
argue that it's still tango, though. I tell people that tango is the jazz of
partner dancing, and improvisation is the rule, with any step being legal,
unbound by dogma or rigid patterns. The connection between the partners, and
some principles of form and line, are relatively stable, but otherwise
experimentation is allowed. Now I should say that's my personal opinion. At
the same time it's true that the Buenos Aires Establishment, like all
institutions, only changes slowly. Chicho for example took many years before
he was accepted by the older milongueros and indeed there may still be
holdouts that disapprove of his dancing.
Other things are likewise slow to be accepted. There is a woman teacher in
Portland last year who made her workshop students promise they wouldn't
"tell on her," because she was teaching followers how to "back lead" certain
steps, for example increasing the speed of rotation of a rock step turn, or
sneaking in an un-led gancho by over-rotating a back ocho. Some leaders find
such things spice up the dance. Others, more traditionalists or purists, can
react with extreme emotions at such things, like it's heresy or something.
I guess the answer boils down to, "it depends on who you ask."
J in Portland
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 00:10:45 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
>When is tango not tango?
>
Tango dancing is NOT JUST DOING RANDOM TANGO MOVEMENTS TO 4/4/ MUSIC.
I see far too many N. Americans doing random tango movements to TANGO
music.
I'm willing to do tango movements to other kinds of music, but they
have to make SOME kind of TANGO sense; that is the movements have to
MEAN something TANGO or tango-like.
When is Swing, not Swing, or when is Lindy not Lindy?
Is the similar question ever raised in Swing-dance circles?
Why do lindy hoppers like to use all that moldy old, non-hifi music
from the 1930s?
What about Jive, Triple-step swing, Rock&Roll or Jitterbug? I'm not
even going to touch the version of swing dancing you might see in
Buenos Aires, done to traditional New Orleans style jazz.
What about dancing swing to John Coltrane? It is all jazz, isn't it?
Well, to me, Coltrane doesn't SWING, just like Piazzolla doesn't
TANGO.
To look more closely at an interesting example. Of all the other
swing dances, West Coast Swing is almost the same dance as Lindy
Swing, but....
WCS vocabulary is almost identical to Lindy except the music is
slower, movements are straightened into a slot instead of a circle,
and there is something funny happening with the rock-steps...But, the
main difference is the music, and the dancer's interpretation of the
music...Instead of Ella Fitzgerald from the 1930s, WCS uses
everything from classic Chicago Blues to Motown, to R&B (1950s and
1990s) to the latest rap songs of Eminem and pop hits of Brittany
Spears.
One might argue that WCS is much more diverse, expressive and
interpretive than Lindy, but I'd really just say it is another dance,
even though the basic vocabulary is so similar to Lindy.
I personally am very traditional about the FEEL of tango... The
crucial "authentic" aspect of tango is found in what it means to
associate tango movements with tango music, just as the crucial
"authentic" feel of lindy hop comes from how swing dancers associate
their movements with the 1930s swing music. If you do the same
movements to John Coltrane (or Brittany Spears), you've lost
everything remotely "Lindy-like".
Lorena McKenna's "Tango for Evora" isn't tango, but it works because
it has such an ultra-romantic sensibility. For N. Americans it
captures the same romance that Argentines feel in Fresedo/Ray or
Calo/Podesta. Nelly Furtado's "On the Radio" or Sublime's "Doin'
Time" work because there is this extremely interesting interplay
between different melodic and rhythmic lines, similar to what an
Argentine tango dancer finds in D'Arienzo's "Retintin", or Troilo's
"Cachirulo".
--
Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org/
stermitz@tango.org
303-388-2560
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2003 23:25:17 -0700
From: Leopoldo Betrico <iwanttotango@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
--- Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> In the context of the Wednesday practicas in
> Portland, the first meaning is
> that only the MUSIC is non-traditional.
> "Traditional" tango, with the same
> steps and patterns, can be danced to just about any
> 4/4 count music.
Hello Jay,
I would be very hestitant to associate time signature
with tango (the dance). For example, salsa is written
in 4/4 (I'm pretty sure), and it would be extremely
difficult if not impossible to get the "traditional
feel" of dancing tango to salsa music. It's rhythm is
a bit more complex, different, and tempo is a bit
faster. Tango's rhythms are relatively simple
(musically), unlike african music, flameco, etc.
Second, most tangos are written in 4/8, milongas in
2/4, and tango vals in 6/8 (or 3/4).
As for what is or is not tango, I think we need to
clarify the context we're using the word in. The word
milonga can mean the music, the dance, or a dance
party depending on context. Tango on the other hand,
can mean many more sorts of things in different
context - the culture, the dance, the music, the
connection, the feeling, the community (family), etc.
We must be precise in clarifying the context,
otherwise people like my parents and grandparents will
get extremely upset because of the misunderstanding...
As for "the dance", I don't believe there are any
steps or patterns, just connection and communication
(but then again, I'm of the younger generation here in
BsAs). And I agree with you that the feeling can
transcend many genre of music.
Please excuse my English if I do not use the words
correctly.
Best,
L.
=====
Leopoldo Betrico
Buenos Aires
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 09:38:18 -0700
From: Larry Duke <auto_d20@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
--- Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG> wrote:
> When is tango not tango?
> .....
>Well, to me, ..... Piazzolla doesn't TANGO.
>
I can't hear you.
One lesson that's very hard to learn, to really learn,
is to not listen to cretins. By cretin I mean what in
the popular parlance might also be described as idiots
or fatuous gasbags, morons, fools, or retards.
I can't hear you.
I can't hear you.
I can't hear you.
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:25:06 -0700
From: Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
Larry Duke <auto_d20@YAHOO.COM> wrote on Fri, 6 Jun 2003
> --- Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG> wrote:
> > When is tango not tango?
> > .....
> >Well, to me, ..... Piazzolla doesn't TANGO.
> >
> I can't hear you.
>
> One lesson that's very hard to learn, to really learn,
> is to not listen to cretins. By cretin I mean what in
> the popular parlance might also be described as idiots
> or fatuous gasbags, morons, fools, or retards.
>
> I can't hear you.
>
> I can't hear you.
>
> I can't hear you.
Larry, and list,
I am responding not to defend Tom as he can do that fine himself.
I am not responding because I agree with either Tom or Larry. I have begun
writing a response to Tom's post and am still thinking about important
issues he raised.
I'm responding, Larry, because your response does not contribute
to a dialogue. Art is such a matter of taste and Tom clearly stated that
it was his personal response to Piazzolla. I am always amused that The
Rites of Spring was an occasion for violence amongst music lovers, but I
don't approve of that. I will state here that I disapprove of name calling
when tastes disagree. I would be interested in learning what you enjoy or
find important in Piazzolla, or how you like dancing to his music, etc.
I suppose because I work with children and am wearily hanging in
till school is out, I hope to find more logical discussions on this list.
Love Piazzolla passionately, hate his music passionately, or just don't
care very much for it, whatever, but take time to think about what it is
you can say that could be useful to those of us interested in art, music,
and dance. Otherwise, as is often the case in newsgroups, discussions
break down into childish repetition of "Is So", "Is Not", and no one says
anything of interest, nothing is learned. It all becomes empty bandwidth
that I abandon. Or, come to think of it, take it over to rec.arts.dance,
there is a group there that call each other names in threads that have
exceeded 100 posts!
peace,
Jonathan Thornton
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 10:43:02 -0700
From: Larry Duke <auto_d20@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
Jonathan,
Your point is well taken. My apologies to the List.
It's just that I was astonished by the silence of the
Argentine population of this list, especially the
musicians.
As for my views on Piazzolla music, I believe that he
saved the Tango. Yes, it's hard to learn to dance to
it, but it is hard to dance to Pugliese's version of
"Emancipacion" also. Or is that "not Tango" either?
Cheers,
El Duke.
--- Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM> wrote:
> Larry Duke <auto_d20@YAHOO.COM> wrote on Fri, 6 Jun
> 2003
>
> > --- Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG> wrote:
> > > When is tango not tango?
> > > .....
> > >Well, to me, ..... Piazzolla doesn't TANGO.
> > >
> > I can't hear you.
> >
> > One lesson that's very hard to learn, to really
> learn,
> > is to not listen to cretins. By cretin I mean what
> in
> > the popular parlance might also be described as
> idiots
> > or fatuous gasbags, morons, fools, or retards.
> >
> > I can't hear you.
> >
> > I can't hear you.
> >
> > I can't hear you.
>
> Larry, and list,
> I am responding not to defend Tom as he can
> do that fine himself.
> I am not responding because I agree with either Tom
> or Larry. I have begun
> writing a response to Tom's post and am still
> thinking about important
> issues he raised.
> I'm responding, Larry, because your response
> does not contribute
> to a dialogue. Art is such a matter of taste and Tom
> clearly stated that
> it was his personal response to Piazzolla. I am
> always amused that The
> Rites of Spring was an occasion for violence amongst
> music lovers, but I
> don't approve of that. I will state here that I
> disapprove of name calling
> when tastes disagree. I would be interested in
> learning what you enjoy or
> find important in Piazzolla, or how you like dancing
> to his music, etc.
> I suppose because I work with children and
> am wearily hanging in
> till school is out, I hope to find more logical
> discussions on this list.
> Love Piazzolla passionately, hate his music
> passionately, or just don't
> care very much for it, whatever, but take time to
> think about what it is
> you can say that could be useful to those of us
> interested in art, music,
> and dance. Otherwise, as is often the case in
> newsgroups, discussions
> break down into childish repetition of "Is So", "Is
> Not", and no one says
> anything of interest, nothing is learned. It all
> becomes empty bandwidth
> that I abandon. Or, come to think of it, take it
> over to rec.arts.dance,
> there is a group there that call each other names in
> threads that have
> exceeded 100 posts!
>
> peace,
> Jonathan Thornton
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 13:06:10 -0500
From: Bibi Wong <bibibwong@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: when is tango not tango?
To the Duke
>Yes, it's hard to learn to dance to it, but it is hard to dance to
>Pugliese's version of Emancipacion" also. Or is that "not Tango" either?
It is tango, and...
200% danceable in ease. Even in close embrace.
(just to be sure, I am listening to it now) To me, it is a dialogue between
two person, not neccessarily lovers, but of different characters or styles
of speech, with questions and answers, feverishly exchanging their ideas at
the climax of that song, both were enlighted as they came to an agreement,
and they hugged in joy if not exhaustion.
Wow, what a great way to dance to it, talk about role playing....
BB (wondering what she has been drinking this morning)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 12:34:03 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
>Jonathan,
>
>Your point is well taken. My apologies to the List.
>It's just that I was astonished by the silence of the
>Argentine population of this list, especially the
>musicians.
>
>As for my views on Piazzolla music, I believe that he
>saved the Tango. Yes, it's hard to learn to dance to
>it, but it is hard to dance to Pugliese's version of
>"Emancipacion" also. Or is that "not Tango" either?
>
>Cheers,
>El Duke.
El Duke or la duchesa.
This makes for a more courteous discussion.
Is Piazzolla best classified as tango music? Maybe it should be
called Jazz or modern/compositional?
One wouldn't polka to Piazzolla either, even if he does play an
accordion-like instrument. Hmm, Libertango and Polka....that's what I
was reminded of last time I saw Libertango played at a milonga.
I'm not even such a purist as I'm coming off right now. I will play
Piazzolla's "Oblivion" on occasion, as well as other "non-tango"
tangos.
Tango movements do not equal tango dancing.
In this parallel metaphor Piazzolla doesn't "tango" just as Coltrane
doesn't "swing". Where Troilo's "Cachirulo" uses 3-3-2 as an
occasional rhythmic counterpoint to the 4/4 (or 2/4 or 4/8)
foundation, Piazzolla's near constant use of the 3-3-2 rhythm removes
the 4/4 heartbeat of tango, and changes the dance into something else.
Many people outside of Argentina are unfamiliar with the cultural
basis and dance sensibility of "real" argentine tango. Many have been
taught tango movements but to watch them perform those movements, it
doesn't look much like tango.
How do you get them to feel the music?
How do you get them to put tango MEANING into their movements?
The point I was making, is that the FEEL of the music makes the
dance, and just as swing dancers don't pick any random JAZZ music for
a Lindy Hop, tango DJs don't select random music for a milonga.
Performance dance is an entirely different creature.
A modern dance company might play with swing movements against John
Coltrane (or John Cage?), but at a social dance, you need swing music
with a certain tempo that really "swings" for the dancers to feel
comfortable doing Lindy Hop.
--
Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org/
stermitz@tango.org
303-388-2560
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 18:03:06 -0300
From: Ruben Carlos Terbalca <rubenmilonga@SINECTIS.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
Larry,
Don't be astonished.-
We feel this is a foreign discussion.
(We = the kind of people to was born in the tango dance culture).-
We feel our opinions necessary will be refused (by experiences).-
Sorry
Ruben
(1944)
Buenos Aires
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, 06 de June de 2003 2:43 p.m.
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] when is tango not tango?
> Jonathan,
>
> Your point is well taken. My apologies to the List.
> It's just that I was astonished by the silence of the
> Argentine population of this list, especially the
> musicians.
>
> As for my views on Piazzolla music, I believe that he
> saved the Tango. Yes, it's hard to learn to dance to
> it, but it is hard to dance to Pugliese's version of
> "Emancipacion" also. Or is that "not Tango" either?
>
> Cheers,
> El Duke.
>
>
> --- Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM> wrote:
> > Larry Duke <auto_d20@YAHOO.COM> wrote on Fri, 6 Jun
> > 2003
> >
> > > --- Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG> wrote:
> > > > When is tango not tango?
> > > > .....
> > > >Well, to me, ..... Piazzolla doesn't TANGO.
> > > >
> > > I can't hear you.
> > >
> > > One lesson that's very hard to learn, to really
> > learn,
> > > is to not listen to cretins. By cretin I mean what
> > in
> > > the popular parlance might also be described as
> > idiots
> > > or fatuous gasbags, morons, fools, or retards.
> > >
> > > I can't hear you.
> > >
> > > I can't hear you.
> > >
> > > I can't hear you.
> >
> > Larry, and list,
> > I am responding not to defend Tom as he can
> > do that fine himself.
> > I am not responding because I agree with either Tom
> > or Larry. I have begun
> > writing a response to Tom's post and am still
> > thinking about important
> > issues he raised.
> > I'm responding, Larry, because your response
> > does not contribute
> > to a dialogue. Art is such a matter of taste and Tom
> > clearly stated that
> > it was his personal response to Piazzolla. I am
> > always amused that The
> > Rites of Spring was an occasion for violence amongst
> > music lovers, but I
> > don't approve of that. I will state here that I
> > disapprove of name calling
> > when tastes disagree. I would be interested in
> > learning what you enjoy or
> > find important in Piazzolla, or how you like dancing
> > to his music, etc.
> > I suppose because I work with children and
> > am wearily hanging in
> > till school is out, I hope to find more logical
> > discussions on this list.
> > Love Piazzolla passionately, hate his music
> > passionately, or just don't
> > care very much for it, whatever, but take time to
> > think about what it is
> > you can say that could be useful to those of us
> > interested in art, music,
> > and dance. Otherwise, as is often the case in
> > newsgroups, discussions
> > break down into childish repetition of "Is So", "Is
> > Not", and no one says
> > anything of interest, nothing is learned. It all
> > becomes empty bandwidth
> > that I abandon. Or, come to think of it, take it
> > over to rec.arts.dance,
> > there is a group there that call each other names in
> > threads that have
> > exceeded 100 posts!
> >
> > peace,
> > Jonathan Thornton
>
>
>
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:09:00 -0700
From: Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG> wrote Fri, 6 Jun 2003:
> What about dancing swing to John Coltrane? It is all jazz, isn't it?
> Well, to me, Coltrane doesn't SWING, just like Piazzolla doesn't
> TANGO.
Tom,
You raise very interesting issues. Coltrane does swing, but not
the way big bands do. Neither he nor Piazzolla were interested in
supporting social dance. They wanted their music listened to.
> To look more closely at an interesting example. Of all the other
> swing dances, West Coast Swing is almost the same dance as Lindy
> Swing, but....
> One might argue that WCS is much more diverse, expressive and
> interpretive than Lindy, but I'd really just say it is another dance,
> even though the basic vocabulary is so similar to Lindy.
I like using evolutionary thinking to understand this. WCS developed out
of Lindy. And WCS seems to be evolving whereas Lindy may be on it's way
to being a vintage dance. Latin is spoken only in very narrow
enclaves having been replaced by Italian, French, and Spanish. Dealing
with music forms and the dances that are done to them we are dealing with
evolving lineages that flow together and flow apart. A watershed woven of
diverse strands. Looking at a particular time and place definition is
easier, but 100 years later, 10,000 miles away?
> I personally am very traditional about the FEEL of tango... The
> crucial "authentic" aspect of tango is found in what it means to
> associate tango movements with tango music, ...
For purposes of discussion at the moment, I'm content to accept tango as
it is danced in BsAs this year as "authentic" tango.
> "authentic" feel of lindy hop comes from how swing dancers associate
> their movements with the 1930s swing music. If you do the same
> movements to John Coltrane (or Brittany Spears), you've lost
> everything remotely "Lindy-like".
I just don't know what to make of the notion of "authentic feel". It
sounds very subjective to me, which is fine, except that leaves it to each
individual as to what is authentic feel to them. It's my fantasy that
Borges would be able to write a story to illuminate this dilemma, but it's
beyond me at the moment.
> Lorena McKenna's "Tango for Evora" isn't tango, but it works because
> it has such an ultra-romantic sensibility. For N. Americans it
> captures the same romance that Argentines feel in Fresedo/Ray or
>
> Tom Stermitz
Now, Tom, here is what I really respond to in your post. But to meander a
bit. For reason of self image I would like to be a wine lover. I actually
do enjoy a glass of wine with a meal from time to time. I can appreciate
and enjoy certain wines, but honestly what my body/brain responds to
enthusiastically are craft ales! Big, malty, flavorfully hopped ales bring
me a delight, that much as I appreciate a wine, I just never experience
drinking them.
I was obsessed with tango the dance for a few years. A
few years back the obsession dissipated and I was struck with the
knowledge that tango music and dance are wines to me. I can appreciate
them but they don't light up my heart. I've learned a lot from tango and
even hope to learn more, but when Bob Dylan sings "I used to care, but
times have changed", or Eric Clapton sings and plays, "Nobody knows you
when you're down and out". That is what I really want to dance. It's not
tango music or dance, yet the fundamentals I learned are there: one step
at a time, crossed and parallel systems, walking back ochos, turns, and
focusing on the feeling instead of amalgamations of syllabus approved step
combinations. It's not tango movement. I'm not Argentine and if I had the
capacity this late in life to learn to move as a native, to be honest, I
want to move the way I feel music.
Tango is a river. The waters of music, dance, feeling flow in many
channels. The authentic tango may be the river that flows in Argentina,
but elsewhere the scenery changes. I am hoping that tango will bestow
certain sensibilities onto descendents danced to music that I feel most
deeply, and played on instruments like guitar and slide guitar that I
frankly enjoy much more than accordions or bandoneons as instruments.
I'm pleased they are experimenting in Portland, because I just don't enjoy
tango music or dancing as much as I enjoy the soaring Celtic derived
melodies of the folk based popular music of today, and I desire a more
flowing form of dance. Please, note, I'm not criticizing tango in any way,
other than to note that it is only a so so fit for me.
This list is properly about Argentine Tango. I believe that also can
include discussion about the descendants of tango whether one finds those
descendants to be legitimate of not. William the Bastard, Duke of Normandy,
the illegitimate son of Duke Robert, conquered England and oppressed the
Anglo-Saxons peoples for a long spell, yet the English language emerged
enriched by that experience. Such are the twists and turns of the mystery
of life. A concern for purity is conceptual. Actual life is messy,
convoluted, intertwined, interdependent, and quite impure in all it's
vibrant exuberance.
peace,
Jonathan Thornton
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 14:18:41 -0700
From: Ward Stevens <wcstevens@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
I think that the following interchange between Tom and Jonathan
is the key to this thread: should we respect the wishes of an
artist?:
===========================================================================
Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG> wrote Fri, 6 Jun 2003:
> What about dancing swing to John Coltrane? It is all jazz, isn't it?
> Well, to me, Coltrane doesn't SWING, just like Piazzolla doesn't
> TANGO.
Tom,
You raise very interesting issues. Coltrane does swing, but not
the way big bands do. Neither he nor Piazzolla were interested in
supporting social dance. They wanted their music listened to.
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 23:20:40 +0200
From: andy Ungureanu <andy.ungureanu@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
Ruben Carlos Terbalca wrote:
> Larry,
> Don't be astonished.-
> We feel this is a foreign discussion.
> (We = the kind of people to was born in the tango dance culture).-
> We feel our opinions necessary will be refused (by experiences).-
Please Ruben, forget your (bad)experiences, I would prefer to read your
opinion instead of the ones presented by the "high-fidelity &
alternative Tango" adicts.
If a few refuse your opinion, there are others (56 - "few") who may
apreciate it.
The name of the List is still:
TANGO-L list(Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango)
and not "... aspect of any kind of tango"
Andy
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 17:54:30 -0700
From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
Why don't we just acknowledge that there is a new variety of tango -- as
what Rick describes would not be considered Argentine tango in Argentina
(Ruben could weigh in on this). So besides Argentine tango, American tango,
and International style tango, we now have Alternative Tango, which could be
shortened to Alt Tango. On second thought that might be confusing to
speakers of German, because I think (although my knowledge of that language
is limited to Eingang Verboten from a brief but eventful auto trip) that Alt
means 'Old'. So we might call it Contempory Tango, or Contemp Tango for
short. Or AltCon which sounds like one of the energy companies which so
royally ripped off the state of California.
Just an idea,
Barbara
PS. I am not talking about the tangoness of Piazzolla, but of the dance
culture of tango. There is lots of music not usually danced to that is no
less tango than the 500 or so tracks favored by traditional DJs in Buenos
Aires. Of course Piazzolla is tango, but I heard him say in person that
'tango is not for dancing'.
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2003 23:20:35 -0700
From: Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
I'm still waiting for a precise definition of what exactly real Argentine Tango is? What, exactly, are the moves that you can & can't do? What, exactly, is the music you can & can't play. Doesn't seem to be a whole lot of agreement there. How about a conglomeration, 1/3 GA music, 1/3 contemporary high-fi Tango music, 1/3 alternative/non-tango music? People are free to do whatever moves they want, or are they?
Rick
PS: My bros-in-law works for Portland General Electric here in Portland, which was bought by Kenny "Boy" Lay & his buddies at Enron. His $500K stock retirement is now worthless. Hmmm... Guess he has to keep working...
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2003 22:49:26 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: when is tango not tango?
Ruben,
I echo Andy. Please share with us your perspective. We're talking about
the evolution of tango. Please tell us what you can about Gustavo and Chicho
(or any other masters who were agents of change) and how they changed tango
and how that change was accepted or not by what was "traditional" at that
time.
J
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