5346 Don't blame your follower ...keys
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 11:50:09 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys
To: tango-l@mit.edu
--- Keith <keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
> One final question to the many expert followers out
> there. If I guy overled a Boleo, would you follow though
> and hit the guy's leg or
> would you control the Boleo and not hit his leg? I admit
> I don't know the 'correct' answer.
>
> Keith, HK
To answer your question, if I didn't know the guy well, I'd
stop my boleo before hitting his leg. If he's a friend or
if we've been playing a little while during the tanda, I'd
smack away. I'd say it's a trust issue. Can't say that
I've been led to hit the guy's leg much, though, during
milongas.
This thread reminds me of something I heard a few years
ago. It used to be that men in BsAs would hang their keys
>from belt or pants. And the women would try to hit the
keys to get them to jingle during boleos and possibly
ganchos. Anyone else familiar with that?
Trini de Pittsburgh
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
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Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:24:57 -0800
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Once a woman hit my vallet in my back pocket. It was a lot of fun!
She did not kick it out though ;)
Igor Polk
Trini:
"..the women would try to hit the
keys to get them to jingle during boleos.."
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 12:44:18 -0800 (PST)
From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys
To: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>, tango-l@mit.edu
Well, in the US, janitors and truck drivers often wear their large
key rings on their belts.
And a high class woman don't want no maintenance man.
"Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- Keith wrote:
> One final question to the many expert followers out
> there. If I guy overled a Boleo, would you follow though
> and hit the guy's leg or
> would you control the Boleo and not hit his leg? I admit
> I don't know the 'correct' answer.
>
> Keith, HK
To answer your question, if I didn't know the guy well, I'd
stop my boleo before hitting his leg. If he's a friend or
if we've been playing a little while during the tanda, I'd
smack away. I'd say it's a trust issue. Can't say that
I've been led to hit the guy's leg much, though, during
milongas.
This thread reminds me of something I heard a few years
ago. It used to be that men in BsAs would hang their keys
>from belt or pants. And the women would try to hit the
keys to get them to jingle during boleos and possibly
ganchos. Anyone else familiar with that?
Trini de Pittsburgh
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:05:35 -0600
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys
To: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<cff24c340712161605x584990f0md69bbad5392d88ee@mail.gmail.com>
On 12/16/07, Trini y Sean (PATangoS) <patangos@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> This thread reminds me of something I heard a few years
> ago. It used to be that men in BsAs would hang their keys
> from belt or pants. And the women would try to hit the
> keys to get them to jingle during boleos and possibly
> ganchos. Anyone else familiar with that?
Trini,
I think this is another tango urban myth. Women in Buenos Aires milongas
don't use ganchos and the few boleos that are used are kept on the floor.
Ron
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 20:01:59 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys
I think this was possibly during a time period when keys
were more of the skeletal type. I'm not familiar with the
history of locks, but this type probably may not have fit
in pockets comfortably. Based on the footage that I've
seen, women were doing ganchos and high boleos.
Trini
--- Tango Society of Central Illinois
<tango.society@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/16/07, Trini y Sean (PATangoS) <patangos@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > This thread reminds me of something I heard a few years
> > ago. It used to be that men in BsAs would hang their
> keys
> > from belt or pants. And the women would try to hit the
> > keys to get them to jingle during boleos and possibly
> > ganchos. Anyone else familiar with that?
>
>
>
> Trini,
>
> I think this is another tango urban myth. Women in Buenos
> Aires milongas
> don't use ganchos and the few boleos that are used are
> kept on the floor.
>
> Ron
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:51:49 -0600
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys
<cff24c340712170751r35ee3331je04d9a4522498bec@mail.gmail.com>
On 12/16/07, Trini y Sean (PATangoS) <patangos@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I think this was possibly during a time period when keys
> were more of the skeletal type. I'm not familiar with the
> history of locks, but this type probably may not have fit
> in pockets comfortably. Based on the footage that I've
> seen, women were doing ganchos and high boleos.
>
> Trini
The only film footage of supposed social tango I've seen from the golden age
has been from movies. I don't recall seeing any ganchos or boleos. If you
have footage from actual golden age milongas showing ganchos and boleos,
please share it with us or provide a reference. Perhaps it is another urban
tango myth, but my understanding is that the use of ganchos and high boleos
was frowned upon in the past as it is today.
The lack of ganchos and high boleos in milongas in Buenos Aires leads one to
ask "Why are dancers outside Argentina so interested in learning these moves
that are not recognized as acceptable social dancing in Buenos Aires?" If
more people went to Buenos Aires, observed how porten~os dance at the
milongas, perhaps all the workshops outside Argentina teaching ganchos,
boleos, volcadas, colgadas and the like would be empty.
Why don't people outside Argentina care if the way they dance at their
milongas looks nothing like the way porten~os dance in Buenos Aires
milongas? There is a culture and customs that are part of tango, but very
few people make the effort to try to understand them. They prefer to
interpret tango within the context of their own cultural worldview.
Ron
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 09:18:11 -0800 (PST)
From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys
To: Tango Society of Central Illinois <tango.society@gmail.com>,
On Thursday the 13th Mario requested tips on
"Close embrace in close quarters".
I have yet to see a sinlge response.
Meanwhile, there have been more than 20 responses in the
"Boleo & Contra-boleo" thread.
I guess this speaks volumes about the interests of our
on line community.
Tango Society of Central Illinois <tango.society@gmail.com> wrote: Why don't people outside Argentina care if the way they dance at their
milongas looks nothing like the way porten~os dance in Buenos Aires
milongas? There is a culture and customs that are part of tango, but very
few people make the effort to try to understand them. They prefer to
interpret tango within the context of their own cultural worldview.
Ron
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Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:46:04 -0700
From: <doug@swingfusion.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys & Clasico vs.
Nuevo
<Ron> Why are dancers outside Argentina so interested in learning these
moves
that are not recognized as acceptable social dancing in Buenos Aires?" If
more people went to Buenos Aires, observed how porten~os dance at the
milongas, perhaps all the workshops outside Argentina teaching ganchos,
boleos, volcadas, colgadas and the like would be empty.
</Ron>
I am extremely confused by your post. Are you suggesting that the only
dance "real tango" dancers would/should want to learn is "Tango Clasico"?
Do you think that my knowledge that portenos do not do ganchos, boleos,
volcadas, colgadas etc. lessens their interest to me and others of the Nuevo
persuasion? Should we eject Fabian and his ilk from the world of "real
tango" dancers? I honestly don't get what you are trying to say.
As to why dancers are interested in these moves, I can only speak for
myself and my partner. We very much enjoy the athleticism and intellectual
aspects of these moves. Our connection is, although certainly different
>from that in Milonguero style, at least as strong and enjoyable. What don't
you get about this?
And contrary to what some on this list appear to believe, these moves are
not necessarily for show. In public, my partner & I dance whatever appears
appropriate, including strict close embrace as taught to us by a dedicated
student and former partner of one of the better known portenos (since
passed) from whom we take private lessons two to four hours every month. In
private, because it is athletic, very closely connected and hugely fun, we
dance more of a Nuevo style. We do NOT do this as a show dance. Many
people who never perform and never intend to still learn and practice
ballet, Tai Chi and other forms of movement. What ARE you saying?
D.
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:19:46 -0500
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys
The obvious answer Steve is ... lead the way.
What Mario actually asked was .... "which Tango sequences (patterns) can be danced
in close embrace ... as I want to spend my time learning/practising only those
patterns ..."
If anyone had attempted to provide such information, he would have been mercilessly
flamed by the list. I did think about correcting Mario's perceptions about how Tango
should be danced, i.e. without fixed and practiced patterns, but I figured I'd just
get flamed anyway for ... 'not being nice to a newbie', so I didn't bother.
Keith, HK
On Tue Dec 18 1:18 , steve pastor sent:
>On Thursday the 13th Mario requested tips on
> "Close embrace in close quarters".
> I have yet to see a sinlge response.
> Meanwhile, there have been more than 20 responses in the
> "Boleo & Contra-boleo" thread.
> I guess this speaks volumes about the interests of our
> on line community.
>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:06:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys
Hello, again, Keith!
Add in! Teachers fill their classes by teaching patterns. It is a necessary evil. But, in time, everyone must learn that ballroom is patterns and Argentine tango (well, except for show tango and coreography) is not.
Tango is in the body, not the patterns!!!!
Keith <keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
The obvious answer Steve is ... lead the way.
What Mario actually asked was .... "which Tango sequences (patterns) can be danced
in close embrace ... as I want to spend my time learning/practising only those
patterns ..."
If anyone had attempted to provide such information, he would have been mercilessly
flamed by the list. I did think about correcting Mario's perceptions about how Tango
should be danced, i.e. without fixed and practiced patterns, but I figured I'd just
get flamed anyway for ... 'not being nice to a newbie', so I didn't bother.
Keith, HK
On Tue Dec 18 1:18 , steve pastor sent:
>On Thursday the 13th Mario requested tips on
> "Close embrace in close quarters".
> I have yet to see a sinlge response.
> Meanwhile, there have been more than 20 responses in the
> "Boleo & Contra-boleo" thread.
> I guess this speaks volumes about the interests of our
> on line community.
>
Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:14:40 -0600
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys & Clasico vs.
Nuevo
To: "doug@swingfusion.com" <doug@swingfusion.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<cff24c340712171114y59b7ee60o7b2f79d411c29c94@mail.gmail.com>
On 12/17/07, doug@swingfusion.com <doug@swingfusion.com> wrote:
>
> <Ron> Why are dancers outside Argentina so interested in learning these moves
>
> that are not recognized as acceptable social dancing in Buenos Aires?" If
>
> more people went to Buenos Aires, observed how porten~os dance at the
>
> milongas, perhaps all the workshops outside Argentina teaching ganchos,
>
> boleos, volcadas, colgadas and the like would be empty.
>
> </Ron>
>
>
>
> I am extremely confused by your post. Are you suggesting that the only
> dance "real tango" dancers would/should want to learn is "Tango Clasico"?
> Do you think that my knowledge that portenos do not do ganchos, boleos,
> volcadas, colgadas etc. lessens their interest to me and others of the Nuevo
> persuasion? Should we eject Fabian and his ilk from the world of "real
> tango" dancers? I honestly don't get what you are trying to say.
>
There should be no confusion. Tango Nuevo is not danced at milongas in
Buenos Aires. Thus, it is not social Argentine tango. Outside Argentina,
Tango Nuevo is commonly danced socially at milongas. There is a
misrepresentation of tango culture here. if you want to create a new social
tango dance form, at least label it differently (i.e., Tango Nuevo) so that
people know what to expect.
This is not the first time in history tango has been misrepresented in its
migration to another cultural background. This happened about 100 years
again with the creation of ballroom tango. Here we go again.
As to why dancers are interested in these moves, I can only speak for
> myself and my partner. We very much enjoy the athleticism and intellectual
> aspects of these moves. Our connection is, although certainly different
> from that in Milonguero style, at least as strong and enjoyable. What don't
> you get about this?
>
What don't you get about representating tango culture accurately in milongas
outside Argentina?
Social Argentine Tango is not about athleticism or even intellectualism.
Even improvisation is not something that is planned intellectually; it comes
out of you at the moment, without forethought. The music and the floor space
determine the possibilities.
Social Argentine Tango is about connection with partner and music and the
emotion that is aroused in that connection. That is its unique beauty.
However, outside Argentina dancers see tango as steps. Somebody missed the
train.
And contrary to what some on this list appear to believe, these moves are
> not necessarily for show.
>
And they are not suitable for milongas in Buenos Aires. If you change that,
you are redefining the customs of social tango, and it is no longer
genuinely Argentine.
Ron
>
> D.
>
>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:51:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys & Clasico vs.
Nuevo
To: Tango Society of Central Illinois <tango.society@gmail.com>,
"doug@swingfusion.com" <doug@swingfusion.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
To difuse this a bit ...
How do you make money in tango? Give what people want! The trick to filling your classroom AND keep them coming is to keep the attention of the intermediate and advanced leaders. Any teacher knows that!
Intermediate dancers want to learn tricks and patterns. (This is only my observation. This is a genaralization. This is not meant to offend anyone!) So, if you are a visiting teacher, you had better be known for teaching "cool moves"!
America is a capitalist society. People show up with their money and those with the most interesting *stuff* reap the benefits.
Have you noticed that the largest, most successful classes have the attention of the intemediate leaders? Look, if you have a beginner class under your belt, where do you go from there? Do you go to the class of the teacher who is teaching [ technique, patterns, etc ]? No. It doesn't matter, as much, what the teacher is teaching. It matters where you can dance with non-beginners. I mean to say that it matters less whether the teacher is the better teacher. It matters more whether you can dance with people who are better than you. You want to get better at basketball? Play with people who are better than you. Etc. Ummm, and, of course, get a good teacher.
So, again, how do you have success as a teacher of tango classes? Fill your room! How do you do that? Create a society! People come to classes, repeatedly because they feel comfortable. It's a society. So, if you are smart, you are going to provide whatever it is that will pay for that room and give you a little extra. Keep the interest of those intermediate, and advanced-intermediate, leaders! It is my honest opinion that you keep their attention by giving them something to show off. Patterns! (Trust me. I get bored teaching patterns. I like to see technique advancement. Give them darn leaders followers' technique classes! but, that's beside the point!)
Another point ... Even the women who KNOW that they don't lead ganchos in BsAs still ask me to lead ganchos.
So, that is my take on what happens in America.
Anyone care to elaborate on the BsAs milongas where the younger Argentines go?
Tango Society of Central Illinois <tango.society@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/17/07, doug@swingfusion.com wrote:
>
> Why are dancers outside Argentina so interested in learning these moves
>
> that are not recognized as acceptable social dancing in Buenos Aires?" If
>
> more people went to Buenos Aires, observed how porten~os dance at the
>
> milongas, perhaps all the workshops outside Argentina teaching ganchos,
>
> boleos, volcadas, colgadas and the like would be empty.
>
>
>
>
>
> I am extremely confused by your post. Are you suggesting that the only
> dance "real tango" dancers would/should want to learn is "Tango Clasico"?
> Do you think that my knowledge that portenos do not do ganchos, boleos,
> volcadas, colgadas etc. lessens their interest to me and others of the Nuevo
> persuasion? Should we eject Fabian and his ilk from the world of "real
> tango" dancers? I honestly don't get what you are trying to say.
>
There should be no confusion. Tango Nuevo is not danced at milongas in
Buenos Aires. Thus, it is not social Argentine tango. Outside Argentina,
Tango Nuevo is commonly danced socially at milongas. There is a
misrepresentation of tango culture here. if you want to create a new social
tango dance form, at least label it differently (i.e., Tango Nuevo) so that
people know what to expect.
This is not the first time in history tango has been misrepresented in its
migration to another cultural background. This happened about 100 years
again with the creation of ballroom tango. Here we go again.
As to why dancers are interested in these moves, I can only speak for
> myself and my partner. We very much enjoy the athleticism and intellectual
> aspects of these moves. Our connection is, although certainly different
> from that in Milonguero style, at least as strong and enjoyable. What don't
> you get about this?
>
What don't you get about representating tango culture accurately in milongas
outside Argentina?
Social Argentine Tango is not about athleticism or even intellectualism.
Even improvisation is not something that is planned intellectually; it comes
out of you at the moment, without forethought. The music and the floor space
determine the possibilities.
Social Argentine Tango is about connection with partner and music and the
emotion that is aroused in that connection. That is its unique beauty.
However, outside Argentina dancers see tango as steps. Somebody missed the
train.
And contrary to what some on this list appear to believe, these moves are
> not necessarily for show.
>
And they are not suitable for milongas in Buenos Aires. If you change that,
you are redefining the customs of social tango, and it is no longer
genuinely Argentine.
Ron
>
> D.
>
>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:36:01 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys & Clasico vs.
Nuevo
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
On Dec 17, 2007, at 12:51 PM, "Tango For Her" wrote:
> To difuse this a bit ...
>
> How do you make money in tango? Give what people want! The trick
> to filling your classroom AND keep them coming is to keep the
> attention of the intermediate and advanced leaders. Any teacher
> knows that!
>
> Intermediate dancers want to learn tricks and patterns. (This is
> only my observation. This is a genaralization. This is not meant
> to offend anyone!) So, if you are a visiting teacher, you had
> better be known for teaching "cool moves"!
How do you make money in tango? Get students to take lot of privates.
How do you get them to take privates? Teach really complicated figures
that they can't learn in class.
How do you get lots of privates? Focus on the women, as they are more
willing to take privates.
How do you get big classes? Follow the ballroom studio strategy, and
create a vertical community: Classes, privates, dances under one roof.
How do you keep them from going elsewhere? Teach them things that only
work within your own circe.
I prefer a different value: How do you build community?
(1) Teach material that is accessible to a wide audience, not just the
young or athletic.
(2) Make sure the guys leave successful from each group class.
(3) Work to build the wider community, not just your own milonga.
(4) Do field trips with your students to the community milongas.
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:36:31 -0300
From: Korey Ireland <korey@kodair.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys & Clasico vs.
Nuevo
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Bored now....
call your events whatever you like, but please don't generalize about
the "milongas in buenos aires." What you find hear depends entirely
on where you look, and there are so many places to look. The scene
here seems to become increasingly varied (well thats my perspective,
based on where I'm looking)
>
>
> Social Argentine Tango is about connection with partner and music
> and the
> emotion that is aroused in that connection. That is its unique beauty.
> However, outside Argentina dancers see tango as steps. Somebody
> missed the
> train.
>
Now here's something exciting. I'm noticing a number of really young
dancers in Buenos Aires dancing in a very energetic close embrace,
beautifully musical, extended vocabulary that includes many of the
elements on the "forbidden" list, and immensely popular at milongas
like el beso (which I presume is on the "approved list" - of course it
would depend on which night.) You've said it yourself: "its not
about the steps," and some dancers are able to find and express the
beautiful aspects of the social dance material with movements that are
not on your list. Do you exclude these dancers from the true tango?
Does it matter that they are living, dancing, learning in Buenos
Aires, should it matter?
>
> And they are not suitable for milongas in Buenos Aires. If you
> change that,
> you are redefining the customs of social tango, and it is no longer
> genuinely Argentine.
>
?Which Milongas in Buenos Aires?
?trying to (re)define the customs of social tango is that exactly what
you are doing?
?Genuinely Argetine? is tango as it exists now genuinely argentine?
would it better or worse if it was? does it matter?
I believe as a group we tangueros can get a bit stuck on what happens
in Buenos Aires (I'm no exception). Perhaps its more important what
happens in our home towns and how our efforts support, or detract from
the enjoyment of our shared experience of tango. I just don't see
the advantage of this "truth-in-advertising" angle on segregation.
First because the "truth" in this case is contentious, and second
because I'm not convinced the division is helpful for anyone.
just another perspective....
respectfully,
Korey
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:05:38 -0800 (PST)
From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys
The answer will emphasize steps, weight changes, and several steps
strung together, all of which can be danced pretty much in place.
If anyone wants to flame me for writing about "several steps strung
together", I can take the heat.
Meanwhile, Mario will, I think, appreciate any advice, regardless.
Don't wait for me if you have something he can use.
It takes time to write well (especially with a critcal audience),
especially about something as internal to the couple as "close
embrace".
And, I really was curious as to what kind of response he would get.
Keith <keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
The obvious answer Steve is ... lead the way.
What Mario actually asked was .... "which Tango sequences (patterns) can be danced
in close embrace ... as I want to spend my time learning/practising only those
patterns ..."
If anyone had attempted to provide such information, he would have been mercilessly
flamed by the list. I did think about correcting Mario's perceptions about how Tango
should be danced, i.e. without fixed and practiced patterns, but I figured I'd just
get flamed anyway for ... 'not being nice to a newbie', so I didn't bother.
Keith, HK
On Tue Dec 18 1:18 , steve pastor sent:
>On Thursday the 13th Mario requested tips on
> "Close embrace in close quarters".
> I have yet to see a sinlge response.
> Meanwhile, there have been more than 20 responses in the
> "Boleo & Contra-boleo" thread.
> I guess this speaks volumes about the interests of our
> on line community.
>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:14:14 -0700
From: <doug@swingfusion.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys & Clasico vs.
Nuevo
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>, <tangopeer@yahoo.com>,
<tango.society@gmail.com>
<TFH> Intermediate dancers want to learn tricks and patterns. (This is
only my observation. This is a genaralization. This is not meant to offend
anyone!) </TFH>
<Ron> Social Argentine Tango is about connection with partner and music and
the emotion that is aroused in that connection. That is its unique beauty.
However, outside Argentina dancers see tango as steps. Somebody missed the
train.</Ron>
I am not offended :-). But I did interpret these, and other comments
occasionally seen on the list, as implying that a fair portion of what
happens in the Nuevo dance is a trick or pattern.
I don't see a Volcada, for example as being any more of a step or trick or
pattern than, say, an ocho cortada. Both are led, you can stop either one
at any point and unwind the move, modify what happens next etc. Some leads
and some follows may interpret either as a step or pattern, but that is just
because they are not leading or following.
I, and most that I know who dance Nuevo moves, try to use the "forbidden
list" musically, in concert with partner and music and emotions. I think
that you do us a disservice by claiming that just because the steps are not
danced by the portenos, they are not musical, etc.
I also believe that, for many although perhaps not you, an intellectual
connection to your partner and the music can have all the emotional depth,
or more, of a non-intellectual connection.
D.
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 17:43:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Don't blame your follower ...keys & Clasico vs.
Nuevo
To: doug@swingfusion.com, tango-l@mit.edu, tango.society@gmail.com
Nuevo tango is cool. I, myself, found incredible success in soft tango. So, I try to pass along as much as I can. I observed that teachers that go out and find complicated patterns have that added component that I believe it takes to keep the longterm attention of leaders. I didn't say it was bad. I was just commenting on what I see as the trend in the United States.
Nuevo tango is one hell of alot of fun!!!
And, by the way, when you include the exchange of lead and follow in Nuevo tango, then, you fall much more into the realm of mastering followers' technique than mastering patterns! And, THAT, in my book, is something that really benefits a leader!
doug@swingfusion.com wrote:
Intermediate dancers want to learn tricks and patterns. (This is
only my observation. This is a genaralization. This is not meant to offend
anyone!)
Social Argentine Tango is about connection with partner and music and
the emotion that is aroused in that connection. That is its unique beauty.
However, outside Argentina dancers see tango as steps. Somebody missed the
train.
I am not offended :-). But I did interpret these, and other comments
occasionally seen on the list, as implying that a fair portion of what
happens in the Nuevo dance is a trick or pattern.
I don't see a Volcada, for example as being any more of a step or trick or
pattern than, say, an ocho cortada. Both are led, you can stop either one
at any point and unwind the move, modify what happens next etc. Some leads
and some follows may interpret either as a step or pattern, but that is just
because they are not leading or following.
I, and most that I know who dance Nuevo moves, try to use the "forbidden
list" musically, in concert with partner and music and emotions. I think
that you do us a disservice by claiming that just because the steps are not
danced by the portenos, they are not musical, etc.
I also believe that, for many although perhaps not you, an intellectual
connection to your partner and the music can have all the emotional depth,
or more, of a non-intellectual connection.
D.
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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:56:28 +0100 (CET)
From: Eva Swingo <eva_swingo@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Re: Don't blame your follower ...keys
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Ten years ago - 1997-1998 - definitely not 'golden era' but anyhow,
I went to practicas a lot with a man in his 60s, born in BsAs,
'a real live porteno' ;-)
but at that time residing in Sweden.
He always had his keys hanging from his belt, like Trini describes
it.
Since he loved leading a lot of boleos and ganchos, the keys were
constantly jingling, whether I hit them or not. And therefore part of
the experience dancing with him.
(hitting them was not my objective :D )
The only trouble with this partner - from my point of view was that
he would never take classes. I had to look for other partners when
Argentinian teachers visited Sweden. He would socialize with them at
the milongas. He prefered exchanging dance experiences with friends
while visiting his hometown BsAs once a year, including how to do
boleos and ganchos.
The proudness of a Porteno, perhaps?
Anyhow, tango was his life, and he practiced it 7 days a week.
Clearly 1990s wasn't the golden era, but I would advice against
generalizing who does boleos or not...
Eva
"Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com> wrote:
> This thread reminds me of something I heard a few years
> ago. It used to be that men in BsAs would hang their keys
> from belt or pants. And the women would try to hit the
> keys to get them to jingle during boleos and possibly
> ganchos. Anyone else familiar with that?
>
> Trini de Pittsburgh
>
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