1988  Eight step vs line of dance

Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 17:03:01 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Eight step vs line of dance

Dear friends from Tango List

I cooperate on fridays with my tango teacher, with newly arrived people, to teach basic movements. The problem is that we are almost at the end of the year , and people begun to arrive now , to take tango lessons.... but the rest of the class is already with 8 months of lessons .

So I changed the usual teaching of the 8 steps basic, for a practice of movements in circles, following a line of dance, after some explanation of body posture, movement of weight , pivot and ochos .

Once the couples have walked for while and take a more relaxed posture , and understand this not a tow and push matter, I ask the men to walk backwards , making a rotation , and then onwards, after a stop and a movement in the place , both partners altogether with small steps .

So far, this seems to be working better than the teaching of the 8 step, that was becoming a kind of "assembly line" where all the steps they saw at the class , needed to be inserted .

Later they are left on their own , to boil on their juice for 10 minutes until tender :) , and then to join the rest of the class, and practice some milonga and vals .}

Without knowing , when doing the baldosa , or some other simple movements for milonga , they are doing some of the steps embedded into the 8 step .

We have three levels mixed , to change partners during the lesson and make basics dance with intermediate or advanced.

The final half an hour is reserved for a free dancing , and until know there were no collisions or injured people, so it seems this is having a good effect on newcomers :)

Warm regards
Alberto Gesualdi
Buenos Aires




!Navega y ayuda a los chicos!.
En noviembre, Yahoo! dona un plato de comida por cada nuevo usuario que se conecte a Internet con Yahoo! Conexisn.
Conectate ya aqum.

Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:50:00 -0800
From: Philip Seyer <philipseyer@ILOVEMUSIC.COM>
Subject: Line of Dance

Regarding line of dance, it seems from the posts I've seen that most of you
are sticklers on that subject. However, isn't there room for some
lattitude, here, when the dance hall is not so crowded? It's fine to teach
beginners about the line of dance, but in my opinion, such rules are meant
to be broken, when that can be done safely.

I'm a maverick I know. "Maverick" derives from a guy name Samuel A.
Maverick, an American pioneer who did not brand his calves The word
"maverick" has come to mean: 1) unbranded range animal; especially : a
motherless calf
2 : an independent individual who does not go along with a group or party.
I know what you're thinking, Phil must be an unbranded range animal or
motherless calf. No, please. I'm referring to the second meaning!

In my view, line of dance, refers to the general direction, the general flow
of a dance -- it doesn't mean that some movement against the line of
dance -- for variety -- can't be done when it can be done safely. I realize
I may be in the minority with respect to this.

On a crowded floor, there's no space for dancing against the line of dance.
So that's not really an option. What I'm talking about is when there is
plenty of space, for example when all of the weak Americans, who can't even
stand a little smoke, have gone home for the evening. ;)

Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 01:56:21 -0500
From: tangomaniac@JUNO.COM
Subject: Re: Line of Dance

Phil:
Even when there is plenty of space, for some strange reason, dancers tend
to congregate in one area of the dance floor. So dancing against the line
of dance still isn't a good idea. The leader has to look behind himself
to ensure it's clear to step backwards.

Next, for the comment about smoking. I can't stand a little smoke because
I have asthma. According to your stupid definition, that makes me a weak
American. Sorry, WRONG!! Clearly, you're not aware of the effects of
second hand smoke.

I suggest you keep comments related to tango and stop the gratuitous
insults about those who don't like smoking.

Michael
Washington, DC


On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:50:00 -0800 Philip Seyer
<philipseyer@ILOVEMUSIC.COM> writes:

>
> In my view, line of dance, refers to the general direction, the >

general flow> of a dance -- it doesn't mean that some movement against
the line of> dance -- for variety -- can't be done when it can be done
safely. I > realize

> I may be in the minority with respect to this.
>
> On a crowded floor, there's no space for dancing against the line of >

dance.> So that's not really an option. What I'm talking about is when
there > is> plenty of space, for example when all of the weak Americans,
who

> can't even> stand a little smoke, have gone home for the evening. ;)
>

Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 22:34:11 -0700
From: Phil Seyer <philipseyer@ILOVEMUSIC.COM>
Subject: line of dance

Michael wrote:

"And I don't for a minute believe that Gavito, or Daniel T, or any competent
leader/teacher would recommend or perform this on a social dance floor. 3 or
4 or even 5 back
steps, into the line of dance, on a social dance floor??? GET REAL"

Michael you probably would insist that 3/4 times means 3 beats per measure,
too. And that syncopation means "splitting the beat." ;) But I digress.

I wouldn't lie to you, Michael. Backsteps into the line of dance are great
fun -- one of Gavito's favorites as I mentioned earlier. In his teaching
demonstration, he doesn't explicitly say that he is backing into the line of
dance, but it is clear he's either doing that or he is walking forward three
steps against the line of dance and then suddenly reversing himself for 5
quick rhythmic steps, backing line of dance. Either way he is going against
the line of dance for 3 to 5 steps. Here's how he does it: He does steps 2
and 3 of the 8CB. (He seems to always skips step 1). After step three of the
8CB, he reaches his left leg very high and then quickly puts it down in
front of his right. (The follower kicks backward with her right foot
simltaneously.) Then he does three (or five) double time steps *backwards.*
He says he has a lot of affection for this step because it is so dramatic
and because it easy to do.

Again, before doing this, you may need to wait until all the weak Americans
leave and go home early.

The key thing to remember is that *beginners* need to learn that the general
direction of dance is counter-clockwise. In my opinion, when there is
space, some movement against the line of dance is appropriate for advanced
figures and makes dancing more interesting. In a crowded floor, the exotic
steps mentioned above are out of place, I agree. But when there is space, as
there often is when the weak Americans leave early, you can have fun with
these steps without worrying about rules about not backing against the line
of dance.

You may not agree with my posts, but at least I am provoking some
discussion.You can see what I am saying about Trenner, Pulpo, and Gavito is
true by examining their Argentine tango instructional videos.

Trenner's level II video with shows how backsteps against the line of dance
can be used as a tool to open up space when someone blocking your path on
the dance floor. The Technique of Pulpo shows how step 6 of the basic can
go *backward* if you pivot correctly on your right foot.

Then next time you watch someone teach an advanced step, watch carefully,
you'll probably see that some of these figures involve steps against the
line of dance.

Phil Seyer
https://www.argentine-tango.com


----- Original Message -----

Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 15:48:10 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Line of dance

There are different situations and different circumstances when dancing
tango.

The problem that frequently arises during our discussions of any subject
related to tango, is that we refer to such subject in the frame of different
situations and circumstances.

Gavito4s figure as described in another note, previously sent to the list,
walks against the line of dance. It is usually done forward single stepping
and backwards double-time.

There are hundreds of steps that walk against the line of dance.

* They cannot be used socially on a crowded floor. They are done only when
there is lots of room available or during an exhibition.

Anyone that has danced on a crowded floor knows that the dance is adjusted
to those conditions and circumstances. The steps are shortened, there is
progressive forward movement always that it is possible, there are lots of
moves done in place waiting for the couple in front to move, there are
transient little delays to create extra room in front to give the moves
different dynamics, etc., it would be absurd to dance against the line of
dance on a crowded floor.

Here in Mar del Plata there is a place called "La Rada" a bar where there is
a mixture of young, New Tango and older Salon dancers. It is amazing to see
how all sort of moves and adornments, boleos, amagues (front and back
flicks), heel sacadas, colgadas, volcadas, etc are performed with lots of
energy, following the line of dancing and without inconvenient of any type
even on a floor that it is fairly crowded.

Managing the available space is an art and a skill. Till we are in
possession of such skills it is better to move forward, keeping the moves
compacted and simple to avoid obtructing or colliding.

Sergio, presently in Mar del Plata.

Persistent heartburn? Check out Digestive Health & Wellness for information

Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 20:04:10 EDT
From: LGMoseley@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Line of dance

In a message dated 09/04/2004 16:50:25 GMT Daylight Time,
sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

> ere are different situations and different circumstances when dancing
> tango.
>
> The problem that frequently arises during our discussions of any subject
> related to tango, is that we refer to such subject in the frame of different
> situations and circumstances.
>
> Gavito4s figure as described in another note, previously sent to the list,
> walks against the line of dance. It is usually done forward single stepping
> and backwards double-time.
>
> There are hundreds of steps that walk against the line of dance.
>
> * They cannot be used socially on a crowded floor. They are done only when
> there is lots of room available or during an exhibition.
>
> Anyone that has danced on a crowded floor knows that the dance is adjusted
> to those conditions and circumstances. The steps are shortened, there is
> progressive forward movement always that it is possible, there are lots of
> moves done in place waiting for the couple in front to move, there are
> transient little delays to create extra room in front to give the moves
> different dynamics, etc., it would be absurd to dance against the line of
> dance on a crowded floor.
>
> Here in Mar del Plata there is a place called "La Rada" a bar where there is
> a mixture of young, New Tango and older Salon dancers. It is amazing to see
> how all sort of moves and adornments, boleos, amagues (front and back
> flicks), heel sacadas, colgadas, volcadas, etc are performed with lots of
> energy, following the line of dancing and without inconvenient of any type
> even on a floor that it is fairly crowded.
>
> Managing the available space is an art and a skill. Till we are in
> possession of such skills it is better to move forward, keeping the moves
> compacted and simple to avoid obtructing or colliding.
>
> Sergio, presently in Mar del Plata.

Now, that is a sensible post. Keep it up, Sergio

Laurie

Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 09:01:29 +1000
From: Tango22 <tango22@gmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Line of Dance
To: tango-L@mit.edu

Trini wrote.....
What do traditionalists need to do to let attendees know that at their
milongas, one adheres to a line of dance.....I've never had a problem
like this.

Reminds me of an hilarious experience at a crowded milonga in the
centre of Paris, where one imagines the quality of dance might be
good, sensual; all things French. Perhaps it was called "The Bull
Ring" or something similar - that should have tipped me off. We were
startled by a young couple, clearly demonstrating their exceptional
prowess, dancing directly towards us in the clockwise direction. When
I politely pointed him in the right direction with my left hand,
(perhaps he was directionally impaired) whilst making a smart
avoidance move, he glared at me with the "don't you know who I am?"
look. I swear I heard someone shout Ole!! when I received a smart
gancho in the behind. It did not improve. We left soon after, a
little wiser and sadder; visions of Tango in Paris in tatters.
Keep smiling,
John

Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Amaury de Siqueira <amaurycdsf@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Line of Dance
To: tango-L@mit.edu

We all know that obedience to the line of dance is simply a matter of?training...period.
As I visit different communities and befriend hospitable?instructors I?have found an interesting correlation...?communities?where instructors for financial (or other valid reason) are?pressured?to focus on step-learning rather than fundamentals have a more?difficult?time to maintain a civil and hazard-free line of dance. ?The opposite also seems to hold true....
A few months ago a very well?known?female instructor visited our community in one of her?exercises?she asked dancers to wonder?aimlessly?on the dance floor....
Her jaw drooped when she?noticed?that after a few bars the students naturally?gravitated?to the outside line of the dance floor?maintaining?a fairly even space?distance?among each other. ?The event repeated every time she asked th dancers to break the 'code'.
Its simply a?matter?of training.. so if we are going to blame someone for a chaotic line of dance.. lets not blame the students but the so called 'instructors'.
Amaury
--- On Wed, 10/28/09, Tango22 <tango22@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Tango22 <tango22@gmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Line of Dance
To: tango-L@mit.edu