3652 Enlightened dogmatism
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 15:51:06 -0600
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Enlightened dogmatism
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Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:17:59 -0600
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: more on Enlightened dogmatism
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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 09:15:38 +0100
From: John Ward <johnofbristol@TISCALI.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: more on Enlightened dogmatism
I would agree with Oleh Kovalchuke that best tango is 100 and second-best
80. I would put sex at 70, about the same as ballroom foxtrot.
John Ward
Bristol, UK
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:01:17 -0600
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: more on Enlightened dogmatism
John, you should really give a thought of doing sex in close embrace -
it might improve your numbers.
Cheers, Oleh Kovalchuke
https://TangoSpring.com
On 7/28/05, John Ward <johnofbristol@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> I would agree with Oleh Kovalchuke that best tango is 100 and second-best
> 80. I would put sex at 70, about the same as ballroom foxtrot.
>
> John Ward
> Bristol, UK
>
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 14:06:42 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: more on Enlightened dogmatism - Teaching tango
Oleh explains:
"One of the most common problems with the followers
trained in the
open frame attempting to dance in the close embrace is that their
posture is pulled too far back from solar plex, which cripples
connection, communication with the partner (the grossly exaggerated
form of this posture is done by ballroom dancers). I have experienced
this problem so many times especially with nuevo tango dancers."
and
"Fleeing connection it's like stepping into thin air or chasing a
ghost, very frustrating. Experienced with advanced dancers trained in
open embrace who have no problem doing the footwork however
essentially dance with themselves."
This brings us to the subject of teaching and learning to dance tango
properly.
Salon style has two embraces open and close.
If you are a teacher of Salon style you should teach both embraces from the
very beginning. Teaching of salon close embrace is frequently neglected
by visiting instructors abroad and has been left to the instructors of
Milonguero style which is always close embrace.
This is the origin of the misconception that milonguero and close embrace
are the same thing.
This in great part due to the fact that the visiting instructor of salon is
given instructions by the manager of the event to teach certain moves,
figures or techniques proper of open style.
The visiting instructor assumes that everybody knows how to do social salon
dancing both in open and close embrace, and further more he assumes that
nobody wants to waste time and money inviting a visiting instructor to teach
something (close embrace, socil dancing) that (in Argentina) people learn by
themselves by observation and practicing with their own friends. He is
wrong in this assumption and ends up teaching open embrace tango only.
My suggestion is that:
One may start by teaching to dance in open embrace for a few lessons and
then start introducing exercises to adopt a close embrace. This should be
followed by instruction in both embraces close and open. Eventually the
student should be taught how to change the embrace according to his wishes
as he is dancing. Later on such a student may be introduced to the apilado
form of the close embrace and the milonguero style. All this should be done
in Tango, milonga and vals.
The problem arises when somebody knows only how to dance in one embrace, be
it close or open and is complitly ignorant about the other.
It is natural that such a person due to lack of training will be unable to
dance in the embrace that he was not taught.
Other styles can be learned later on but...
If you only learn to dance in close embrace from the beginning most likely
you will never learn how to dance in open style. If you learn to dance open
style from the beginning and neglected to learn close embrace you may learn
to dance in close embrace later on but this will not be easy either.
This IMO is due to the fact that the frame of the open embrace can more
easily be adjusted to the frame of the close embrace but when you are fixed
in the structure of the close embrace, mostly chest to chest, then it is
very difficult (not impossible) to learn to dance and lead though your arms,
as the chests remain separated. I am aware that other people could have
different ideas with respect to this subject and I accept them as as valid
as mine as they speak according to their own experience.
One naturally should adjust his teaching to the age and skills of the
students.
Older people will have more problem learning but they do not mind repeating
everything again and again even when there is little progress, you should
accept this without becoming frustrated.
Young people on the other hand learn everything rapidly and become bored
unless you give them lots of challenging material, you should be prepared to
do so otherwise they will quit coming.
As to dancing Open embrace in Buenos Aires: Open embrace salon and Nuevo
require some space .
Most milongas are very crowded from midnight to three am. So if you wish to
dance open with people that do the same you have to dance early (11 pm or
late after 3 am.) or else go to some of the neighborhood milongas such as
Villa Urquiza, but even there people will dance close salon if the floor is
crowded.
Summary: The leader should dance the style that the follower knows. You
should dance the style that is prevalent in the club were you go, otherwise
you will sit for the rest of the night (as Oleh says) . You should learn to
dance the form that you like and if you are satisfied stick to it for the
rest of your days. There is no need to be encyclopedic about tango. You
select the form you wish to dance, develop your style and live happily ever
after.
With best regards, Sergio.
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 11:36:40 -0700
From: Iron Logic <railogic@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: more on Enlightened dogmatism
Dear Oleh, then by logical extension .. neuvo, apilado etc == bad sex?
okay ignore this post;))
Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
John, you should really give a thought of doing sex in close embrace -
it might improve your numbers.
Cheers, Oleh Kovalchuke
https://TangoSpring.com
On 7/28/05, John Ward wrote:
> I would agree with Oleh Kovalchuke that best tango is 100 and second-best
> 80. I would put sex at 70, about the same as ballroom foxtrot.
>
> John Ward
> Bristol, UK
>
