5466 European and American pseudo-tango dancers
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 10:37:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
--- Krasimir Stoyanov <krasimir@krasimir.com> wrote:
> He is an awful dancer precisely because he dances
> like tipical european or american pseudo-tango
dancer.
>
This could be an interesting topic. What is a
European or American pseudo-tango dancer?
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:20:03 +0200
From: "Krasimir Stoyanov" <krasimir@krasimir.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
No, I am not going to explain. If it is not obvious to you, all words on
this world will not make you see.
Compare this (tango in its truest form):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?vē-mGU_X8Mc
to anything from Fabian, Gustavo and company - I can't really say they dance
tango.
Same with most people in Europe and US. Sad truth is they have no idea what
tango is.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:37 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
> --- Krasimir Stoyanov <krasimir@krasimir.com> wrote:
>
>> He is an awful dancer precisely because he dances
>> like tipical european or american pseudo-tango
> dancer.
>>
>
> This could be an interesting topic. What is a
> European or American pseudo-tango dancer?
>
>
>
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 21:20:15 +0100
From: Ecsedy ?ron <aron@milonga.hu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
To: Tango-L <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
Dear Krasimir,
They are really nice, but this is simply the question of
style-preference. It is very strange that you picked this recording. It
looks exactly like when a stage dancer tries very hard to dance like a
milonguero proficient in sal?n style (sometimes disregarding the music
altogether, which is not really characteristic for milongueros I
know...). Most "very milonguero" people I saw doesn't have such posture
and fluency of moves (and the slightly cheesy intro) like these stage
professionals, but they give you a little more downtoearth enjoyment of
the music, the partner and what they do.
Nevertheless, nuevo technique is here to stay, even if the actual style
will change considerably towards less movement and less open embrace moves.
Cheers,
Aron
Krasimir Stoyanov ?rta:
> No, I am not going to explain. If it is not obvious to you, all words on
> this world will not make you see.
>
> Compare this (tango in its truest form):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?vē-mGU_X8Mc
>
> to anything from Fabian, Gustavo and company - I can't really say they dance
> tango.
> Same with most people in Europe and US. Sad truth is they have no idea what
> tango is.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tango For Her" <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
> To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:37 PM
> Subject: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
>
>
>
>> --- Krasimir Stoyanov <krasimir@krasimir.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> He is an awful dancer precisely because he dances
>>> like tipical european or american pseudo-tango
>>>
>> dancer.
>>
>> This could be an interesting topic. What is a
>> European or American pseudo-tango dancer?
>>
>>
>>
>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Ecsedy ?ron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 20 66-24-071
https://www.milonga.hu/
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:32:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Clif <clif@clifdavis.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
Krasimir,
Scuse me for saying so but, isn't this "exhibition" tango? How can this be "tango in its truest form?"
You tango gods confuse me with your demagoguery.
Hey, I have an idea, shut up and dance.
Just a thought.
Clif
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:44:08 +0200
From: "Krasimir Stoyanov" <krasimir@krasimir.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
To: "Tango-L" <TANGO-L@mit.edu>
No, nothing to do with the style, it doesn't matter if it is nuevo or
milonguero or classical salon.
There is a feature, that makes it true tango. Again, I am not going to
explain, all you have eyes to see.
Two more examples:
1. Milonguero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvYZTC27S1I
2. Nuevo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhfI-wM8q2Y
Again, nothing to do with style, it is technique, not style. And it's
fundamental for the way dancers feel and move.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
Dear Krasimir,
They are really nice, but this is simply the question of
style-preference. It is very strange that you picked this recording. It
looks exactly like when a stage dancer tries very hard to dance like a
milonguero proficient in sal?n style (sometimes disregarding the music
altogether, which is not really characteristic for milongueros I
know...). Most "very milonguero" people I saw doesn't have such posture
and fluency of moves (and the slightly cheesy intro) like these stage
professionals, but they give you a little more downtoearth enjoyment of
the music, the partner and what they do.
Nevertheless, nuevo technique is here to stay, even if the actual style
will change considerably towards less movement and less open embrace moves.
Cheers,
Aron
Krasimir Stoyanov ?rta:
> No, I am not going to explain. If it is not obvious to you, all words on
> this world will not make you see.
>
> Compare this (tango in its truest form):
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?vē-mGU_X8Mc
>
> to anything from Fabian, Gustavo and company - I can't really say they
> dance
> tango.
> Same with most people in Europe and US. Sad truth is they have no idea
> what
> tango is.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tango For Her" <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
> To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:37 PM
> Subject: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
>
>
>
>> --- Krasimir Stoyanov <krasimir@krasimir.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> He is an awful dancer precisely because he dances
>>> like tipical european or american pseudo-tango
>>>
>> dancer.
>>
>> This could be an interesting topic. What is a
>> European or American pseudo-tango dancer?
>>
>>
>>
>> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Ecsedy ?ron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 20 66-24-071
https://www.milonga.hu/
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:51:40 -0800
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
Clif,
Hey, what was so "exhibition"-istic about that tango?
They did not do anything which ordinary people are not able to do.
..If they want.
Igor Polk
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:45:02 -0800
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers, and
Argentine truest tangos
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Very very nice example of a slow salon tango
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?vē-mGU_X8Mc),
Thank you Krasimir !
But what about this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmPzXwjN8Ac
( dance starts at about 2:40 )
Isn't it a truest form of tango too? ;)
Igor Polk,
PS Watch my video collection:
https://www.virtuar.com/tango/linkblog.htm
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 12:59:18 -0800
From: meaning of life <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
it was beautiful.
they had great connection.
they were having fun.
they were having a conversation in dance.
they were on balance.
they had a nice frame.
he was leading, she was following.
they were responding to each others moves.
their moves related nicely to the music.
looked like tango to me.
lets see, "looked like a duck, quacked like a duck"
but it was not a duck????????
hellooooooooooooooooooo
The Tangonista
Sponsered by P.E.T.A. (People Expressing Tango Attitude)
NOTICE - no cats were injured in the making of our music
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:06:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Clif <clif@clifdavis.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
Igor,
Thanks for the reply...
According to the preponderance of information given here, if one is doing exhibition, then it can't possibly be "real".
In this dance shown... A true dancer of tango would never step forward on the first step. Would never reverse back down line of dance. Would ever do such deep boleos and block traffic on the floor.
I mean, how can this be the "truest form of tango" with these glaring issues of floor mastery.
Clif, (with tongue firmly planted in cheek.)
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:09:57 +0200
From: "Krasimir Stoyanov" <krasimir@krasimir.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers, and
Argentine truest tangos
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
----- Original Message -----
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:13:58 -0500
From: Ilene Marder <imhmedia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
To: Krasimir Stoyanov <krasimir@krasimir.com>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
the "milonguero" video is beautiful dancing but I sure wouldn't want to
be dancing next to them at a real milonga...
I'd either get kicked in the teeth or tripped by her extended legwork!!
I.
Krasimir Stoyanov wrote:
No, nothing to do with the style, it doesn't matter if it is nuevo or
milonguero or classical salon.
There is a feature, that makes it true tango. Again, I am not going to
explain, all you have eyes to see.
Two more examples:
1. Milonguero
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvYZTC27S1I
>
>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:27:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
O.K. here's my vote for the real McCoy Argentine Tango...a lay-up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdbpjesqFpI&feature=related
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:53:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
wow..thanks for the Ney Melo and Jennifer Bratt! right on target.
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:59:51 -0500
From: Ilene Marder <imhmedia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
To: helene eckert <helene.eckert@hotmail.com>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
my nomination for "real" milonguero, exhibition...with no need to change
their style for the milonga floor!
Pocho y Nellie...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ak2y84C-9Y&feature=related
helene eckert wrote:
> but they would NEVER dance like that in a milonga !!! they are very
> respectful and well educated... in a milonga, they will of course
> adapt their dance to the crowd !!!
> H?l?ne (Geenva, Switzerland)
>
>
>
> > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:13:58 -0500
> > From: imhmedia@yahoo.com
> > To: krasimir@krasimir.com
> > CC: tango-l@mit.edu
> > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
> >
> >
> > the "milonguero" video is beautiful dancing but I sure wouldn't want to
> > be dancing next to them at a real milonga...
> > I'd either get kicked in the teeth or tripped by her extended legwork!!
> > I.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Krasimir Stoyanov wrote:
> >
> > No, nothing to do with the style, it doesn't matter if it is nuevo or
> > milonguero or classical salon.
> >
> > There is a feature, that makes it true tango. Again, I am not going to
> > explain, all you have eyes to see.
> >
> > Two more examples:
> > 1. Milonguero
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvYZTC27S1I
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
>
> <https://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:04:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Mario <sopelote@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Two Europeans..Melina + Detlef who dance the true Argentine Tango
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MxNgrqr184
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 23:23:26 -0500
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
Wow, for once I'm actually agreeing with Igor. People like Clif just think that if
dancing is really, really good - it must be a show or an exhibition. Clif, I think
you're setting your sights too low. Of course, we can never be as good as the
professionals but at least we should aspire to be as good as we can possibly be.
Keith, HK
On Sat Jan 19 4:51 , "Igor Polk" sent:
>Clif,
>
>Hey, what was so "exhibition"-istic about that tango?
>They did not do anything which ordinary people are not able to do.
>
>..If they want.
>
>Igor Polk
>
>
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:38:04 +1100
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] European and American pseudo-tango dancers
To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu>
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA025664FF80@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
I don't require my tango teachers to be charming dinner companions any more than I require this of my doctor. But I do expect them to have good technique. Just have a look at the first two dances on the CITA 2007 video. First you have Javier with impeccable technique. Then you get Fabian who is clearly not concentrating with bad posture looking at his feet most of the time. Fabin can dance beautifully as you can see if you search under his name on youtube and particularly where he is dancing with Cecilia Gonzales. However it seems that for whatever reason he just doesnt bother to any more, at least that is what an objective viewing of the last couple of years of CITA videos reveals. I dont think his status as a great dancer (and yes he can dance better than anyone on this list almost certainly) should stop people pointing this out. Anyone can see his posture is bad and if it is not highlighted then people might think it is ok to dance that way.
Victor Bennetts
>First, as a person, Fabian is absolutely top-notch.
>Second, when he is in town, I pay very close
>attention, because I learn a lot from his technique.
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