4542 Everyone's "one of the most respected and
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 11:19:09 -0400
From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in Buenos Aires"
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I've been doing a lot of browsing on the internet, of various tango schools
and teachers, in North America, and of course Argentina. Is it just me or is
every single teacher "one of the most respected and well-known tango dancers
in Buenos Aires"?
Says who? It's not possible for every single one of them to be "one of the
best" or there wouldn't any "best" at all. I would like to know who sets the
standards and who exactly is considering those teachers to be "one of the
best" or is there alot of self-proclamation going on?
I see it here too, braggadacio. I was at a Milonga hosted by my tango school
where I was approached by an older man who tried to persuade me to stop
taking lessons at that school and instead learn with him because he is one
of the "best" and had been travelling to Buenos Aires every year for the
last 20 years. Well, so did my tango teachers. I find that to be very bad
manners, to be approached by someone who is trying to convince others not to
take lessons from the teachers hosting the milonga. Competiton can sometimes
be a little too backstabbing for my liking.
So, I am thinking, how does making annual pilgrimages to Argentina
automatically make you the best?
What makes me laugh is when I come across a website that features just one
teacher and they write about themselves in the third person, with all those
effusive reviews of how they are one of the "best in Buenos Aires".
One thing I can say for sure is that generally speaking, most tango teachers
have no lack of self-confidence.
Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes.
https://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:47:47 +0000 (GMT)
From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in Buenos Aires"
To: Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>, tango-l@mit.edu
Tango is foremost about attitude. If you don't think you are the best on the floor, you are not dancing true Tango, never mind how bad you are.
Lucia ;->
Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> escribi?: I've been doing a lot of browsing on the internet, of various tango schools
and teachers, in North America, and of course Argentina. Is it just me or is
every single teacher "one of the most respected and well-known tango dancers
in Buenos Aires"?
Says who? It's not possible for every single one of them to be "one of the
best" or there wouldn't any "best" at all. I would like to know who sets the
standards and who exactly is considering those teachers to be "one of the
best" or is there alot of self-proclamation going on?
I see it here too, braggadacio. I was at a Milonga hosted by my tango school
where I was approached by an older man who tried to persuade me to stop
taking lessons at that school and instead learn with him because he is one
of the "best" and had been travelling to Buenos Aires every year for the
last 20 years. Well, so did my tango teachers. I find that to be very bad
manners, to be approached by someone who is trying to convince others not to
take lessons from the teachers hosting the milonga. Competiton can sometimes
be a little too backstabbing for my liking.
So, I am thinking, how does making annual pilgrimages to Argentina
automatically make you the best?
What makes me laugh is when I come across a website that features just one
teacher and they write about themselves in the third person, with all those
effusive reviews of how they are one of the "best in Buenos Aires".
One thing I can say for sure is that generally speaking, most tango teachers
have no lack of self-confidence.
Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes.
https://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
Pregunt?. Respond?. Descubr?.
Todo lo que quer?as saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est? en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
Probalo ya!
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 12:38:15 -0400
From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in BA
To: curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar, tango-l@mit.edu
I don't know if I agree with that line of thinking - if someone has to
actually say they are the best instead of letting their dancing establish
their reputation, it turns me off. I like confidence but not THAT much.
----Original Message Follows----
From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
To: Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>, tango-l@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and well-known
dancers in Buenos Aires"
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 12:47:23 -0400
From: mallpasso@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in BA
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Talk is cheap. Watch them dance then dance with them for your own evaluation.
El Bandido de Tango
-----Original Message-----
From: runcarolinerun@hotmail.com
To: curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar; tango-l@mit.edu
Sent: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and well-known dancers in BA
I don't know if I agree with that line of thinking - if someone has to actually say they are the best instead of letting their dancing establish their reputation, it turns me off. I like confidence but not THAT much.
----Original Message Follows----
From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
To: Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>, tango-l@mit.edu
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and well-known dancers in Buenos Aires"
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:47:47 +0000 (GMT)
Tango is foremost about attitude. If you don't think you are the best on the floor, you are not dancing true Tango, never mind how bad you are.
Lucia ;->
Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> escribi?: I've been doing a lot of browsing on the internet, of various tango schools
and teachers, in North America, and of course Argentina. Is it just me or is
every single teacher "one of the most respected and well-known tango dancers
in Buenos Aires"?
Says who? It's not possible for every single one of them to be "one of the
best" or there wouldn't any "best" at all. I would like to know who sets the
standards and who exactly is considering those teachers to be "one of the
best" or is there alot of self-proclamation going on?
I see it here too, braggadacio. I was at a Milonga hosted by my tango school
where I was approached by an older man who tried to persuade me to stop
taking lessons at that school and instead learn with him because he is one
of the "best" and had been travelling to Buenos Aires every year for the
last 20 years. Well, so did my tango teachers. I find that to be very bad
manners, to be approached by someone who is trying to convince others not to
take lessons from the teachers hosting the milonga. Competiton can sometimes
be a little too backstabbing for my liking.
So, I am thinking, how does making annual pilgrimages to Argentina
automatically make you the best?
What makes me laugh is when I come across a website that features just one
teacher and they write about themselves in the third person, with all those
effusive reviews of how they are one of the "best in Buenos Aires".
One thing I can say for sure is that generally speaking, most tango teachers
have no lack of self-confidence.
Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes.
https://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
Pregunt?. Respond?. Descubr?.
Todo lo que quer?as saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
est? en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
Probalo ya!
Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes. https://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 11:05:08 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in BA
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Obviously, a promoter needs to get students to expensive workshops,
so there is an escalation of hype.
For myself, I find I can't base my opinion on a teacher from the
advertising.
Quality, Quantity and Community Building.
Evidence of good teaching:
- How do their students dance?
- What is the teachers retention ability (short & long-term)?
- Do they graduate their students to the wider community?
A lot of traveling teachers blow through town without having much of
an impact on the local community. Some of them come repeatedly like
gentle Summer breezes.
On Aug 3, 2006, at 10:47 AM, mallpasso@aol.com wrote:
>
> Talk is cheap. Watch them dance then dance with them for your own
> evaluation.
>
> El Bandido de Tango
>
> ...
> Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> escribi?: I've been
> doing a lot of browsing on the internet, of various tango schools
> and teachers, in North America, and of course Argentina. Is it
> just me or is
> every single teacher "one of the most respected and well-known
> tango dancers
> in Buenos Aires"?
>
> Says who? It's not possible for every single one of them to be
> "one of the
> best" or there wouldn't any "best" at all. I would like to know
> who sets the
> standards and who exactly is considering those teachers to be "one
> of the
> best" or is there alot of self-proclamation going on?
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 13:13:09 -0400
From: "TangoDC.com" <spatz@tangoDC.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in BA
To: tango-L@mit.edu
Hi Caroline,
I think you should drop all these teachers, and come study with me. I'm
plain atrocious.
Jake
DC
Caroline Polack wrote:
> I don't know if I agree with that line of thinking - if someone has to
> actually say they are the best instead of letting their dancing
> establish their reputation, it turns me off. I like confidence but not
> THAT much.
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
> To: Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>, tango-l@mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
> well-known dancers in Buenos Aires"
> Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:47:47 +0000 (GMT)
>
> Tango is foremost about attitude. If you don't think you are the best
> on the floor, you are not dancing true Tango, never mind how bad you
> are.
>
> Lucia ;->
>
>
>
> Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> escribi?: I've been
> doing a lot of browsing on the internet, of various tango schools
> and teachers, in North America, and of course Argentina. Is it just me
> or is
> every single teacher "one of the most respected and well-known tango
> dancers
> in Buenos Aires"?
>
> Says who? It's not possible for every single one of them to be "one
> of the
> best" or there wouldn't any "best" at all. I would like to know who
> sets the
> standards and who exactly is considering those teachers to be "one of the
> best" or is there alot of self-proclamation going on?
>
> I see it here too, braggadacio. I was at a Milonga hosted by my tango
> school
> where I was approached by an older man who tried to persuade me to stop
> taking lessons at that school and instead learn with him because he is
> one
> of the "best" and had been travelling to Buenos Aires every year for the
> last 20 years. Well, so did my tango teachers. I find that to be very bad
> manners, to be approached by someone who is trying to convince others
> not to
> take lessons from the teachers hosting the milonga. Competiton can
> sometimes
> be a little too backstabbing for my liking.
>
> So, I am thinking, how does making annual pilgrimages to Argentina
> automatically make you the best?
>
> What makes me laugh is when I come across a website that features just
> one
> teacher and they write about themselves in the third person, with all
> those
> effusive reviews of how they are one of the "best in Buenos Aires".
>
> One thing I can say for sure is that generally speaking, most tango
> teachers
> have no lack of self-confidence.
>
> Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes.
> https://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
>
>
>
>
>
> Pregunt?. Respond?. Descubr?.
> Todo lo que quer?as saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> est? en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
> Probalo ya!
>
> Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes.
> https://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 10:45:35 -0700
From: "Ed Doyle" <doyleed@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in BA
To: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Cc: curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar, tango-l@mit.edu
<183484970608031045j4be8e629t38b504cf0b12829d@mail.gmail.com>
I agree with you Caroline.
Ed
On 8/3/06, Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't know if I agree with that line of thinking - if someone has to
> actually say they are the best instead of letting their dancing establish
> their reputation, it turns me off. I like confidence but not THAT much.
>
>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 13:15:28 -0500
From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-knowndancers in Buenos Aires"
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
As one of my favorite politicians once said "If you can't vote for
yourself, why would anyone else vote for you?"
This is a tough line to walk. People often ask me who the best teachers
in town are. It is important to me that students take from good
teachers. When I get a student who has been taking from a marginal
teacher for awhile, he or she will arrive with such bad habits it is
almost impossible to fix their dance. Then they get frustrated and leave
the community, or continue to dance badly making others want to leave
the community. So even though I may want to say "Just come to me", I
repeat the things I believe. Look at how their students dance (not how
they dance). Are they supporting the community and can they dance
successfully in Buenos Aires.
Why do I tell them to pick a teacher who goes to BsAs? If you can dance
in BsAs, you are dancing true tango. It isn't a requirement, but it
weeds out the pretenders. My boyfriend was in New Jersey recently and
went to a local studio because he saw that they taught Argentine tango.
He went see the teacher who was teaching the "masters class", but found
that she had such terrible technique he could barely dance with her.
(She was an "ocho machine" among other sins). I looked her up on the
internet, and found a quote from her - she likes to teach her students
ballroom tango first because it is a great foundation for Argentine
tango. This is an example of a person I would like to see have limited
students.
Lois Donnay
Minneapolis, MN
-----Original Message-----
From: Caroline Polack [mailto:runcarolinerun@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 10:19 AM
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Subject: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-knowndancers in Buenos Aires"
I've been doing a lot of browsing on the internet, of various tango
schools
and teachers, in North America, and of course Argentina. Is it just me
or is
every single teacher "one of the most respected and well-known tango
dancers
in Buenos Aires"?
Says who? It's not possible for every single one of them to be "one of
the
best" or there wouldn't any "best" at all. I would like to know who sets
the
standards and who exactly is considering those teachers to be "one of
the
best" or is there alot of self-proclamation going on?
I see it here too, braggadacio. I was at a Milonga hosted by my tango
school
where I was approached by an older man who tried to persuade me to stop
taking lessons at that school and instead learn with him because he is
one
of the "best" and had been travelling to Buenos Aires every year for the
last 20 years. Well, so did my tango teachers. I find that to be very
bad
manners, to be approached by someone who is trying to convince others
not to
take lessons from the teachers hosting the milonga. Competiton can
sometimes
be a little too backstabbing for my liking.
So, I am thinking, how does making annual pilgrimages to Argentina
automatically make you the best?
What makes me laugh is when I come across a website that features just
one
teacher and they write about themselves in the third person, with all
those
effusive reviews of how they are one of the "best in Buenos Aires".
One thing I can say for sure is that generally speaking, most tango
teachers
have no lack of self-confidence.
Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes.
https://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 14:29:10 -0400
From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in BA
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Cc: donnay@donnay.net
"If you can dance in BsAs, you are dancing true tango. "
---Lois Donnay
Minneapolis, MN
I think that is a common misperception - I've read numerous accounts of how
some dancers in BsAs are really terrible or maybe they are okay but not
great, irregardless of they were a local or a foreigner, whether they are a
teacher or just a milonguero//a. Just because they dance in BsAs doesn't
mean they are good.
I've even heard some Argentinian tango teachers admit (when they went on
teaching tours in North America or Europe) that some of the foreigners
actually dance better than some of the locals and they had never been to
Buenos Aires.
What do you mean by "dance successfully in Buenos Aires" ? What is your
definition of success?
Caroline
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 14:35:49 -0400
From: "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-knowndancers in Bue
To: runcarolinerun@hotmail.com, tango-l@mit.edu
Caroline,
Your question is quite good, and very difficult to answer. You've touched on
a pretty good subject here. What I've found out is that some people have
idolized certain teachers (who are extremely good at self promotion and know
how to manipulate peoples weaknesses). These people will always promote
their idol as "the best", "the real thing", etc. Other people have limited
knowledge of the tango itself and merely parrot (or outright copy) the
promotional material given to them by their "maestro/a" du jour. Obviously,
the aforementioned bona fides are not necessarily true or accurate.
There are other people who take time to travel and take lessons with many
teachers and observe their methods, the material they teach, their skill on
the dance floor, etc. It takes a pretty long time to learn who's truly the
best or among the best. First, the judge himself or herself must have a
pretty good command of the subject and they must be fairly immune to
insincere flattery or emotional manipulation. Some traveling teachers are
quite charismatic and will seduce you to their particular brand of snake oil
very easily. Particularly if you are susceptible to the "shine" of stars.
The tango business is very much a cutthroat business, it's very difficult to
get the "most respected" and "the best" of Buenos Aires to bestow the crown
upon one of them. They have very strong likes and dislikes and almost all of
them thinks that they are the best and the rest are nothing. There is no
accrediting body to certify who's among the best. In this atmosphere, hype
becomes the best selling tool (next to mudslinging the other teacher's
style).
Personally, I think that traveling to Buenos Aires is a good thing for tango
students and teachers. However, frequent trips to BAires do not necessarily
translate into any sort of tango teaching credentials. I've seen many people
who have gone to BAires and returned without apparently learning anything
about the tango music, the dance or the culture of the Argentineans. As far
as I could tell, they might just as well spent a week in Disneyland...
I'm afraid that there is no way to separate the wheat from the chaff, unless
one can trust the organizer or one knows first hand the teacher(s) involved.
Bottom line is: Caveat Emptor....
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
>From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
>To: tango-l@mit.edu
>Subject: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
>well-knowndancers in Buenos Aires"
>Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 11:19:09 -0400
>
>I've been doing a lot of browsing on the internet, of various tango schools
>and teachers, in North America, and of course Argentina. Is it just me or
>is
>every single teacher "one of the most respected and well-known tango
>dancers
>in Buenos Aires"?
>
>Says who? It's not possible for every single one of them to be "one of the
>best" or there wouldn't any "best" at all. I would like to know who sets
>the
>standards and who exactly is considering those teachers to be "one of the
>best" or is there alot of self-proclamation going on?
>
>I see it here too, braggadacio. I was at a Milonga hosted by my tango
>school
>where I was approached by an older man who tried to persuade me to stop
>taking lessons at that school and instead learn with him because he is one
>of the "best" and had been traveling to Buenos Aires every year for the
>last 20 years. Well, so did my tango teachers. I find that to be very bad
>manners, to be approached by someone who is trying to convince others not
>to
>take lessons from the teachers hosting the milonga. Competiton can
>sometimes
>be a little too backstabbing for my liking.
>
>So, I am thinking, how does making annual pilgrimages to Argentina
>automatically make you the best?
>
>What makes me laugh is when I come across a website that features just one
>teacher and they write about themselves in the third person, with all those
>effusive reviews of how they are one of the "best in Buenos Aires".
>
>One thing I can say for sure is that generally speaking, most tango
>teachers
>have no lack of self-confidence.
>
>Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes.
>https://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
>
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:00:32 -0400
From: euroking@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in Buenos Aires"
To: runcarolinerun@hotmail.com, tango-l@mit.edu
Caroline,,
I like you train of thought. Some one that tells me that they are the best at what they do really turns inside out, because it is most likely bull. However, with that said, internal confidence or belief in what you are doing is essential to get better. It is the broadcast factor that has the fine line. The fighter pilot who does not believe and act as though they are better than everyone else, are likely to do die in combat by those who actually believe they are the best. Doubt creates hesitation, hesitation creates error, and error reduces confidence.
Saying you are the best certainly doesn't make you the best, quietly believing you are doing your best, will move you forward, with doing being the operative term.
As for truth in advertising, I would expect every teacher to advertise, if they trying to enter a particular market, to puff themselves up and exploit myths. BsAs may be the home of the Tango, but it would be highly unreasonable to assume that every Argentine dances Tango at a high degree of perfection. Like it would be unreasonable to believe everyone in the uS is a plays baseball like a pro.
The written word has to be backed by the walk. A package can get my attention but can the contents keep it. I find that reading items on this list range from the absurd logic to the enlightened. Self proclaimed pundits add value to the conversation as well as the true reporters of fact. I found Debi's comments englightning and informative. I found Burleigh's comments to be a bit of a bore in his response, but he still added a perspective.
The key I think, and I apologize if I am getting verbose, but is observing, listening and comparing what is being said instead of judging (You nor Debi are judging, but merely staing your opinion on the subject). I think that too many or those who are the most vocal tend to judge or react and defend a particualr point of view. Makes for good reading sometime but does not particularly resolve anything.
I am going to make my first trip to BsAs and my primary objective is to observe and absorb. We would like to dance, but reading much on this list there is an element of intrepidation on trying to. I will come back better for it. Life is good,
Just some thoughts.
Bill in Seattle
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 8:19 AM
Subject: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and well-known dancers in Buenos Aires"
I've been doing a lot of browsing on the internet, of various tango schools
and teachers, in North America, and of course Argentina. Is it just me or is
every single teacher "one of the most respected and well-known tango dancers
in Buenos Aires"?
Says who? It's not possible for every single one of them to be "one of the
best" or there wouldn't any "best" at all. I would like to know who sets the
standards and who exactly is considering those teachers to be "one of the
best" or is there alot of self-proclamation going on?
I see it here too, braggadacio. I was at a Milonga hosted by my tango school
where I was approached by an older man who tried to persuade me to stop
taking lessons at that school and instead learn with him because he is one
of the "best" and had been travelling to Buenos Aires every year for the
last 20 years. Well, so did my tango teachers. I find that to be very bad
manners, to be approached by someone who is trying to convince others not to
take lessons from the teachers hosting the milonga. Competiton can sometimes
be a little too backstabbing for my liking.
So, I am thinking, how does making annual pilgrimages to Argentina
automatically make you the best?
What makes me laugh is when I come across a website that features just one
teacher and they write about themselves in the third person, with all those
effusive reviews of how they are one of the "best in Buenos Aires".
One thing I can say for sure is that generally speaking, most tango teachers
have no lack of self-confidence.
Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes.
https://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 14:01:15 -0500
From: "Ron Weigel" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in BA
To: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Cc: donnay@donnay.net, tango-l@mit.edu
<cff24c340608031201u4b6261aej83a9a7447f2399ac@mail.gmail.com>
Maybe it would be more accurate to say:
"If you CAN'T dance in BsAs, you are NOT dancing true tango."
Regardless of how they may dance in BsAs milongas (assuming they
attend), most intructors from BsAs do not teach a style of tango that
CAN be danced in BsAs.
Learning fantasia, nuevo, even "salon style, open embrace" won't help
you dance at the BsAs milongas.
Ron
On 8/3/06, Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "If you can dance in BsAs, you are dancing true tango. "
>
> ---Lois Donnay
> Minneapolis, MN
>
> I think that is a common misperception - I've read numerous accounts of how
> some dancers in BsAs are really terrible or maybe they are okay but not
> great, irregardless of they were a local or a foreigner, whether they are a
> teacher or just a milonguero//a. Just because they dance in BsAs doesn't
> mean they are good.
>
> I've even heard some Argentinian tango teachers admit (when they went on
> teaching tours in North America or Europe) that some of the foreigners
> actually dance better than some of the locals and they had never been to
> Buenos Aires.
>
> What do you mean by "dance successfully in Buenos Aires" ? What is your
> definition of success?
>
> Caroline
>
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 12:29:19 -0700
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in BA
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
There is only two ways to find who is the best teacher for you.
1. Take lessons from ALL of them ! Considering that one has to take at least
100 group lessons to start dancing it is not much. ( you are not taking a
private class if you do not know him, are you? ). Besides there is no the
BEST teacher and there are very few really BAD teachers. Every teacher is
good in something. It all depends on you, him, the group of students, and
the day of the year.
2. Buy ALL tapes you can find. Here you will find who is the best teacher
( videotaped ) for you in a much cheaper way. And besides, the record stays
with you for future reference. Say, 20% of useful tapes per 80% of not so
useful tapes is an excellent ratio which completely pays off. With time your
priorities will change. That is the way it is. And you already have tapes!
Still,
- a good teacher dances. And he dances well with beginners too. If he does
not dance - he is not good. Yes, not all good dancers can be good teachers.
But a good teacher must be a good dancer.
That is about it.. Recommendations? I do not believe them.
Igor Polk.
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 12:34:12 -0700 (MST)
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@eninet.eas.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in BA"
To: tango-l@Mit.edu
Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> writes
to Lois Donnay:
> What do you mean by "dance successfully in Buenos Aires"?
> What is your definition of success?
Well I'm not Lois, but I define it rather simply:
To be able to go to milongas and have portenas return
my steady gaze and meet me on the dance floor instead
of turning their heads away.
Is this a trick question? :)
When non-dancers here in the US ask me about AT,
they often say, "Oh, I've seen ballroom dancing on
TV, do you compete?" I explain the above, and tell
them that other than that, we don't need no stinkin'
prizes.
Huck
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 17:32:32 EDT
From: Mallpasso@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in...
To: spatz@tangoDC.com, tango-L@mit.edu
Wow, I don't believe this... Jake can actually be pithy rather than
verbose... ;-)
El Bandido de Tango
In a message dated 8/3/2006 10:14:40 Pacific Daylight Time, spatz@tangoDC.com
writes:
Hi Caroline,
I think you should drop all these teachers, and come study with me. I'm
plain atrocious.
Jake
DC
Caroline Polack wrote:
> I don't know if I agree with that line of thinking - if someone has to
> actually say they are the best instead of letting their dancing
> establish their reputation, it turns me off. I like confidence but not
> THAT much.
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
> To: Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>, tango-l@mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
> well-known dancers in Buenos Aires"
> Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:47:47 +0000 (GMT)
>
> Tango is foremost about attitude. If you don't think you are the best
> on the floor, you are not dancing true Tango, never mind how bad you
> are.
>
> Lucia ;->
>
>
>
> Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> escribi?: I've been
> doing a lot of browsing on the internet, of various tango schools
> and teachers, in North America, and of course Argentina. Is it just me
> or is
> every single teacher "one of the most respected and well-known tango
> dancers
> in Buenos Aires"?
>
> Says who? It's not possible for every single one of them to be "one
> of the
> best" or there wouldn't any "best" at all. I would like to know who
> sets the
> standards and who exactly is considering those teachers to be "one of the
> best" or is there alot of self-proclamation going on?
>
> I see it here too, braggadacio. I was at a Milonga hosted by my tango
> school
> where I was approached by an older man who tried to persuade me to stop
> taking lessons at that school and instead learn with him because he is
> one
> of the "best" and had been travelling to Buenos Aires every year for the
> last 20 years. Well, so did my tango teachers. I find that to be very bad
> manners, to be approached by someone who is trying to convince others
> not to
> take lessons from the teachers hosting the milonga. Competiton can
> sometimes
> be a little too backstabbing for my liking.
>
> So, I am thinking, how does making annual pilgrimages to Argentina
> automatically make you the best?
>
> What makes me laugh is when I come across a website that features just
> one
> teacher and they write about themselves in the third person, with all
> those
> effusive reviews of how they are one of the "best in Buenos Aires".
>
> One thing I can say for sure is that generally speaking, most tango
> teachers
> have no lack of self-confidence.
>
> Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes.
> https://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
>
>
>
>
>
> Pregunt?. Respond?. Descubr?.
> Todo lo que quer?as saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> est? en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
> Probalo ya!
>
> Play Q6 for your chance to WIN great prizes.
> https://q6trivia.imagine-live.com/enca/landing
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 15:47:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in Buenos Aires"
The question to ask is ... "best" at what?
musicality?
playfulness?
connection?
creativity?
energy?
etc...?
teaching musicality?
teaching playfulness?
teaching connection?
teaching creativity?
teaching energy?
teaching etc...?
Being able to differentiate details between different
dancers or teachers is an important skill if one wants to
really improve. Read the details, find their marketing
niche. Good teachers develop particular strengths and
styles. So a community could have many "best" dancers, but
they are the "best" for different things.
I only use personal references from dancers I respect whose
tastes are similar to mine, since I don't have Igor's
unlimited income for buying video tapes and classes.
:)
I have figured out that one doesn't necessarily need to
study from "the best", only from someone who is better at
something than you are.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've been doing a lot of browsing on the internet, of
> various tango schools
> and teachers, in North America, and of course Argentina.
> Is it just me or is
> every single teacher "one of the most respected and
> well-known tango dancers
> in Buenos Aires"?
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 17:52:47 -0700
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-known dancers in Buenos Aires"
Well,
The best thing a teacher can do: he MAKEs you work ! The rest is up to you.
When one does not know how to dance, how can he judge about all these
"musicality?playfulness?connection?creativity?energy?" ?
Right Trini?
It is a matter of personal likeness ultimately.
Even more than that. So when one is not able to make a decision yet, he
chooses pretty randomly. And it is usually a teacher which smiles wider.
Then, when he learns a little, he is able to recognize the things better,
and he should check everything again. And so on. Hmm.... judging this way
the best teacher is the one who teaches the best dancers. But again, one can
recognize it only when he knows the dance.
About money. As you can see, knowing all the teachers means saving money,
not wasting them. My income is limited ( that is what you guessed, Trini )
and that is exactly why I did it: I wanted to learn as fast as I can with as
less expense as I can.
Igor.
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 09:41:41 +0900
From: "astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected and
well-knowndancers in BA
To: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>,
<curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>, <tango-l@mit.edu>
Caroline:
> I don't know if I agree with that line of thinking - if someone has to
> actually say they are the best instead of letting their dancing establish
> their reputation, it turns me off. I like confidence but not THAT much.
Saying that he is the best speaks for the teacher the way like talking ("I
want you to move over there") speaks for the leader.
; )
Astrid
>
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 10:01:11 +0900
From: "astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected
andwell-known dancers in BA
To: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>, <tango-l@mit.edu>
Cc: donnay@donnay.net
> I've even heard some Argentinian tango teachers admit (when they went on
> teaching tours in North America or Europe) that some of the foreigners
> actually dance better than some of the locals and they had never been to
> Buenos Aires.
>
Now that Argentine would have an outstanding amount of nerve, honesty and
self confidence (compared to the rest). I would like to meet him. The usual
policy is: if you are Argentine, you can dance after two lessons, you are a
worthy partner of all the visiting teachers, and you get to translate in
classes, even if you don't know what you are talking about.
If you are not Argentine, you have to either be very pretty and half nude,
or you have to have danced for at least 7 years before they are ready to
acknowledge you to be anywhere near their prowess.
I have only heard someone as dignified and as experienced at tango as Nito
Garcia say:"I learn from my students."
Astrid
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2006 23:16:49 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most respected
andwell-known dancers in BA
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
If you are from Colorado, you must be an excellent teacher of skiing.
We all grew up skiing.... learned from our grandfathers.
Or, maybe wedeln with Willy Scheffler.
On Aug 3, 2006, at 7:01 PM, astrid wrote:
>> I've even heard some Argentinian tango teachers admit (when they
>> went on
>> teaching tours in North America or Europe) that some of the
>> foreigners
>> actually dance better than some of the locals and they had never
>> been to
>> Buenos Aires.
>>
> Now that Argentine would have an outstanding amount of nerve,
> honesty and
> self confidence (compared to the rest). I would like to meet him.
> The usual
> policy is: if you are Argentine, you can dance after two lessons,
> you are a
> worthy partner of all the visiting teachers, and you get to
> translate in
> classes, even if you don't know what you are talking about.
> If you are not Argentine, you have to either be very pretty and
> half nude,
> or you have to have danced for at least 7 years before they are
> ready to
> acknowledge you to be anywhere near their prowess.
> I have only heard someone as dignified and as experienced at tango
> as Nito
> Garcia say:"I learn from my students."
>
> Astrid
Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 15:49:33 +0900
From: "astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Everyone's "one of the most
respectedandwell-known dancers in BA
To: "Tom Stermitz" <stermitz@tango.org>, "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
Tom wrote:
> If you are from Colorado, you must be an excellent teacher of skiing.
>
> We all grew up skiing.... learned from our grandfathers.
>
> Or, maybe wedeln with Willy Scheffler.
It is Willy Schaeffler, actually. All the other Willy Schefflers are German,
first of all Siegfried Willy Schaeffler, SPD....
Greetings
Astrid
>
>
> On Aug 3, 2006, at 7:01 PM, astrid wrote:
>
> >> I've even heard some Argentinian tango teachers admit (when they
> >> went on
> >> teaching tours in North America or Europe) that some of the
> >> foreigners
> >> actually dance better than some of the locals and they had never
> >> been to
> >> Buenos Aires.
> >>
> > Now that Argentine would have an outstanding amount of nerve,
> > honesty and
> > self confidence (compared to the rest). I would like to meet him.
> > The usual
> > policy is: if you are Argentine, you can dance after two lessons,
> > you are a
> > worthy partner of all the visiting teachers, and you get to
> > translate in
> > classes, even if you don't know what you are talking about.
> > If you are not Argentine, you have to either be very pretty and
> > half nude,
> > or you have to have danced for at least 7 years before they are
> > ready to
> > acknowledge you to be anywhere near their prowess.
> > I have only heard someone as dignified and as experienced at tango
> > as Nito
> > Garcia say:"I learn from my students."
> >
> > Astrid
>
