5333 Franelear -- have you tried it?
Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 22:13:07 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
More than a year ago I had a conversation with Carlos Alberto Rodriguez when
he used an interesting new word for me--FRANELEAR. I had some idea about
the meaning of the word by his body language and the context in which he
used it--to "franelear" a woman while dancing tango with her. I tried
finding the word in my Spanish-English dictionary to no avail.
A few weeks ago I bought a copy of the new Lunfardo-English dictionary for
tango (1). The book has only four pages of words related to tango beginning
with the letter F. Franelear: to kiss, to caress, to heavy pet. I
realized I understood what Carlos Alberto had meant, because I had
experienced what he was talking about.
That lead me to consult the dictionary of Argentine speech (2) which
contains a broader definition of the word in Castellano. Franelear.
(vulgar transitive verb). to excite another person with caresses without
arriving at the sexual act. This dictionary doesn't indicate the word is
Lunfardo, only vulgar. It is in common use among Argentines.
Then only a week ago during conversation with a tango dancer from Milan,
Roberto Angel Puyol used the word. He said just the opposite of what Carlos
Alberto said while talking about dancing tango with a woman. He said he
dances with a woman to enjoy the dance, not to franelear the woman. Very
interesting. I know that to be true about Roberto Angel's dancing.
So why am I talking about a new word? Two milongueros, whom I have invited
to take part in the Milonguero Conference, have a difference of opinion
about it. I have danced with both of them. I have been the recipient of
franeleando while dancing with several milongueros over the years. In fact,
my lessons in franeleando began during my first visit to Buenos Aires in
1996 when Victorio initiated me on things a woman could do while
dancing with man if she was interested in something more.
I am curious what others think about this topic. I have no doubt it will
draw interesting comments. Have you tried it with anyone while
dancing? Did the other person reciprocate in some way? What were the
consequences? Did you enjoy it? Are you trying to remember occasions and
with whom you were dancing?
(1) Mataburros Lunfardo/English dictionary of tango by Sara Melul and
Roberto Cruanas. July 2007
Available at Zivals on Corrientes and Callao for 39 pesos.
(2) Diccionario del Habla de Los Argentinos. Academia Argentina de Letras.
La Nacion. 2003
Janis
Milonguero Conference
www.totango.net/milongueros.html
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:05:45 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
Sometimes I will instruct a student (usually a man) to
lightly brush the woman's legs in order to get him to move
closer to the woman. Usually, I'll need to do it for
progressive back ochos where the man tends to go more
sideways than forward. The woman, in turn, can lightly
brush back (inside thigh to inside thigh). I believe this
is one example of what you're referring to.
Teaching these franelas (sp?) can also be useful for
getting the woman rotated enough to stay close to the man
during pasadas. I'm not aware of any inappropriate use of
them after I've taught them (i.e. no one has complained of
their use, if they have been used).
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Janis Kenyon <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> wrote:
> More than a year ago I had a conversation with Carlos
> Alberto Rodriguez when
> he used an interesting new word for me--FRANELEAR. I had
> some idea about
> the meaning of the word by his body language and the
> context in which he
> used it--to "franelear" a woman while dancing tango with
> her. I tried
> finding the word in my Spanish-English dictionary to no
> avail.
>
> A few weeks ago I bought a copy of the new
> Lunfardo-English dictionary for
> tango (1). The book has only four pages of words related
> to tango beginning
> with the letter F. Franelear: to kiss, to caress, to
> heavy pet. I
> realized I understood what Carlos Alberto had meant,
> because I had
> experienced what he was talking about.
>
> That lead me to consult the dictionary of Argentine
> speech (2) which
> contains a broader definition of the word in Castellano.
> Franelear.
> (vulgar transitive verb). to excite another person with
> caresses without
> arriving at the sexual act. This dictionary doesn't
> indicate the word is
> Lunfardo, only vulgar. It is in common use among
> Argentines.
>
> Then only a week ago during conversation with a tango
> dancer from Milan,
> Roberto Angel Puyol used the word. He said just the
> opposite of what Carlos
> Alberto said while talking about dancing tango with a
> woman. He said he
> dances with a woman to enjoy the dance, not to franelear
> the woman. Very
> interesting. I know that to be true about Roberto
> Angel's dancing.
>
> So why am I talking about a new word? Two milongueros,
> whom I have invited
> to take part in the Milonguero Conference, have a
> difference of opinion
> about it. I have danced with both of them. I have been
> the recipient of
> franeleando while dancing with several milongueros over
> the years. In fact,
> my lessons in franeleando began during my first visit to
> Buenos Aires in
> 1996 when Victorio initiated me on things a woman could
> do while
> dancing with man if she was interested in something more.
>
> I am curious what others think about this topic. I have
> no doubt it will
> draw interesting comments. Have you tried it with anyone
> while
> dancing? Did the other person reciprocate in some way?
> What were the
> consequences? Did you enjoy it? Are you trying to
> remember occasions and
> with whom you were dancing?
>
>
> (1) Mataburros Lunfardo/English dictionary of tango by
> Sara Melul and
> Roberto Cruanas. July 2007
> Available at Zivals on Corrientes and Callao for 39
> pesos.
> (2) Diccionario del Habla de Los Argentinos. Academia
> Argentina de Letras.
> La Nacion. 2003
>
>
> Janis
>
> Milonguero Conference
> www.totango.net/milongueros.html
>
>
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
Be a better friend, newshound, and
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 11:22:12 +0100
From: desdelasnubes@web.de
Subject: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
To: Janis Kenyon <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>, Tango-L
Janis and Trini,
I'm not sure what is meant by "franelear" and "franela".
This might be partially due to the fact that neither Spanish
nor English are my native languages.
As I understood there are milongueros in BA ready
to provide explanations or even hands-on experience on this matter.
But as I live oceans away from Buenos Aires in the very heart of Europe,
where there are no milongueros at hand to
consult as primary sources, I have to relie on secondary sources.
Doing some googling provided the following results:
"Franela: Manoseo sexual.
Franelear: Roce amoroso.
Franelero: El que pasa el tiempo en una casa de tolerancia sin hacer uso de ninguna mujer. "
See: https://www.elportaldeltango.com/lunfardo/f.htm
In my poor English translation this would be:
"Franela: Sexual fingering/touching
Franelear: to make out / to hook up [AE], to snog [BE] (see:
https://forum.wordreference.com/archive/index.php/t-74667.html)
Franelero: One who passes the time in a house of tolerance without making use of any woman."
Having considered the translations my first guess was that franelear does not necessarily have to do
with dancing tango, it might even interfere with the dancing.
My observation in milongas [hereabouts] is that followers do not appreciate the
"franelear/franela/franelero"-thing too much. But there are no reliable statistics on this ;)
The practice of franelear may occasionally even lead to tango interruptus or shortened tandas.
One reason could be that there are no workshops taught on franeleo hereabouts
(at least not to my knowledge), so it might not be done skilfully enough. ;)
As I understand this is different in the United States, where franela-skills are promoted
by teaching in classes or practicas:
Trini de Pittsburgh wrote:
> Teaching these franelas (sp?) can also be useful for
> getting the woman rotated enough to stay close to the man
> during pasadas.
We have all sorts of tango teaching on tango-pilates-tango-yoga-tango-music-tango-nuevo-tango-tantra etc.
But nobody has ever thought of including the franeleo in the teaching.
At least not to my knowledge.
Still franeleo seems to occur from time to time, not in practicas maybe, rather in late-night milongas.
And though I have observed there are quite tolerant people in the milongas
I assume the level of tolerance in milongas is probably significantly lower than in the
houses specially designed for tolerance. But again, this is mere hypothesis, sorry for not being able
to shed light on this subject.
Anna
>
> --- Janis Kenyon <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> wrote:
>
> > More than a year ago I had a conversation with Carlos
> > Alberto Rodriguez when
> > he used an interesting new word for me--FRANELEAR. I had
> > some idea about
> > the meaning of the word by his body language and the
> > context in which he
> > used it--to "franelear" a woman while dancing tango with
> > her. I tried
> > finding the word in my Spanish-English dictionary to no
> > avail.
> >
> > A few weeks ago I bought a copy of the new
> > Lunfardo-English dictionary for
> > tango (1). The book has only four pages of words related
> > to tango beginning
> > with the letter F. Franelear: to kiss, to caress, to
> > heavy pet. I
> > realized I understood what Carlos Alberto had meant,
> > because I had
> > experienced what he was talking about.
> >
> > That lead me to consult the dictionary of Argentine
> > speech (2) which
> > contains a broader definition of the word in Castellano.
> > Franelear.
> > (vulgar transitive verb). to excite another person with
> > caresses without
> > arriving at the sexual act. This dictionary doesn't
> > indicate the word is
> > Lunfardo, only vulgar. It is in common use among
> > Argentines.
> >
> > Then only a week ago during conversation with a tango
> > dancer from Milan,
> > Roberto Angel Puyol used the word. He said just the
> > opposite of what Carlos
> > Alberto said while talking about dancing tango with a
> > woman. He said he
> > dances with a woman to enjoy the dance, not to franelear
> > the woman. Very
> > interesting. I know that to be true about Roberto
> > Angel's dancing.
> >
> > So why am I talking about a new word? Two milongueros,
> > whom I have invited
> > to take part in the Milonguero Conference, have a
> > difference of opinion
> > about it. I have danced with both of them. I have been
> > the recipient of
> > franeleando while dancing with several milongueros over
> > the years. In fact,
> > my lessons in franeleando began during my first visit to
> > Buenos Aires in
> > 1996 when Victorio initiated me on things a woman could
> > do while
> > dancing with man if she was interested in something more.
> >
> > I am curious what others think about this topic. I have
> > no doubt it will
> > draw interesting comments. Have you tried it with anyone
> > while
> > dancing? Did the other person reciprocate in some way?
> > What were the
> > consequences? Did you enjoy it? Are you trying to
> > remember occasions and
> > with whom you were dancing?
> >
> >
> > (1) Mataburros Lunfardo/English dictionary of tango by
> > Sara Melul and
> > Roberto Cruanas. July 2007
> > Available at Zivals on Corrientes and Callao for 39
> > pesos.
> > (2) Diccionario del Habla de Los Argentinos. Academia
> > Argentina de Letras.
> > La Nacion. 2003
> >
> >
> > Janis
> >
> > Milonguero Conference
> > www.totango.net/milongueros.html
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
> Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
> https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
>
>
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
>
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Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:00:08 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
To: desdelasnubes@web.de, Janis Kenyon <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>,
Hi Anna,
Franelas, as I've been taught and teach, are light
brushings that can occur between partners. This may be
different (perhaps a lot more sanitized) than what Janis
had in mind. But I think their acceptance (or not) is in
how they are being used.
I would also guess, as you mentioned, that most women would
not appreciate being "felt up" by a dancer, particularly if
it's not invited. After I've taught someone about franelas
(my version), I can't say whether the student has continued
using it. They don't use it when dancing with me with any
consistency, but they may choose to use it with someone
else. Thus, I'm not aware of any complaints because it
either isn't being used or it is used by willing
participants. I wouldn't be surprised if it's used more
often in larger communities with a lot more young singles.
For couples, it can be a nice romantic thing that they can
share.
Americans tend have more of an issue with personal space
than Europeans and Latin Americans. Perhaps this is why
they might not be taught in Europe. Teaching these
brushings as simply part of the dance (like an ornament,
for example) helps break down this issue. For things like
turns with sacadas, in which couples open up, I find
franelas during pasadas useful for getting couples to get
back in close-embrace.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- desdelasnubes@web.de wrote:
> Janis and Trini,
>
> I'm not sure what is meant by "franelear" and "franela".
> This might be partially due to the fact that neither
> Spanish
> nor English are my native languages.
> As I understood there are milongueros in BA ready
> to provide explanations or even hands-on experience on
> this matter.
> But as I live oceans away from Buenos Aires in the very
> heart of Europe,
> where there are no milongueros at hand to
> consult as primary sources, I have to relie on secondary
> sources.
> Doing some googling provided the following results:
>
> "Franela: Manoseo sexual.
> Franelear: Roce amoroso.
> Franelero: El que pasa el tiempo en una casa de
> tolerancia sin hacer uso de ninguna mujer. "
> See: https://www.elportaldeltango.com/lunfardo/f.htm
>
> In my poor English translation this would be:
>
> "Franela: Sexual fingering/touching
>
> Franelear: to make out / to hook up [AE], to snog [BE]
> (see:
>
https://forum.wordreference.com/archive/index.php/t-74667.html)
>
> Franelero: One who passes the time in a house of
> tolerance without making use of any woman."
>
> Having considered the translations my first guess was
> that franelear does not necessarily have to do
> with dancing tango, it might even interfere with the
> dancing.
> My observation in milongas [hereabouts] is that
> followers do not appreciate the
> "franelear/franela/franelero"-thing too much. But there
> are no reliable statistics on this ;)
> The practice of franelear may occasionally even lead to
> tango interruptus or shortened tandas.
> One reason could be that there are no workshops taught on
> franeleo hereabouts
> (at least not to my knowledge), so it might not be done
> skilfully enough. ;)
> As I understand this is different in the United States,
> where franela-skills are promoted
> by teaching in classes or practicas:
>
> Trini de Pittsburgh wrote:
>
> > Teaching these franelas (sp?) can also be useful for
> > getting the woman rotated enough to stay close to the
> man
> > during pasadas.
>
> We have all sorts of tango teaching on
>
tango-pilates-tango-yoga-tango-music-tango-nuevo-tango-tantra
> etc.
> But nobody has ever thought of including the franeleo in
> the teaching.
> At least not to my knowledge.
> Still franeleo seems to occur from time to time, not in
> practicas maybe, rather in late-night milongas.
> And though I have observed there are quite tolerant
> people in the milongas
> I assume the level of tolerance in milongas is probably
> significantly lower than in the
> houses specially designed for tolerance. But again, this
> is mere hypothesis, sorry for not being able
> to shed light on this subject.
>
> Anna
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 17:40:37 -0600
From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
Hmmmm...I have several comments...and some sweeping generalizations.
As a person who has been bringing people (mostly women) to BA for several
years, I can tell you that some foreign women are not adverse to getting the
"full milonguero experience", and there are some Argentine men who are quite
willing to help them. It is not surprising that misunderstandings occur, as
one woman related in a story in our local tango newsletter. She told about
dancing multiple times with a man who raved about her dancing, then asked
her for coffee. When she explained she was married, he never looked at her
again.
So I am wondering about another problem - some of the men I bring, or
Americans or European men I talk to there, complain of rude behavior by
Argentine men toward them. Deliberate bumping or crowding on the dance
floor, rude hand signals, unsavory comments - what are the Portenos so angry
about? I thought it was poor floorcraft, but these foreigners are good
dancers with good floorcraft. Are Argentines afraid that the foreigners are
cutting in on their action? After all, not only are we sometimes easy sexual
targets, but often easy marks for expensive tango lessons as well.
I was asked by a tanguero why we come so far to dance when we are such
excellent dancers with such good technique - can't we just stay home and
dance with each other? Wouldn't that be tragic to the Argentine male, not to
mention the tourist industry!
I remember a local swing dance teacher who got popular by teaching overly
sensual moves that men just loved. It was like getting permission for
inappropriate behavior - (my teacher taught me this move!). He was popular
until the men discovered that women didn't appreciate the moves so much.
Loisa Donnay
Minneapolis
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 4:22 AM
Subject: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
Janis and Trini,
I'm not sure what is meant by "franelear" and "franela".
This might be partially due to the fact that neither Spanish
nor English are my native languages.
As I understood there are milongueros in BA ready
to provide explanations or even hands-on experience on this matter.
But as I live oceans away from Buenos Aires in the very heart of Europe,
where there are no milongueros at hand to
consult as primary sources, I have to relie on secondary sources.
Doing some googling provided the following results:
"Franela: Manoseo sexual.
Franelear: Roce amoroso.
Franelero: El que pasa el tiempo en una casa de tolerancia sin hacer uso de
ninguna mujer. "
See: https://www.elportaldeltango.com/lunfardo/f.htm
In my poor English translation this would be:
"Franela: Sexual fingering/touching
Franelear: to make out / to hook up [AE], to snog [BE] (see:
https://forum.wordreference.com/archive/index.php/t-74667.html)
Franelero: One who passes the time in a house of tolerance without making
use of any woman."
Having considered the translations my first guess was that franelear does
not necessarily have to do
with dancing tango, it might even interfere with the dancing.
My observation in milongas [hereabouts] is that followers do not appreciate
the
"franelear/franela/franelero"-thing too much. But there are no reliable
statistics on this ;)
The practice of franelear may occasionally even lead to tango interruptus or
shortened tandas.
One reason could be that there are no workshops taught on franeleo
hereabouts
(at least not to my knowledge), so it might not be done skilfully enough. ;)
As I understand this is different in the United States, where franela-skills
are promoted
by teaching in classes or practicas:
Trini de Pittsburgh wrote:
> Teaching these franelas (sp?) can also be useful for
> getting the woman rotated enough to stay close to the man
> during pasadas.
We have all sorts of tango teaching on
tango-pilates-tango-yoga-tango-music-tango-nuevo-tango-tantra etc.
But nobody has ever thought of including the franeleo in the teaching.
At least not to my knowledge.
Still franeleo seems to occur from time to time, not in practicas maybe,
rather in late-night milongas.
And though I have observed there are quite tolerant people in the milongas
I assume the level of tolerance in milongas is probably significantly lower
than in the
houses specially designed for tolerance. But again, this is mere hypothesis,
sorry for not being able
to shed light on this subject.
Anna
>
> --- Janis Kenyon <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> wrote:
>
> > More than a year ago I had a conversation with Carlos
> > Alberto Rodriguez when
> > he used an interesting new word for me--FRANELEAR. I had
> > some idea about
> > the meaning of the word by his body language and the
> > context in which he
> > used it--to "franelear" a woman while dancing tango with
> > her. I tried
> > finding the word in my Spanish-English dictionary to no
> > avail.
> >
> > A few weeks ago I bought a copy of the new
> > Lunfardo-English dictionary for
> > tango (1). The book has only four pages of words related
> > to tango beginning
> > with the letter F. Franelear: to kiss, to caress, to
> > heavy pet. I
> > realized I understood what Carlos Alberto had meant,
> > because I had
> > experienced what he was talking about.
> >
> > That lead me to consult the dictionary of Argentine
> > speech (2) which
> > contains a broader definition of the word in Castellano.
> > Franelear.
> > (vulgar transitive verb). to excite another person with
> > caresses without
> > arriving at the sexual act. This dictionary doesn't
> > indicate the word is
> > Lunfardo, only vulgar. It is in common use among
> > Argentines.
> >
> > Then only a week ago during conversation with a tango
> > dancer from Milan,
> > Roberto Angel Puyol used the word. He said just the
> > opposite of what Carlos
> > Alberto said while talking about dancing tango with a
> > woman. He said he
> > dances with a woman to enjoy the dance, not to franelear
> > the woman. Very
> > interesting. I know that to be true about Roberto
> > Angel's dancing.
> >
> > So why am I talking about a new word? Two milongueros,
> > whom I have invited
> > to take part in the Milonguero Conference, have a
> > difference of opinion
> > about it. I have danced with both of them. I have been
> > the recipient of
> > franeleando while dancing with several milongueros over
> > the years. In fact,
> > my lessons in franeleando began during my first visit to
> > Buenos Aires in
> > 1996 when Victorio initiated me on things a woman could
> > do while
> > dancing with man if she was interested in something more.
> >
> > I am curious what others think about this topic. I have
> > no doubt it will
> > draw interesting comments. Have you tried it with anyone
> > while
> > dancing? Did the other person reciprocate in some way?
> > What were the
> > consequences? Did you enjoy it? Are you trying to
> > remember occasions and
> > with whom you were dancing?
> >
> >
> > (1) Mataburros Lunfardo/English dictionary of tango by
> > Sara Melul and
> > Roberto Cruanas. July 2007
> > Available at Zivals on Corrientes and Callao for 39
> > pesos.
> > (2) Diccionario del Habla de Los Argentinos. Academia
> > Argentina de Letras.
> > La Nacion. 2003
> >
> >
> > Janis
> >
> > Milonguero Conference
> > www.totango.net/milongueros.html
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
> Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social
> dance!
> https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
>
>
>
>
>
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
>
>
Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
https://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc0071&distributionid 0000000066
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:24:35 EST
From: MACFroggy@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
To: donnay@donnay.net, tango-l@mit.edu
Just a small example of tango "style" misunderstandings:
Ruben and I often have U.S. couples as students, and as part of our teaching
program, we accompany them to milongas to dance and explain the codigos, etc.
One time Ruben takes the lady out to dance and after the tanda whispers to me
that I have to explain to her that wrapping her leg around the man's waist
gives a certain "impression" to the Argentine milongueros.
When I spoke to the lady about this, she was shocked. "But that's what we
learned in our tango classes in the U.S.!!"
Responsible tango teachers around the world should be aware of possible
misunderstandings of certain moves in other cultures--especially in the milongas of
Buenos Aires.
https://tangocherie.blogspot.com/
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:51:57 +1100
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0256643ADC@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
I thought the original post on this thread was a joke. At least I hoped it was but as it has been responded to as if it was serious I feel compelled to reply. Tango is a dance built on trust (not to mention courtesy and respect), so how can someone trust you if you are touching them up. All the followers I know are serious dancers and would just walk off the floor immediately. So they should, because to my mind using a dance for cheap thrills is just sad, pathetic and if uninvited the lowest form of cowardice.
Now for something a little more positive and the real reason I am responding. In answer to Lois' point below, I can say that in the two weeks my wife and I were both in Argentina recently (with quite a lot of social dancing) we both had only courtesy and gentlemanly behaviour from Argentines we met. No doubt I did observe some loud mouth show offs and also some obvious 'old guy dancing with very young foreign girl who is dancing badly' behaviour, but lets face it, that can happen anywhere. All of the local guys I actually spoke to seemed genuinely pleased that a foreign dancer wanted to come and dance tango in Argentina and I found them in most cases to be quite modest and quietly spoken one on one. This pleasantly surprised me given their collective national stereotype.
Yes, at certain milongas there appeared to be a small minority of back tapping sleazy types, but I thought they were mostly pretty easy to pick and that is where the Cabaceo is good, the woman gets to choose who she dances with. So I am not sure if we were just extremely lucky, but I suspect we had two things going for us. Firstly a positive attitude (or at least a pigheaded determination to succeed in my case ;-))is critical as with all travel because obviously there is a lot of unusual stuff and misunderstandings to deal with. If you expect it to be like Australia, for instance, it can get very stressful very quickly and once you let it get to you the whole place can seem unfriendly. Secondly, being a good catholic boy with a fair bit of Spanish blood and family I probably have some insights into the value system and I think my wife who has spent a lot of time in Italy probably also saw a lot that was familiar. Its not Australia, Europe or the US, its different and you hav!
e to accept that you are in their place playing by their rules.
Now I know quite a lot of westerners report bad experiences (including some people I really like and respect) so I know it can happen, but I just wanted to put down our good experience so that anyone contemplating a trip can see that it is not always bad. In fact, I know quite a few female dancers from Australia who just keep going back year after year so I think there can be a lot of good experiences as well as the bad ones.
Victor Bennetts
> [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
>So I am wondering about another problem - some of the men I bring, or >Americans or European men I talk to there, complain of rude behavior >by Argentine men toward them.
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:59:36 +0900
From: "Astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
To: <MACFroggy@aol.com>, <donnay@donnay.net>, <tango-l@mit.edu>
> One time Ruben takes the lady out to dance and after the tanda whispers to
> me
> that I have to explain to her that wrapping her leg around the man's waist
> gives a certain "impression" to the Argentine milongueros.
Responsible tango teachers around the world should be aware of possible
> misunderstandings of certain moves in other cultures--especially in the
> milongas of
> Buenos Aires.
Cherie,
I think, you should rephrase this to:
Responsible teachers around the world should be aware of the fact that some
people in other cultures outside Argentina may not have understood the
original meaning of certain tango moves, and may use them carelessly. ; )
>
> https://tangocherie.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
> See AOL's top rated recipes
> (https://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:59 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com
Well said, Astrid.
In a workshop with Carlos Gavito a guy asked how a girl was supposed to
know when to do a certain move. Carlos turned to the girls and said
"Ladies, there's only one thing you need to know about this move: Do it
only when you mean it."
--
Chris
PS Video of Alfred De Angelis, "La Cumparsita":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjPp6CZ2vVo
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:38:01 -0500
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Astrid, Cherie,
Perhaps we could also add that Tango students are not children. When going to BsAs,
or anywhere else for the first time, it's always prudent to first see how the locals
behave and then try to do the same. 'When in Rome, do as the Roman's do'.
Many things are taught in Tango classes, including BsAs Tango classes, that are not
intended for use in the milongas. Why do even responsible teachers always get the
blame for what their [adult] students do?
Keith, HK
On Wed Dec 12 21:59 , "Astrid" sent:
>> One time Ruben takes the lady out to dance and after the tanda whispers to
>> me
>> that I have to explain to her that wrapping her leg around the man's waist
>> gives a certain "impression" to the Argentine milongueros.
> Responsible tango teachers around the world should be aware of possible
>> misunderstandings of certain moves in other cultures--especially in the
>> milongas of
>> Buenos Aires.
>
>Cherie,
>I think, you should rephrase this to:
>Responsible teachers around the world should be aware of the fact that some
>people in other cultures outside Argentina may not have understood the
>original meaning of certain tango moves, and may use them carelessly. ; )
>>
>> https://tangocherie.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> See AOL's top rated recipes
>> (https://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes\?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
>>
>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:34 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com
A responsible (you'd think) tango teacher advised:
> When going to BsAs, or anywhere else for the first time, it's always
> prudent to first see how the locals behave and then try to do the same.
Students, do not try dealing coke or selling sex on your first time in
BsAs milongas.
Unless you're sure your teacher has shown you how to do it correctly. ;)
Chris
> *Subject:* Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
> *From:* Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
> *To:* tango-l@mit.edu
> *Date:* Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:38:01 -0500
>
> Astrid, Cherie,
>
> Perhaps we could also add that Tango students are not children. When
> going to BsAs,
> or anywhere else for the first time, it's always prudent to first see
> how the locals behave and then try to do the same. 'When in Rome, do as
> the Roman's do'.
>
> Many things are taught in Tango classes, including BsAs Tango classes,
> that are not intended for use in the milongas. Why do even responsible
> teachers always get the blame for what their [adult] students do?
>
> Keith, HK
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:24:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
I think you were conned there Cherie. I've been on the
receiving end of more than one uninvited waist wrap. It's a
situation that always calls for the hand sanitizer before
inviting the next woman to dance. I have been to many
classes in many different parts of the US, and I have never
seen women taught to initiate a leg wrap around the man's
waist. Believe it or not, women here are generally taught
to follow the man's lead.
While it is very dangerous to make any generalizations
about people, particularly about those from the US, I will
take the chance and say that I find it extremely unlikely
that any woman could be unaware of the message that
wrapping her leg around a man's waist sends to every man in
the room. (Understanding that the man didn't lead her to do
that.) American men are not so different from Argentine men
that we can't recognize a blatant proposition. I suspect
that the "shocked" response by the woman in your example
was entirely feigned.
Sean
--- MACFroggy@aol.com wrote:
One time Ruben takes the lady out to dance and after the
tanda whispers to me that I have to explain to her that
wrapping her leg around the man's waist gives a certain
"impression" to the Argentine milongueros.
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:20:43 -0700 (MST)
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@eninet.eas.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Sean writes:
> While it is very dangerous to make any generalizations
> about people, particularly about those from the US, I will
> take the chance and say that I find it extremely unlikely
> that any woman could be unaware of the message that
> wrapping her leg around a man's waist sends to every man in
> the room.
Except me, apparently. Rats, looks like I missed
the dang boat *again*. I swear, sometimes a woman's
got to hit me on the head with a 2x4 before I get
the message that she's interested. :)
Huck
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:31:34 +1100
From: Victor Bennetts <Victor_Bennetts@infosys.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
<EBAF6BD07D1C6C42AF55D51893B4C6DA0256643AF7@AUSMELMBX01.ad.infosys.com>
Damn, I must be going to the wrong milongas. But I did see some very strange pills at El Beso. I assumed they were flu medicine but now I am not so sure...
Victor Bennetts
>A responsible (you'd think) tango teacher advised:
>> When going to BsAs, or anywhere else for the first time, it's always
>> prudent to first see how the locals behave and then try to do the same.
>Students, do not try dealing coke or selling sex on your first time in
>BsAs milongas.
>Unless you're sure your teacher has shown you how to do it correctly. >;)
>Chris
> *Subject:* Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
> *From:* Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
> *To:* tango-l@mit.edu
> *Date:* Wed, 12 Dec 2007 10:38:01 -0500
>
> Astrid, Cherie,
>
> Perhaps we could also add that Tango students are not children. When
> going to BsAs,
> or anywhere else for the first time, it's always prudent to first see
> how the locals behave and then try to do the same. 'When in Rome, do as
> the Roman's do'.
>
> Many things are taught in Tango classes, including BsAs Tango classes,
> that are not intended for use in the milongas. Why do even responsible
> teachers always get the blame for what their [adult] students do?
>
> Keith, HK
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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:48:12 -0800
From: meaning of life <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
To: Huck Kennedy <huck@eninet.eas.asu.edu>, <tango-l@mit.edu>
everytime i feel a women wrap her leg around my waist, i feel my wife wrap her fingers around my neck.
negatively affects the moment, so much for the "trance"
The Tangonista
Sponsered by P.E.T.A. (People Expressing Tango Attitude)
NOTICE - no cats were injured in the making of our music
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:20:43 -0700
> From: huck@eninet.eas.asu.edu
> To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Franelear -- have you tried it?
>
> Sean writes:
>> While it is very dangerous to make any generalizations
>> about people, particularly about those from the US, I will
>> take the chance and say that I find it extremely unlikely
>> that any woman could be unaware of the message that
>> wrapping her leg around a man's waist sends to every man in
>> the room.
>
> Except me, apparently. Rats, looks like I missed
> the dang boat *again*. I swear, sometimes a woman's
> got to hit me on the head with a 2x4 before I get
> the message that she's interested. :)
>
> Huck
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