4252 Getting to Expert
Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 13:57:12 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@Tango.org>
Subject: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert
To: tango-L@mit.edu
format=flowed
Interesting article in the New York Times about expertise and
excellence:
I would like to highlight one paragraph out of the longer quote:
> Deliberate practice entails more than simply repeating a task ?
> playing a C-minor scale 100 times, for instance, or hitting tennis
> serves until your shoulder pops out of its socket. Rather, it
> involves setting specific goals, obtaining immediate feedback and
> concentrating as much on technique as on outcome.
Sounds about right for tango...
I'm quoting somewhat at length because you may need a login to read
the article.
https://www.nytimes.com May 7, 2006
> Anders Ericsson, a 58-year-old psychology professor at Florida
> State University .... is the ringleader of what might be called the
> Expert Performance Movement, a loose coalition of scholars trying
> to answer an important and seemingly primordial question: When
> someone is very good at a given thing, what is it that actually
> makes him good?
>
> ... His first experiment, nearly 30 years ago, involved memory:
> training a person to hear and then repeat a random series of
> numbers. "With the first subject, after about 20 hours of training,
> his digit span had risen from 7 to 20," Ericsson recalls. "He kept
> improving, and after about 200 hours of training he had risen to
> over 80 numbers."
>
> This success, coupled with later research showing that memory
> itself is not genetically determined, led Ericsson to conclude that
> the act of memorizing is more of a cognitive exercise than an
> intuitive one. In other words, whatever innate differences two
> people may exhibit in their abilities to memorize, those
> differences are swamped by how well each person "encodes" the
> information. And the best way to learn how to encode information
> meaningfully, Ericsson determined, was a process known as
> deliberate practice.
>
> Deliberate practice entails more than simply repeating a task ?
> playing a C-minor scale 100 times, for instance, or hitting tennis
> serves until your shoulder pops out of its socket. Rather, it
> involves setting specific goals, obtaining immediate feedback and
> concentrating as much on technique as on outcome.
>
> Ericsson and his colleagues have thus taken to studying expert
> performers in a wide range of pursuits, including soccer, golf,
> surgery, piano playing, Scrabble, writing, chess, software design,
> stock picking and darts. They gather all the data they can, not
> just performance statistics and biographical details but also the
> results of their own laboratory experiments with high achievers.
>
> Their work, compiled in the "Cambridge Handbook of Expertise and
> Expert Performance," a 900-page academic book that will be
> published next month, makes a rather startling assertion: the trait
> we commonly call talent is highly overrated. Or, put another way,
> expert performers ? whether in memory or surgery, ballet or
> computer programming ? are nearly always made, not born. And yes,
> practice does make perfect. These may be the sort of clich?s that
> parents are fond of whispering to their children. But these
> particular clich?s just happen to be true.
>
> Ericsson's research suggests a third clich? as well: when it comes
> to choosing a life path, you should do what you love ? because if
> you don't love it, you are unlikely to work hard enough to get very
> good. Most people naturally don't like to do things they aren't
> "good" at. So they often give up, telling themselves they simply
> don't possess the talent for math or skiing or the violin. But what
> they really lack is the desire to be good and to undertake the
> deliberate practice that would make them better.
Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 21:06:05 +0000
From: "Jay Rabe" <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert
To: tango-L@mit.edu
Wynton Marsalis 12 rules of practice (paraphrased for dance):
1. Seek professional instruction (private lessons)
2. Make a schedule, and keep it (not just when you "gotta dance")
3. Concentrate while practicing, and take breaks when you cannot (a good
artist knows when to quit)
4. Set goals. (it's not enough to say, "I just want to be good")
5. Practice slowly and relax
6. Practice hard parts longer
7. Dance with expression
8. Learn from your mistakes
9. Dont show off (dont dance for others)
10. Think for yourself
11. Be optimistic
12. Look for connections/analogies to other fields
J
www.TangoMoments.com
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 13:49:08 +0000 (GMT)
From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert - or, Do you Work on your
Dance??
To: tango-L@mit.edu, stermitz@tango.org
Tom,
This is a timely post.
Tango-L threads are male dominated, hence the technical analyses of this art form, the Tango.
I hope that the correspondents obsessed with the technical minutiae be cursed to only think about these while dancing...
But, I wonder how many of you do practice-work with a steady partner, a real woman, instead of developing constructs of the mind, which I suspect is the case?
Work, like repeating just one figure for hours, then going to a milonga to try it out on the pista, then practice it again?
Do you think of the Practica as the means to learn by rote the technical elements, so that when you are really dancing, you won't think about your axis and position (these are already learned by your body), but about the higher levels of dance: about your partner, the music, the correography?
Or is your practica just another milonga?
Lucia
PS Practice won't make perfect someone with, figuratively speaking, wooden legs... but yearning for perfection is a mistake, it may ruin the enjoyment of dance, any dance...As the Greeks said !Know Thyself!, meaning to come to terms with yourself...
Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@tango.org> escribi?:> Deliberate practice entails more than simply repeating a task ?
> playing a C-minor scale 100 times, for instance, or hitting tennis
> serves until your shoulder pops out of its socket. Rather, it
> involves setting specific goals, obtaining immediate feedback and
> concentrating as much on technique as on outcome.
Sounds about right for tango...
Or, put another way,
> expert performers ? whether in memory or surgery, ballet or
> computer programming ? are nearly always made, not born. And yes,
> practice does make perfect. These may be the sort of clich?s that
> parents are fond of whispering to their children. But these
> particular clich?s just happen to be true.
>
But what
> they really lack is the desire to be good and to undertake the
> deliberate practice that would make them better.
Hor?scopos, Salud y belleza, Chistes, Consejos de amor.
El contenido m?s divertido para tu celular est? en
Yahoo! M?vil
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 07:21:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick Jones <rwjones52@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert (or - Lawrence of Arabia
dances tango)
To: tango-L@mit.edu
"Nine-tenths of tactics were certain enough to be teachable in schools; but the irrational tenth was like the kingfisher flashing across the pool, and in it lay the test of generals. It could be ensued only by instinct (sharpened by thought practising the stroke) until at the crisis it came naturally, a reflex."
-T.E. Lawrence, "Seven Pillars of Wisdom"
If Lawrence had been dancing tango rather than fighting a guerilla war, he might instead have written:
Nine-tenths of tango is certain enough to be teachable in classes; but the irrational tenth is like the kingfisher flashing across the pool, and in it lies the test of milongueros. It can be ensued only by instinct (sharpened by the body practising the step) until at the milonga it comes naturally, a reflex.
Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar> wrote: Tom,
This is a timely post.
Tango-L threads are male dominated, hence the technical analyses of this art form, the Tango.
I hope that the correspondents obsessed with the technical minutiae be cursed to only think about these while dancing...
But, I wonder how many of you do practice-work with a steady partner, a real woman, instead of developing constructs of the mind, which I suspect is the case?
Work, like repeating just one figure for hours, then going to a milonga to try it out on the pista, then practice it again?
Do you think of the Practica as the means to learn by rote the technical elements, so that when you are really dancing, you won't think about your axis and position (these are already learned by your body), but about the higher levels of dance: about your partner, the music, the correography?
Or is your practica just another milonga?
Lucia
PS Practice won't make perfect someone with, figuratively speaking, wooden legs... but yearning for perfection is a mistake, it may ruin the enjoyment of dance, any dance...As the Greeks said !Know Thyself!, meaning to come to terms with yourself...
Tom Stermitz escribi???:> Deliberate practice entails more than simply repeating a task ???
> playing a C-minor scale 100 times, for instance, or hitting tennis
> serves until your shoulder pops out of its socket. Rather, it
> involves setting specific goals, obtaining immediate feedback and
> concentrating as much on technique as on outcome.
Sounds about right for tango...
Or, put another way,
> expert performers ??? whether in memory or surgery, ballet or
> computer programming ??? are nearly always made, not born. And yes,
> practice does make perfect. These may be the sort of clich???s that
> parents are fond of whispering to their children. But these
> particular clich???s just happen to be true.
>
But what
> they really lack is the desire to be good and to undertake the
> deliberate practice that would make them better.
Hor???scopos, Salud y belleza, Chistes, Consejos de amor.
El contenido m???s divertido para tu celular est??? en
Yahoo! M???vil
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 19:10:10 +0200
From: "Sascha Pawlowski" <pawlowss@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert (or - Lawrence of Arabia
dances tango)
To: tango-L@mit.edu
<3261b83f0605091010h6d88f9c2ue058e4068789e28b@mail.gmail.com>
On 5/9/06, Rick Jones <rwjones52@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Nine-tenths of tactics were certain enough to be teachable in schools; but the irrational tenth was like the kingfisher flashing across the pool, and in it lay the test of generals. It could be ensued only by instinct (sharpened by thought practising the stroke) until at the crisis it came naturally, a reflex."
>
> -T.E. Lawrence, "Seven Pillars of Wisdom"
Unfortunately I'm not a native english speaker, could someone please
explain the kingfisher analogy?
Sascha
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 10:25:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick Jones <rwjones52@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert (or - Lawrence of Arabia
dances tango)
To: tango-L@mit.edu
Sascha,
A kingfisher is a small bird that feeds on fish and aquatic animals that live in still or slow moving waters.
https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/guide/k/kingfisher/index.asp
They fly very rapidly over the water, and down very low and close to the water, just a few centimeters above it.
They fly so fast and change direction so quickly that it is impossible to predict their path, which is where the analogy comes in.
Rick
Sascha Pawlowski <pawlowss@gmail.com> wrote: On 5/9/06, Rick Jones wrote:
> "Nine-tenths of tactics were certain enough to be teachable in schools; but the irrational tenth was like the kingfisher flashing across the pool, and in it lay the test of generals. It could be ensued only by instinct (sharpened by thought practising the stroke) until at the crisis it came naturally, a reflex."
>
> -T.E. Lawrence, "Seven Pillars of Wisdom"
Unfortunately I'm not a native english speaker, could someone please
explain the kingfisher analogy?
Sascha
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 13:35:05 EDT
From: Mallpasso@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert (or - Lawrence of Arabia
dances tango)
To: pawlowss@gmail.com, tango-L@mit.edu
I'm not sure about the hidden message Lawrence is trying to convey but I
suspect it has to do with the uncertainties which cannot be factored into any
life's experiences. In this instance Lawrence was writing about the
uncertainties of war tactics:
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_Edward_Lawrence
El Bandido de Tango
On 5/9/06, Rick Jones <rwjones52@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "Nine-tenths of tactics were certain enough to be teachable in schools; but
the irrational tenth was like the kingfisher flashing across the pool, and in
it lay the test of generals. It could be ensued only by instinct (sharpened
by thought practising the stroke) until at the crisis it came naturally, a
reflex."
>
> -T.E. Lawrence, "Seven Pillars of Wisdom"
Unfortunately I'm not a native english speaker, could someone please
explain the kingfisher analogy?
Sascha
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 11:17:40 -0700
From: "Evan Wallace" <evan@tangoing.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert - or, Do you Work on your Dance??
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
On May 9 Astrid Wrote:
I am starting to get the feel(ing) that for some of you, using the word
"man" and "woman" instead of "lead" (ugh!) and "follow" (ughhh!) would be
like calling a spade a spade, which may be therefore...almost... unspeakable
Astrid:
I quite intentionally used the term "lead" and "follow" to describe
functional roles, not gender roles. The concept of gender is irrelevant to
the technical discussion of axis and rotation, which was the subject of my
mail. (I did, however, very intentionally use feminine pronouns when
referring to the follow and male pronouns when referring to the lead as a
sort of compromise, in hopes of preventing just such a response as yours.)
This one goes in the damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't category. I have
also been vehemently criticized by women for using the term "woman" instead
of "follow," since there are many women who lead as well as follow. So, to
those who are upset that I used the word "follow" instead of "woman," or who
would have been upset if I had exclusively used the word "woman" instead of
"follow," I say: Don't get your panties in a bunch.
There. I'm acknowledging your gender and associating with it a typical
choice of undergarment. Is that better?
Evan Wallace
Seattle, WA
www.tangoing.com
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 11:01:46 -0700 (MST)
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@eninet.eas.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert - or, Do you Work on your
Dance??
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Astrid <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp> writes:
> While I do not doubt that at least some of the people here practise,
> another thing hit me recently: as a real woman, being called "a follow"
> is even worse than being called a "follower".
If you feel that way, I would suggest that you are
reading far too much into the difference. To dredge up ol'
Occam's Razor, the simplest explanation is probably
the real one: I suspect the reason most who say "follow"
do so is simply because they talk dance so much that
they eventually get a bit lazy and say "follow" because
it's one fewer syllable than "follower."
> I am starting to get the feel(ing) that for some of you, using the
> word "man" and "woman" instead of "lead" (ugh!) and "follow"
> (ughhh!) would be like calling a spade a spade, which may be
> therefore...almost... unspeakable !
>
> Come on, give the other sex a break ! After all, we are trying
> to dance together !"
Well a few years ago we were all informed that
saying "the man and the woman" was sexist and limiting
the woman to only following and never leading, and that
in order to avoid being considered simian, knuckle-dragging
sexists, we were to instead use the gender-neutral "leader"
and "follower."
So your beef is with Gloria Steinem, and not us. :)
Huck
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 12:01:30 -0700
From: "Evan Wallace" <evan@tangoing.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert - or, Do you Work on your
Dance??
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
On May 9 Astrid Wrote:
As a real woman, being called "a follow" is even worse than being called a
"follower".
Astrid:
On this point I will have to agree. After a few minutes of thought, I can't
think of any other instance in which the verb form of an activity (e.g., to
run, to jump, to dive) is the same as the noun for the person who does that
activity (e.g., a runner, a jumper, a diver). I don't know how this became
common in the English-speaking Tango world (e.g., "There are a lot more
leads than follows here tonight"), but now that you mention it, it bothers
me to. Henceforth, I shall call you a "follower" when you follow, and a
"leader" when and if you lead, and a "woman" in any other context where your
gender's characteristic morphology, behavior, or choice of sexy shoes is
important.
Evan Wallace
Seattle, WA
www.tangoing.com
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 19:08:12 +0000 (GMT)
From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert (or - Lawrence of Arabia
dances tango)
To: Mallpasso@aol.com, pawlowss@gmail.com, tango-L@mit.edu
Mallpasso@aol.com escribi?:
I'm not sure about the hidden message Lawrence is trying to convey but
[snip]
---------------------------
I'll give a try:
Combat drill attempts to instill the feel for the field of battle and appropriate behaviour, the handling of arms, the orientation in difficult situation, these becoming second nature.
For it is only when he is absolutely succesful with these skills that the soldier has a chance of staying alive under fire.
Those rare soldiers, who in addition to mastering of lower soldierly skills, have the physical courage, the understanding of the sense of the battle and the skill to manage it, the intelligence and leadership talent - to !raise above the battle scene! - they are the true commanders.
They are the !kingfishers!.
As we see, there's a similarity with the Great Tangueros....
Lucia ;-)
Hor?scopos, Salud y belleza, Chistes, Consejos de amor.
El contenido m?s divertido para tu celular est? en
Yahoo! M?vil
Date: Tue, 9 May 2006 13:44:02 -0700
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert - or, Do you Work on your
Dance??
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Astrid,
Of course dancing is the best, and if you know how to dance, you do not need
to participate in scholarly discussions if you have no interest in them, and
the word follower is not particularly nice ( but it is just a role, have you
been an "employee"? ), however, let me ask you:
1. When you dance, do you know how to make a leader to lead you to something
you want?
2. When you dance, do you know how to affect him so he receives and
appreciates a signal from you to pivot or to step, to react to you in a
certain way, while he still is leading in the dance?
3. When you dance, do you know how to block his wrong or unwanted movements?
4. Can you grab a beginner, and make a decent dance with him?
If you do, I am in line to dance with you!
Well, I am in line anyway :)
By the way,
I have read somewhere that there are people who learn by:
1. visually,
2. when somebody tells them,
3. with touch, through the tactile feelings,
4. through logical explanations.
5. ...
I guess Internet is a wonderful media for those who like logical
explanations and discussions - that is the way they learn! I personally,
concluded a lot from the recent technical discussions.
Those who participate in discussions do not have to be right all the time
( sorry, if it is misleading for someone ). That is the way the truth is
revealed, found, and constructed. We should not be afraid of our mistakes!
That is the way to fix them. Especially in the healthy community. And they
are not mistakes, they are just possibilities. It is useful to know about
all of them, good, bad, right, wrong.
On the other hand, those who criticize discussions, proclaim. Aha! Here it
is much more dangerous ground! ...
Igor.
Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 12:19:45 -0400
From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert - or, Do you Work on your Axis?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I had to laugh - Henry Miller, physics of axis et al.
It's true, speaking as a woman, I find myself fighting all those technical
terms because my dance partner is an engineer so it's the only language that
he seems to understand. Just dance, I would tell him, stop trying to break
down every single step into a mathematical equation because otherwise you
would lose the essence of what Tango is all about.
I feel the more analytical he gets about the steps, the further away he
becomes from the feel of what the steps are about. The last class we were
in, I hissed at him because he spent a half an hour asking the teachers to
explain the "double step" that the women would do to adjust when the man
leads forward with his left leg. He just couldn't wrap his head around it.
(It was literally, "so, you have to breathe in, pause and then lead forward
with your left leg? Or do you pause then breathe in, relax then lead with
the left leg or is it breathe in, pause, then lead with the left leg? Can
you show me again but really slowly, please? In fact, could you count out
each step?" It went on and on and on like this, I was on the verge of
throttling him. I have actually told him that from now on, he's only allowed
five minutes of questions in class or I would never go with him again.
Other people in the class were starting to give him dirty looks because he
was monopolizing the teachers' time away from teaching the other steps that
we were supposed to learn that day. Finally, I had to step in and say to the
teachers that I will help him figure it out and to please continue with
their lessons.
Last night, when we practiced, I had to stop everything and exchange roles
with him so that I was the man and he was the woman just so I could show him
how to lead because he was getting so caught up in the technical that I felt
as though we were robots being programmed to do such and such exactly. By
playing the leader, I was able to show him the more natural and sensual
movements of pivoting a woman, of guiding her to where he wants to go with
his shoulders, with the slight pressure of his hand on her back, of leaning
over just slightly as if to walk again the wind.
He was very embarrassed that I forced him to follow but after a few songs,
he began to understand in ten minutes what the last six months had failed to
teach him - which is Tango is a sensual dance between a man and a woman,
done in time to music. Everything else will follow with practice and
improved body memory.
Keep it simple, silly.
Caroline
Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has
to offer.
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Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 22:33:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Getting to Expert - or, Do you Work on your
Axis?
Caroline,
When you and your partner reach a more advanced level
of tango, you just might be glad of the way he
processes tango. Nerdiness becomes a big plus.
Really good tango is in the details.
But I understand your dilemma. Nice solution.
Trini de Pittsburgh
P.S. I would be more upset with the teachers for
letting him monopolize class time.
--- Caroline Polack <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> I feel the more analytical he gets about the steps,
> the further away he
> becomes from the feel of what the steps are about.
> The last class we were
> in, I hissed at him because he spent a half an hour
> asking the teachers to
> explain the "double step" that the women would do to
> adjust when the man
> leads forward with his left leg. He just couldn't
> wrap his head around it.
> (It was literally, "so, you have to breathe in,
> pause and then lead forward
> with your left leg? Or do you pause then breathe in,
> relax then lead with
> the left leg or is it breathe in, pause, then lead
> with the left leg? Can
> you show me again but really slowly, please? In
> fact, could you count out
> each step?" It went on and on and on like this, I
> was on the verge of
> throttling him. I have actually told him that from
> now on, he's only allowed
> five minutes of questions in class or I would never
> go with him again.
>
>
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
