1037 Going to Buenos Aires (at last)(sigh)
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:13:55 +0000
From: Daisy Gardiner <tawny_port@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Going to Buenos Aires (at last)(sigh)
I'm writing for some assistance. I'm going to Buenos Aires in May (alone)
and want to stay at a tango house, take some private lessons, go to some
practicas and also to some milongas. And, well... there's so much to choose
from.
So, I'm asking those of you who have been there (or are there) to write to
me offline to recommend the who, what and where (since I will only be there
a little over 2 weeks and I can't do everything). I am not looking to spark
a sparring match on this list about where's the best place to stay or who's
the best teacher, so please don't write to the list.
To help you to help me, here's a little more background: I've been dancing
tango for 3+ years, mostly close embrace, and I want to take classes in that
style. I want to focus on form, not steps. I speak Spanish well enough to
carry on an extended conversation, provided that the other person will speak
slower than the normal pace. (No problem taking lessons in Spanish,
provided that the teacher is a bit patient.) I don't know anything about
Buenos Aires neighborhoods, so I'd like to know whether you recommend San
Telmo over another area, for example.
Again, please respond to me privately. I will gladly share the info with
people who write to me.
Daisy
tawny_port@hotmail.com
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:30:39 -0800
From: "Larry E. Carroll" <larrydla@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Going to Buenos Aires (at last)(sigh)
Daisy, I'm posting to the list because this is an important topic. I
was helped a lot by the TANGO-L discussions on this subject when I went
to Argentina. I think many people on the list will also find it
interesting, even if they don't have any immediate plans to go there.
TRAVEL. Go as high class as you can comfortably afford. This is an
important trip and you want to get all you can out of it. Get an aisle
seat on the plane so you can easily get up and stretch your legs with a
trip to the bathroom. If you have long legs or a back problem get a
bulkhead seat so you can stretch out. Bring two or three utterly
fascinating books; it's a long flight & you'll likely have trouble
sleeping.
WHERE TO STAY. I'd suggest "Maria Tango" (www.mariatango.com.ar). I
got only one negative response from my recent query about her and
almost a dozen positives, including one woman I know personally who's
stayed with her three times. In your first day or two you'll probably
want to explore, so you may want to look at a few hotels just in case
you dislike Maria's situation.
A lot of the hotels are twenty or thirty years out of date even in good
locations. I got a really good deal from a recently remodeled hotel
right in the downtown area, just a block from the Obelisk & three from
Confiteria Ideal, with a dozen terrific eating places within three or
four blocks. Go to www.hotelbristol.com.ar for more info.
A tip about hotel prices. When you go in to explore ask to go up to
see a room. If you like it ask the clerk back downstairs about prices.
When they tell you look unhappy & leave; they may call you back & offer
a better deal. If not, come back later with a friend who's willing to
play bad guy to your good guy; before you give them your credit card
your friend should look unhappy & whisper in your ear. Chances are
you'll get an even bigger price drop. Warning: don't overplay your
acting; subtle is more convincing.
NEIGHBORHOODS. The Center of Buenos Aires is actually the easternmost
part just off the Plate River. The Microcenter is the square kilometer
surrounding el Obelisco at Corrientes & Nueve de Julio and includes the
Casa Rosada & the Congress. El Microcentro is a phenomenal area you
have to see no matter where you go. This is where Confiteria Ideal is;
you must go to this place. It has (or did two years ago) noontime
practicas, matinee milongas (3-10pm), nighttime milongas (11 pm-4am).
It's a good landmark meeting place. A dozen milongas are within a mile
of the Microcenter.
San Telmo (to the Center's south) is old & atmospheric & safe (at least
in the day), but the milongas were disappointing. La Boca (on the south
side of San Telmo) is picturesque, but avoid it at night. Even with my
size and military & police background I wouldn't go there then without
someone along equally experienced. Go by day in a group to this
sometimes beautiful place; experienced local bad guys may warn amateur
muggers to keep hands off of the golden geese but there are always wise
guy pickpockets who'll ignore them.
Caballito (west of the Center & the location of Maria Tango's home) is
a nice residential area about as far west as you'll want to go on your
first trip. There are a number of milongas close by & Gardel's
memorial. North of it (northwest of the Center) is Palermo, an upscale
residential area with a nice shopping center, and several milongas (& I
think an interesting tango show or two).
An interesting place is the Club de Golf, the high-class milonga about
halfway between el Centro & Palermo in the park, which also has the
race track. This is where you will see the upscale, the professionals,
& the government guys with their expensive mistresses or call girls.
It has a small & granite dance floor so it's not for the always-dancing
tangista. One time at this place is probably enough for most of us,
but once was fun.
GOOD MILONGAS. You'll get a lot of argument here, because everyone is
different. What one hates another may love. And of course everyone
will tell you that the milongas they recommend are the only places
where you will experience the ONE TRUE AUTHENTIC tango!
The truth is that Buenos Aires is still the capital of the tango world.
This means here is where you will see the largest milongas, the largest
number of them, and the greatest variety. Here are places for the
young, the old, the middle years after the kids are out of the house -
and each age group often has milongas just for them. Here are places
where everyone dances close, others where this "belly rubbing" is held
in contempt. At some of the (especially younger-trending) milongas you
will see a lot of what used to be called Nuevo Tango.
You will also find a lot of bad dancers in BsAs - because here tango is
truly a popular dance (though less popular than swing, rock, and other
kinds of social dancing). So a lot of people go to milongas just to
socialize or listen to the music & may never dance, or only dance
rarely & just to be friendly. The proportion of tango fanatics is a
lot lower than in the rest of the world. Some people go to milongas,
in fact, just to dance during the breaks from tango, mostly swing or
Tropical - cumbias (think slow salsa/mambo), merengues, etc.
CUSTOMS. By now you've heard about la mirada (the stare) & el cabeceo
(the nod). Men usually hate & women usually love this custom, the only
way to get dances in BsAs - because this custom makes women equal to
men in inviting (& refusing) dances. If you can't accept this custom,
do not go to BsAs.
You've also heard about the tanda (a set of four or five pieces of
music); normally you're expected to dance an entire tanda with a
partner, though quitting after the third piece of music would usually
be polite.
An equally important custom that has rarely been discussed in TANGO-L
is the Conversation. The first half-minute to a minute of each tanda
you are expected to talk to your partner, NOT dance. To do otherwise
is rude. If you really like someone you would also converse during the
first half-minute of each dance of the tanda.
SPANISH. Even if you go with a group or a friend who speaks it, try to
learn a little bit. If nothing else, get a phrase book & practice
enough so that your accent is not too bad. A lot of Argentines speak a
little English, but it's usually rudimentary. And it's the friendly
thing to speak the Argentine's native language at least a little bit.
MORE INFO. The best tourist guides, bar none, are the ones by Lonely
Planet. You must get the one titled "Buenos Aires", and it's a good
idea to get a Buenos Aires city map. There are several Argentine Web
sites devoted to tango & tourism; use Google.com to find them because
it has a computer translator if the sites do not have an English
version.
Once there, there are a couple of tango guides you can buy from the
news stands (which are all over the place). Just remember to call
before going to a milonga, since the guides are out of date as soon as
they are published.
LAST. Try to find some time to travel around & look around, & not just
at the high spots. BsAs is a beautiful city - & a heartbreaking one
with its social problems. You will never forget it, & (if you don't
feel that way immediately) years later you may find you long to return.
Larry de Los Angeles
https://larrydla.home.att.net
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:01:51 -0800
From: Andrew Allison <andrew@AALLISON.COM>
Subject: Going to Buenos Aires
Larry wrote: "A lot of the hotels are twenty or thirty years out of date .
. . . . Personally speaking, I'd take (and have taken) a charming, out of
date but clean and very reasonable hotel of character any time; and
wouldn't even consider one that doesn't post room rates. Regards, Andrew
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:33:51 -0800
From: Andrew Allison <andrew@AALLISON.COM>
Subject: Going to Buenos Aires
At 01:19 PM 2/23/2003, Jim wrote:
>It is unclear in your post, whether you were speaking generally or
>whether your comment was specifically addressed to hotels in BsAs. Would
>you please clarify?
Both, but the subject of the post was: "Going to Buenos Aires."
Andrew
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:00:34 -0800
From: Janet Wilson <jskwilson@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Going to Buenos Aires (at last)(sigh)
Hola list:
I like to be a part of this list because it allows me to be in contact with people of tango and keeps me informed of what happens in the world of tango, especially in Buenos Aires, when I am not there.
Although I am an American woman, I have visited Argentina several times. I frequently visit Buenos Aires though I live in Paris.
I usually accept different points of view on popular topics and I don t like to open a discussion, but I have to inform the list of incorrect information published recently about Buenos Aires, in order to avoid confusion for visitors.
I am talking about Larry s response to Daisy and to the entire list, although she asked that responses be made privately.
Probably Larry is not up to date or he is a little confused because of the time that has passed since he last visited Buenos Aires, when he says "It has (or did two years ago)".
Club del Golf is a very nice confiteria and dancing Club but it has not been a milonga for more than one year.
It is not halfway between El Centro & Palermo. It is in the heart of Palermo Park.
And, what about mistresses or call girls? I don t know Larry s experience about mistresses or call girls, but don t they exist everywhere in the world?
From the beginning Larry is teaching all of us a lot of things. After giving us instructions on how to travel in a plane (very difficult business), Larry recommends lodging based on "his recent query". Maybe, he is not only an experienced voyager but also a professional pollster.
I am not a big "size" nor have a "military & police background" and I recently walked through the streets of San Telmo and la Boca accompanied only by friends who know those neighborhoods.
Every neighborhood has its own personality. Each visitor may fall in love with a different one. Larry said, "a dozen milongas are within a mile of the Microcenter" yet he recommends Caballito. And Gardel s memorial is not in Caballito but in Abasto and his tomb is in Chacarita.
Customs: I think Larry doesn t understand customs in Buenos Aires for women because he is a man. Eye contact (the stare), cabeceo (the nod) and how to refuse a dance are skills you will be able to learn easily once you are in Buenos Aires, if you find the right people there to help you.
My recommendation is to listen only to the experienced people with the current and correct information.
I hope this is helpful for you and others of the list.
Best regards, Jan
