4630  The Good Dancer

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:30:46 -0500
From: "Gibson Batch" <gibsonbatch@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] The Good Dancer
To: TANGO-L@MIT.EDU

Thanks to those who replied so kindly with my earlier posting from today. I
hope this continues as I touch on a more sensitive topic.

I am curious about what makes a good dancer, or should I say, what makes a
dancer think that she/he is good.

To me, a good dancer should be able to make virtually any-and-every
allowance for the music, the partner, the space, the floor, and the
atmosphere in the room. This is equally true for followers and leaders.

Can you dance Tango to Pink Floyd? Can you dance on a rough concrete floor
or gravel? Can you dance with someone who has no timing? Can you dance in
sandals or with someone who is?

I would think good dancers would enjoy themselves under any circumstances.
A good dancer should also make the dance safe for their partner and everyone
around them.

I would hope good dancers would want to spread the wealth of their skill and
get out on the floor, most especially with someone inexperienced.

The 'Good Dancer' snob mentality is not exclusive to tango. I have seen
self-proclaimed 'good dancers' in virtually every one of the 15-or-so dance
forms I have experienced in the last 8 years, including most folk dances,
salsa, ballroom (the worst offenders) and swing.

But it always upsets me to see eager new people turned away from those 'good
dancers' who know how to dance.

Gibson

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:14:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Good Dancer

--- Gibson Batch <gibsonbatch@hotmail.com> wrote:

> But it always upsets me to see eager new people turned
> away from those 'good
> dancers' who know how to dance.

I don't quite understand...turned away how? Are the
newbies asking for a dance and getting refused? Are the
good dancers being so snobbish that they can't say hello?

One thing to keep in mind is that *everybody* wants to
dance with the "good dancers". Somebody is going to be
turned down.

Regarding your earlier email about nuevo music. There are
plenty of slower nuevo peices that are "sad". "Nothing
Else Matters" by Apocolyptica (originally by Metallica) is
one of our favorites. If you don't stay until the end of
the milongas, you might not be hearing those pieces.

Trini de Pittsburgh


PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:37:31 -0700
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Good Dancer
To: <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>

Gibson wrote about what a good dancer can do:

"Can you dance Tango to Pink Floyd? Can you dance on a rough concrete floor
or gravel? Can you dance with someone who has no timing? Can you dance in
sandals or with someone who is?"

A good tango ( Tango! ) dancer-man is able to dance without any music at
all.
That is why he can dance to Pink Floyd. But I am sure he does not want to.
30 years ago I liked Pink Floyd too...

Dancing with someone who has no timing? This is not dancing. Timing, rhythm
is a must for a dance.
No sense of rhythm? No dancing yet. Its only an exercise, sorry.

Well, that is about it. Sense of rhythm, ability to express it, ability to
make a dance ( in accordance with music, of course - here I am with you )
and.. you are a good dancer ! Very simple :)


Igor.

Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 19:57:50 -0600
From: "Brian Dunn" <brian@danceoftheheart.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Good Dancer
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>

Gibson, you wrote:

>>>

I am curious about what makes a good dancer, or should I say, what makes a
dancer think that she/he is good.
<<<
Hell, I don't know if I'm any good. You'd have to ask my partners.

>>>

To me, a good dancer should be able to make virtually any-and-every
allowance for the music, the partner, the space, the floor, and the
atmosphere in the room... Can you dance Tango to Pink Floyd? Can you dance
on a rough concrete floor or gravel? Can you dance with someone who has no
timing? Can you dance in sandals or with someone who is? I would think good
dancers would enjoy themselves under any circumstances.
<<<
Hey, this looks like fun - let me try:

Can you dance tango in scuba gear? How about in Army boots, night vision
goggles, with a 70 pound pack and an M-16?
Can you dance tango next to a jackhammer? How about alongside a high-speed
bus in heavy traffic?
Can you dance tango naked in a blizzard? While being chased by a drunken
snowmobiler?
Can you dance tango upside-down underwater? In a hurricane?

;> ;> ;>

All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
www.danceoftheheart.com
"Building a Better World, One Tango at a Time"

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 12:56:06 EDT
From: TangoSherwin@aol.com
Subject: [Tango-L] Fwd: The Good Dancer

Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:09:43 -0500
From: "Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@ceverett.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Good Dancer
To: Gibson Batch <gibsonbatch@hotmail.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu

Gibson Batch wrote:

> Thanks to those who replied so kindly with my earlier posting from today. I
> hope this continues as I touch on a more sensitive topic.
>
> I am curious about what makes a good dancer, or should I say, what makes a
> dancer think that she/he is good.
>

Good is such a relative thing. If I'm good, then what is Pablo Veron?

> To me, a good dancer should be able to make virtually any-and-every
> allowance for the music, the partner, the space, the floor, and the
> atmosphere in the room. This is equally true for followers and leaders.
>

Uh, not so. I will say that every good partner I have ever had has felt
different, but they all have felt right.

There are allowances I refuse to make in any way shape or form.
Partners that put their weight on me see themselves disposed of
unceremoniously. The accomodation for that is sticking my right hand
into their right armpit and holding them up a bit off the ground so that
I can take their weight off my shoulder and onto my legs. Of course if
they weigh 180 lbs, that's impossible.

> Can you dance Tango to Pink Floyd?

Pink Floyd isn't tango music. Be definition, whatever you do with Pink
Floyd isn't tango, is it?

> Can you dance on a rough concrete floor or gravel?

If you can pivot on a floor like that without tearing the ligaments in
your knees, more power to you.

> Can you dance with someone who has no timing?

If you're not with the music it ceases to be dance. Interesting
tango-derived movements with nice background music.

> Can you dance in sandals or with someone who is?
>
>

OK, a willingness to sacrifice some connection with the floor at times
doesn't take you out of the boundaries of tango.

> I would think good dancers would enjoy themselves under any circumstances.
>

Uh, no. I've seen too many people universally regarded as good dancers
not having fun with their students or at tourist milongas dancing with
foreigners to build business. Once you become aware of their nuances of
expression, you can tell when they're on the floor for another reason
than fun.

> A good dancer should also make the dance safe for their partner and everyone
> around them.
>

Agreed.

> I would hope good dancers would want to spread the wealth of their skill and
> get out on the floor, most especially with someone inexperienced.
>
>

The practica is the right place for that. I would hope that all good
dancers are still going to practicas and spending a bit of time with
newer dancers.

> The 'Good Dancer' snob mentality is not exclusive to tango. I have seen
> self-proclaimed 'good dancers' in virtually every one of the 15-or-so dance
> forms I have experienced in the last 8 years, including most folk dances,
> salsa, ballroom (the worst offenders) and swing.
>

It might not be "snob" that you see, but a simple selfishness. When you
alter your dance to accommodate someone's bad habits, it can take a
while for your normal dance to reassert itself. Meanwhile, your partner
is going, "Hey, what happened to this guy?" Dancing with a lot of
newbies will hose your dance in a matter of weeks, as your
accommodations of unskilled dancers becomes a matter of habit.

Now that I have moved to Minneapolis from Iowa, I am glad that I have a
higher level of dancer available to me.

> But it always upsets me to see eager new people turned away from those 'good
> dancers' who know how to dance.
>

"Eager newpeople" I understand. The place for them is the practica.
When they have some basic skills in place, the milonga is a more
welcoming place. Of course, in many smaller communities, milongas have
a way of becoming practicas, and that's OK too.

Christopher